Determing Size - Again

[Manzano808]

Arrgh! Guestimating the size of final project/file is insanity personified. That said, after so many attempts I am just beginning to figure it out. It has caused us to have to purchase a few dual layer discs where I've blown it.

Ok, I've read hours and hours about how you can use compression to determine final size (can it fit unto single layer, etc.?). But I have also seen guides which do speak about resolution. Wouldn't this be an option or do you simply focus on compression, audio type, and bitrate and stick with 720x480?

I suspect it may all depend upon your project?
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Project Examples, and what are the best settings for:

1. Copy VHS tapes (movies) onto DVD:
I've read where the ideal res would be 640x480 as this is supposed to be "True 4:3". But I cannot see where VS9 has that as any option. I can't find it. Seems from 704x480 it drops way down to 352x480. Would using 704x480 be close enough to 640x480? Wouldn't that help to decrease the file size? Surely also you wouldn't need to have such high compression as 8,000? BTW, the ATI MMC software offers 640x480 as a choice. Which is better?

Settings for 2 hours onto 1 Single Layer DVD?
Settings for 4 hours onto 1 Single Layer DVD?
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2. Capture Cable TV programs and burn to DVD:
Surely you don't need to have the same settings for different content. Say you are capturing cartoons for children vs something from National Geographic where you want a better res and quality?

A: Children's Cartoons (lower quality?):
Settings for 2 hours onto 1 Single Layer DVD
Settings for 4 hours onto 1 Single Layer DVD

B: Wildlife Programs (higher quality?):
Settings for 2 hours onto 1 Single Layer DVD
Settings for 4 hours onto 1 Single Layer DVD
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I guess what i'm asking is what is the best way to control size but not decrease the quality too much with the above project types?

Receiving the above settings ideas from you Pros out there would be a blessing, meanwhile I'll check out the neat link to the estimator that Trevor gave in one of the threads.
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Examples where i've blown it:

1. Captured important family (VHS) video but ended up with a huge MPEG file (6GB+).

2. Captured program from cable tv (original 1948 version of Oliver Twist) and it ended up 6.36GBs!! Not sure on runtime.

Would DVD Shrink be the solution to get what I've done onto a single layer dvd or would it be better to re-render through VS9/MF4 using lower compression? Which would be better quality when finished. I have rendered a large file from 7,000 to 5000 and noticed the sharpness disappeared considerably but it did decrease file size . It seems far more noticable than when you compress an audio mpg music file smaller. Or is it just me?

Hopefully my profile system settings updated correctly. In case not:
ASUS P4800E-Deluxe, 3.2GHZ P4, 1GB RAM, ATI/AIW 9800 Pro Video/capture card. WD Special Edition Caviar HHDs (PATA)

Thanks for any help on this!

[jchunter]

If you want to burn DVDs stick to a frame size of 720x480 (NTSC). If your source video is good quality and want quality DVDs, keep the video bitrate at or above 8000kbps. If your source video is VHS tape you can drop the bitrate to 4000 kbps because that source is lower quality.

I have never seen a family video that couldn't use some serious editing to control the size.

I always keep projects short (10 - 20 minutes) and make a short video file. Then when burning, I can add as many video files as necessary to bring the overall size to 4 GB. Don't try to squeeze any more space out of a single layer DVD.

This also makes a much better DVD Menu because each video file can have a top level menu with its own submenus.

[Manzano808]

I have never seen a family video that couldn't use some serious editing to control the size.

Thanks for the input jchunter! Yes, I was quite AMAZED when I see how much hdd space you need for these projects. Also, the complexity of this Technology is mind boggling. I thought this would be simple. It's neither easy, nor simple.

Thanks Again!

[rwindeyer]

A couple of extra thoughts:

Certainly stick with the frame size, as jchunter said. As you have noticed, if you save to mpeg format and then re-render to a different bitrate, you can lose quality. This is because mpeg is a "lossy" format - the more times you re-render it the more quality you will lose.

(Personal preference) When working with video - including capturing from VHS - I save to DV format. Takes huge amounts of disc space, but the quality is retained. Then you consider how much to compress it for the DVD creation.

As a guide, consider working with a single jpeg that you want to save. A program like Photoshop will ask if you want it high. medium or low quality (on a scale of 1 to 10). High quality jpegs have more detail, you may not actually be able to tell the difference, and the file size is much larger. Now consider how much data transfer has to happen (bitrate) if the computer is "reading" 29.97 jpegs per second. High quality = big file size = high bitrate = less video per disc.

If your source video is from a digital camera, I suggest keeping the bitrate high. From VHS capture, the signal isn't that great anyway, and there is no advantage in moving the bitrate above 4000; you will get 2 hours video on a single layer DVD comfortably.

Hope that helps a bit.