Save As Still Image Problem

soccerman · Post by **soccerman** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:29 pm

I am using VS8 to capture footage of my football team's matches as an AVI file (DV Type 1, PAL, 720 x 576, Lower Field First, 4:3, DV Audio PAL, 48,000khz 16 Bit Stereo...but with 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering' un-checked).
I like to use the occasional still image from the captured footage in my final edit, so under Preferences-Edit Tab I have 'Best' for Resampling Quality and 'Keep Aspect Ratio' for Image Resampling Option.
On the Preferences-Capture Tab I have 'Bitmap' for Captured Still Image Save Format and I have checked the Image Capture Deinterlace box...as the still-image shots are 'jittery' if that box is left unchecked.

When I am viewing and editing the captured footage in VS8 everything is fine and looks normal.
I then go to Share - Create Video File - Same As Project Settings and render a finished AVI file. However, on viewing the finished AVI file, the picture is slightly 'squashed' vertically/widened horizontally. Not by much, but enough for all my players to comment that they didn't realise they had put on a few pounds in weight !!!

It is fairly obvious that the still-images are conflicting with the normal footage in some way during the rendering process of the finished AVI file, so I have tried experimenting with different settings for the still images but without solving the problem so far.
In fact when I check the 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering' box under File-Properties, the finished AVI file comes out with all my titles enlarged by one point and out of position, which seems really bizarre !
I am reluctant to keep experimenting as it involves too much re-editing and re-rendering, so I'm hoping somebody knows which setting I have got 'wrong'.

Maybe this problem is particular to VS8 and has been solved in VS9 ?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:09 pm

In File > Preferences > Edit, what have you selected as the Image Resampling Option -- Keep aspect ratio (which I think is what is required) or Fit to Project Size? At any rate, if you have selected one of these, try the other...

soccerman · Post by **soccerman** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:38 pm

Yes, I have been selecting 'Keep Aspect Ratio' as that is what always seems to be recommended in various guidelines I have read for editing using Video Studio....albeit written by people using NTSC instead of PAL. Maybe that has something to do with it ?

Anyway, I will try using 'Fit To Project Size' on my next project (which I will be doing early next week) and I'll reply here when it's completed.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:30 pm

Hi

There are two options to capturing still images.

One from Clip mode and the other from Project.

Use the project mode,

Set Preferences to ‘Fit to Project’ when capturing stills from the timeline

Tools ---- ‘Save Current Frame as Image.’

Trevor

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:51 pm

Soccerman,
You have set your project preference to Keep Aspect Ratio, and this is proper. However, when you create your video file you have unchecked Use Non-Square pixels. This is incorrect because pixels in the wacky world of TV land are, for hysterical, historical reasons, non-square. You will really see this when you do widescreen videos, where the 720 horizontal pixels of the 4:3 aspect ratio video frame are stretched out to 16:9 aspect ratio. AFAIK, only a PC monitor uses square pixels.

BTW, if you use Fit to Project in wide screen, your wife will seem to have gained 50 lbs. and you will be in deep trouble...

soccerman · Post by **soccerman** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:08 pm

Thanks for these tips, and I will give them a try.
However, as I say, when I check 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering', the finished AVI file plays back with all my titles enlarged by one point and out of position, over both still and moving images. When I un-check 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering' this doesn't happen and the titles render properly.
Also, checking or unchecking 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering' still doesn't solve the problem regarding the 'widened' footage on the finished AVI file.

BTW, the finished AVI file appears 'widened' whether I am playing it back on a normal TV set (having recorded it onto Mini-DV via firewire), or on my laptop/PC.

As I am not using widescreen, I will try using 'Fit To Project' next (and leaving 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering' unchecked).

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:42 pm

Soccerman,
I have never experienced the "widening" problem. I would suggest that somewhere in the overall process (from capture through burn) your properties are inconsistent. BTW, why not create an Mpeg2 video file directly from the project timeline? You will need this for your DVD, anyway. Maybe the widening problem will disappear...

Deinterlacing? A still image has never been interlaced - so why would deinterlacing affect it at all? Flickering usually signifies a field order problem. You are capturing DV, so you should capture, edit, create video file, and burn with Lower Field First. The still images should work in fine in this field order.

It is also possible there are bugs in the PAL version that don't affect NTSC users but I can't help you with that.

soccerman · Post by **soccerman** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:58 am

Unfortunately, the 'widening' problem does not disappear when I create an mpeg2 file from the timeline for my DVD's.
Also, for DV capture, editing & file creation, I have always used Lower Field First.

When I first started using Video Studio some years ago now, I left the Image Capture De-Interlace box unchecked and the still images jittered on the finished avi (and mpeg) files. I have therefore always checked the box thereafter, so maybe possible bugs in the PAL version on earlier versions have since been fixed...but maybe not on VS8, which I am still using ?

I will give it a try anyway, and thanks for the tip.

BTW, when I say the picture is 'widened' on the finished avi file, by that I mean only the action footage. The actual still-frame clips appear to be of a more correct dimension, and indeed when I go to Windows Explorer and open up the saved bitmap still images in other programs (for use on websites and video/dvd inserts), they also seem to be the right dimensions.

As I say, it is not all that obvious when viewing the finished avi files and maybe some VS users are also experiencing the same problem but haven't noticed anything untoward.
As an example, our centre-half is 6 foot 4 inches tall on the original footage, but on the finished item he has shrunk to 6 foot 3 inches and put on half a stone in weight !!
It is roughly that sort of ratio.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:09 pm

Hi Soccerman
I can only agree with Jhunter when he says (I would suggest that somewhere in the overall process (from capture through burn your properties are inconsistent)

Give us some figures to look at!

After capturing your footage, with the video in the timeline, right click and select properties.
These should be your video clip / capture properties.----What are they?

After Share Create Video File a thumbnail of the new video is placed in the library, right click and select properties.
These should be the new rendered clip properties---What are they?

I tried a few image captures and appeared to get better quality using Tools / Save current Frame as Image.
Are you using this option?

Trevor

soccerman · Post by **soccerman** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:17 pm

Sorry for the late reply, but I have now done various experiments on this over the Christmas period and it looks like 'Fit To Project Size' for still-frame images (with the Image Capture De-Interlace' box checked) and checking the box for 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering' is the necessary combination and appears to have solved the problem.
When I had previously tried checking the 'Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering' box, I had always used 'Keep Aspect Ratio', so maybe it was that which caused the incorrect dimensions on the finished AVI file.

I am still getting this strange problem with the font sizes enlarging by one on my saved titles once they have been rendered though (although this doesn't happen every time).
John, I think that could well be a bug in the PAL version as you say.

For Trevor's information, my capture properties and my new rendered clip properties have always been consistent as I always check that with each project.
Also, I have always found it a bit tricky scrolling through in Project Mode to cue up and save still images the way you have mentioned. I find it easier to use Clip-Save As Still Image while I am watching, pausing and editing the footage.

kebrinton · Post by **kebrinton** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:20 pm

Seems like you've ironed out the problem before I could toss in my absolutely essential two-cents' worth.

When I "saved current frame" and discovered that my daughter had subtly put quite a few pounds onto her short frame, I took the images to Adobe Photoshop Elements and experimented till I found that a 10% correction was needed: from 100% image height to 110%. That made her look normal again.

It was only later that good advice from the forum taught me how to avoid the glitch in the first place.

soccerman · Post by **soccerman** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:08 pm

I must admit though that I am still not 100% sure that everything is now correct with these alterations.
I am waiting for the players who initially complained to see the comparisons first !

Where you say 'good advice from the forum taught me how to avoid the glitch in the first place', was that advice the same as on this thread ?

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:08 pm

soccerman wrote:For Trevor's information, my capture properties and my new rendered clip properties have always been consistent as I always check that with each project.
Also, I have always found it a bit tricky scrolling through in Project Mode to cue up and save still images the way you have mentioned. I find it easier to use Clip-Save As Still Image while I am watching, pausing and editing the footage.

Hi soccerman

Once you have identified the frame to be copied, you can either select clip or the project playback.

VS will revert to the same frame.

If you click ‘Project’ adjacent to the start button you can ‘Save current frame as image’
If you click ‘Clip’’ you will ‘Save as still image’

Each one may be a different size.

Try it using the ulead smiling lady (V15)

The difference in size is normally small but if working with 16:9 can be quite large.

Be aware of the difference, each has its own use.

Hope this helps

Trevor