I start by saying I've tried to look through earlier posts, but I'm not very conversant with video and audio standards, codecs, etc so this problem may have already been answered by other posts without my understanding why. If so I apologise.
Problem started this week when I loaded a new, full version of VS9 - I'd previously had VS6. And just before that I'd upgraded my XP Home Edition with SP2 (which automatically upgraded Windows MediaPlayer from WM9 to WM10).
Problem is
If I open an old VS6 project in VS9 and do a "Create Video" specifying "PAL DVD 4:3", this appears to work OK and the playback in VS9 is fine. However if I try to play this in WM10 the system says it connects to the internet and then tries, but fails, to download a codec (doesn't say which). WM10 then plays the video fine but there is no sound. WM10 File-Properties on the file shows
Audio codec : -
Video codec : Ligos MPEG Video Decoder
But if play an mpeg created from the same project by the old VS6 (as a PAL DVD), then it plays OK in WM10. WM10 File-Properties this time shows
Audio codec : InterVideo Audio Decoder
Video codec : InterVideo Video Decoder
The VS9 generated file is also 50% larger than the one created by VS6, so I assume that indeed there are different codecs (or something else I don't understand) in use in VS9.
And to add further to my confusion, both files play OK in InterVideo WinDVD.
Can anyone tell me what is going on, please?
And is there a way to overcome the issue and allow me to use WM10 on VS9 PAL-DVD-4:3 mpegs?
Help gratefully received.
Ron
VideoStudio9 & MediaPlayer10 problems with audio
Moderator: Ken Berry
Hi Ron,
from what you describe, it sounds like Media Player is missing an audio codec.
Personally, I prefer to use "Media Player Classic" which comes with "Real Alternative". It's a nice cut down player that can display some useful statistics. You might try it if you don't like programs keeping tracks on what you're doing and sending you banner ads, connecting to the net when you don't know it, etc... (end of rant!)
Regarding the PAL MPEG-2 file created by VS9 being 50% larger... it may not be a codec issue but rather related to your project properties.
What is your source material and its properties? (MPEG-2? AVI?)
What are the file properties of the MPEG-2 file generated by VS6?
What are the file properties of the MPEG-2 file generated by VS9?
from what you describe, it sounds like Media Player is missing an audio codec.
Personally, I prefer to use "Media Player Classic" which comes with "Real Alternative". It's a nice cut down player that can display some useful statistics. You might try it if you don't like programs keeping tracks on what you're doing and sending you banner ads, connecting to the net when you don't know it, etc... (end of rant!)
Regarding the PAL MPEG-2 file created by VS9 being 50% larger... it may not be a codec issue but rather related to your project properties.
What is your source material and its properties? (MPEG-2? AVI?)
What are the file properties of the MPEG-2 file generated by VS6?
What are the file properties of the MPEG-2 file generated by VS9?
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
Hi 2Dogs,
I've downloaded Media Player Classic, and the VS9 generated file plays OK ie with sound.
Re your questions
Source material is the AVI files captured by VS6.
VS6 file was created using the VS6 default PAL-DVD template, which is
Field Order A
24 bits, 720x576, 25 fps
Video data rate : Variable (Max 6000 kbps)
Audio data rate : 224 kbps
Layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo
VS9 file was created using the VS9 default PAL-DVD 4:3 template, which is
Lower Field first
24 bits, 720x576, 25 fps
Video data rate : Variable (Max 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 hz, Stereo
So, I don't really know what all these mean, but it seems that the max Video data rate is different, and the Audio is definitely different.
However, what it really means, I don't know - but maybe you do, and it tells you something which you can interpret for me?
I shall probably use Media Player Classic, but I'm just curious now to learn a bit more about what all the above settings mean. because I'd not had any trouble before, and I'd never bothered to try anything other than the Ulead supplied templates before.
Ron
I've downloaded Media Player Classic, and the VS9 generated file plays OK ie with sound.
Re your questions
Source material is the AVI files captured by VS6.
VS6 file was created using the VS6 default PAL-DVD template, which is
Field Order A
24 bits, 720x576, 25 fps
Video data rate : Variable (Max 6000 kbps)
Audio data rate : 224 kbps
Layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo
VS9 file was created using the VS9 default PAL-DVD 4:3 template, which is
Lower Field first
24 bits, 720x576, 25 fps
Video data rate : Variable (Max 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 hz, Stereo
So, I don't really know what all these mean, but it seems that the max Video data rate is different, and the Audio is definitely different.
However, what it really means, I don't know - but maybe you do, and it tells you something which you can interpret for me?
I shall probably use Media Player Classic, but I'm just curious now to learn a bit more about what all the above settings mean. because I'd not had any trouble before, and I'd never bothered to try anything other than the Ulead supplied templates before.
Ron
Hi Ron,
as you noticed, the output formats are different, and that explains the filesize differences. The VS9 output should be slightly higher quality, since it uses a maximum variable bitrate of 8000 kbps as opposed to the 6000 kbps previously used by VS6. There's some evidence that the implementation of variable bitrates is different in VS9, too, which might cause even a 6000 kbps max variable bitrate file generated by VS9 to be larger than one created by VS6. I would be interested to know if that was the case if you care to run a comparison once you've got to grips with the programs.
You can vary the bitrate according to how much video you want to fit onto a DVD. If you have a project with a one hour duration and a single layer DVD, you can use 8000 kbps. The simplest way to do this is just to select the "PAL DVD" output option in VS9.
If you have a longer project, you might have to use a lower bitrate, say 6000 kbps.
Different audio options are available. The format on your camcorder is probably LPCM. My understanding is that this is an uncompressed format, so it takes up more filespace. If the highest audio quality is important for your project, then using LPCM in your MPEG-2 output file is fine.
If, on the other hand, you want to squeeze a slightly longer project onto a DVD or increase the video quality to the maximum possible, you can use MPEG audio. Although this is classified as a "lossy" compressed format, to all intents and purposes you won't notice any differrence unless you're playing the DVD hooked up to a decent HiFi and you have the ears of a 20 year old! I kid myself I can tell the difference but I've never done a double blind test.
If you do wish to use MPEG audio, you have to use the "Custom" option in the "Share >> Create Video File" step, and hit the "Options" button, and in the "Compression" tab of the Video Save Options dialogue box that comes up, select "PAL DVD". There will be a box below with 3 audio format options - MPEG audio, LPCM audio, (the default) and Dolby Digital audio. The last format is normally used with NTSC DVD's, so you should not normally use it in PAL land.
With LPCM, there are no settings you can change, but with MPEG audio, you can choose between mono, stereo and joint stereo. Ordinarily you'd go for stereo. You can also select an audio bitrate, from 64 kbps to 384 kbps, with a default value of 224 kbps. the default is fine, but you might want to use more. (I would add that I'm in NTSC land, so your options might come up in different order)
Hope that helps - but beware, video editing is a great thief of time!
as you noticed, the output formats are different, and that explains the filesize differences. The VS9 output should be slightly higher quality, since it uses a maximum variable bitrate of 8000 kbps as opposed to the 6000 kbps previously used by VS6. There's some evidence that the implementation of variable bitrates is different in VS9, too, which might cause even a 6000 kbps max variable bitrate file generated by VS9 to be larger than one created by VS6. I would be interested to know if that was the case if you care to run a comparison once you've got to grips with the programs.
You can vary the bitrate according to how much video you want to fit onto a DVD. If you have a project with a one hour duration and a single layer DVD, you can use 8000 kbps. The simplest way to do this is just to select the "PAL DVD" output option in VS9.
If you have a longer project, you might have to use a lower bitrate, say 6000 kbps.
Different audio options are available. The format on your camcorder is probably LPCM. My understanding is that this is an uncompressed format, so it takes up more filespace. If the highest audio quality is important for your project, then using LPCM in your MPEG-2 output file is fine.
If, on the other hand, you want to squeeze a slightly longer project onto a DVD or increase the video quality to the maximum possible, you can use MPEG audio. Although this is classified as a "lossy" compressed format, to all intents and purposes you won't notice any differrence unless you're playing the DVD hooked up to a decent HiFi and you have the ears of a 20 year old! I kid myself I can tell the difference but I've never done a double blind test.
If you do wish to use MPEG audio, you have to use the "Custom" option in the "Share >> Create Video File" step, and hit the "Options" button, and in the "Compression" tab of the Video Save Options dialogue box that comes up, select "PAL DVD". There will be a box below with 3 audio format options - MPEG audio, LPCM audio, (the default) and Dolby Digital audio. The last format is normally used with NTSC DVD's, so you should not normally use it in PAL land.
With LPCM, there are no settings you can change, but with MPEG audio, you can choose between mono, stereo and joint stereo. Ordinarily you'd go for stereo. You can also select an audio bitrate, from 64 kbps to 384 kbps, with a default value of 224 kbps. the default is fine, but you might want to use more. (I would add that I'm in NTSC land, so your options might come up in different order)
Hope that helps - but beware, video editing is a great thief of time!
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
Hi 2Dogs
Thanks for the reply.
Re file sizes
VS6 generated to default VS6 PAL DVD mpg file is 221,654 KB
VS9 generated to default VS9 PAL DVD mpg file is 332,010 KB (ie about +50% as I said earlier)
VS9 generated to a template I set up to match the VS6 PAL DVD settings - file is 224,829 KB ( a little larger than VS6 but not much).
Also re the audio format on my capture device - it's PCM, not LPCM ??
(a SONY DCR TRV110E Digital8 camcorder).
I guess I'm going to have to play around with various settings.
I don 't have a DVD burner (yet , but I'm hoping Santa's listening
) My main use of VS9 is to create short video clips to support lectures. I use them from my PC via a multimedia projector on to a 6ft screen - so I want a reasonably good resolution (for use with the projector) but compressed (because I don't have limitless disk space). Audio I'm not too bothered with, as long as I can hear it !!
But to go back to my original problem with WS10, it seems as though WS10 is missing a codec, but that other software eg MPClassic, have it.
So does that mean that codecs are an integrated part of the player - I'd thought that they went into a communable area on the system somewhere - but as I said - I'm easily confused ?
Anyone know if its possible to
a) find out which codec WS10 is missing, and
b) how to get it included for WS10
Thanks for all the great help
Ron
Thanks for the reply.
Re file sizes
VS6 generated to default VS6 PAL DVD mpg file is 221,654 KB
VS9 generated to default VS9 PAL DVD mpg file is 332,010 KB (ie about +50% as I said earlier)
VS9 generated to a template I set up to match the VS6 PAL DVD settings - file is 224,829 KB ( a little larger than VS6 but not much).
Also re the audio format on my capture device - it's PCM, not LPCM ??
(a SONY DCR TRV110E Digital8 camcorder).
I guess I'm going to have to play around with various settings.
I don 't have a DVD burner (yet , but I'm hoping Santa's listening
) My main use of VS9 is to create short video clips to support lectures. I use them from my PC via a multimedia projector on to a 6ft screen - so I want a reasonably good resolution (for use with the projector) but compressed (because I don't have limitless disk space). Audio I'm not too bothered with, as long as I can hear it !!But to go back to my original problem with WS10, it seems as though WS10 is missing a codec, but that other software eg MPClassic, have it.
So does that mean that codecs are an integrated part of the player - I'd thought that they went into a communable area on the system somewhere - but as I said - I'm easily confused ?
Anyone know if its possible to
a) find out which codec WS10 is missing, and
b) how to get it included for WS10
Thanks for all the great help
Ron
-
Creatively Challenged
dogron-
(You're referring to "WS10" and I'm thinking you're talking about "Media Player 10, right?)
My MediaPlayer10 codecs got out of whack once and I just ended up downloading and installing it again via Microsoft. (If I remember correctly, you can't "uninstall" it anymore after XP service pack 2.) I believe I used XP's Contol Panel Add/Remove Programs to "roll it back" to Media Player 9 and then upgraded back to MP10 via the Microsoft site, but I'm not sure. I either did that or I just plopped the re-installation right over the old one. You might want to backup any skins first, I don't remember if reinstalling wiped out the skins. Sorry about being so vague, but it was a while ago and of course I didn't make any notes.
If you want to have a look at what MediaPlayer10 is seeing for codecs, you can go to Microsoft.com/downloads and do a search for "DECCHECKSetup.exe" (without quotes). That is a little Microsoft utility which you can download and run that will tell you what codecs are installed and whether or not they are compatable with MediaPlayer. It will let you pick one for Media Player to use (using the "select as preferred" button within it). I don't know (or remember) how thorough the utility is. I believe I tried it when I was having my issue and then ended up just re-installing MediaPlayer anyway, but you might want to have a go at it. It's kind of interesting anyway.
(You're referring to "WS10" and I'm thinking you're talking about "Media Player 10, right?)
My MediaPlayer10 codecs got out of whack once and I just ended up downloading and installing it again via Microsoft. (If I remember correctly, you can't "uninstall" it anymore after XP service pack 2.) I believe I used XP's Contol Panel Add/Remove Programs to "roll it back" to Media Player 9 and then upgraded back to MP10 via the Microsoft site, but I'm not sure. I either did that or I just plopped the re-installation right over the old one. You might want to backup any skins first, I don't remember if reinstalling wiped out the skins. Sorry about being so vague, but it was a while ago and of course I didn't make any notes.
If you want to have a look at what MediaPlayer10 is seeing for codecs, you can go to Microsoft.com/downloads and do a search for "DECCHECKSetup.exe" (without quotes). That is a little Microsoft utility which you can download and run that will tell you what codecs are installed and whether or not they are compatable with MediaPlayer. It will let you pick one for Media Player to use (using the "select as preferred" button within it). I don't know (or remember) how thorough the utility is. I believe I tried it when I was having my issue and then ended up just re-installing MediaPlayer anyway, but you might want to have a go at it. It's kind of interesting anyway.
Hi Ron,
Re the codecs, I can't honestly add anything much to what Creatively Challenged had to say, other than Media Player seems more apt to play up than most programs of that sort that I've used.
Thanks for that info!Re file sizes
VS6 generated to default VS6 PAL DVD mpg file is 221,654 KB
VS9 generated to default VS9 PAL DVD mpg file is 332,010 KB (ie about +50% as I said earlier)
VS9 generated to a template I set up to match the VS6 PAL DVD settings - file is 224,829 KB ( a little larger than VS6 but not much).
Re the codecs, I can't honestly add anything much to what Creatively Challenged had to say, other than Media Player seems more apt to play up than most programs of that sort that I've used.
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
-
Ken Berry
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I can endorse CreativelyChallenged's recommendation of the DECCHECKSetup.exe utility. I had been having a similar problem with (W)MP10 and ran the utility. It noted that I had an old Cyberlink PowerDVD codec, which WMP 10 would normally use, but that it was out of date for WMP 10. That was a good excuse to upgrade to the current PowerDVD (which in any case, I prefer to use to WMP10 for videos), and since then WMP has worked like a charm.
Ken Berry
In case this means anything, I ran the DECCHECKSetup utility and it comes up with the following (none is shown as "Preferred Decoder")
I've reinstalled WMP10 and the result is the same. I've reinstalled the WM9Codecs and the result is the same.
Mean anything ?
Ron
Code: Select all
MP10 Compatible Decoder Vendor Decoder Filename Decoder Version MCE Compatible
X Ligos MPEG Video Decoder lmpgvd.ax 2.0.0.96 X
! Intervideo Video Decoder ivivideo.ax 4.0.11.30 X
X Ulead DVD Video decoder 2 ulDVDVideo.ax 2.0.0.19 X
X Ulead MPEG Video Decoder uldsmpeg.ax 1.0.0.73 X
Mean anything ?
Ron
-
Creatively Challenged
Looks like you don't have a workable decoder installed.
The "X"s indicate they are not compatible with MP10, and I have the same X's on the Ulead decoders.
The "!" I believe means the decoder is close but there is an issue with it. In your case with the Intervideo I think it means your WinDVD version is too old for MP10 to use properly. I use WinDVD also, and I'm on the current version of 7. I have the same decoder file showing as you do, but it is decoder version 6.0.6.128, and it is selected as my preferred decoder with a nice green checkmark beside it instead of "!".
I don't know where the Ligos comes from but it doesn't look like an option.
This is about where my codec knowledge ends. I'm looking at your original post where you say the VS9 project shows MP10 is trying to use the Ligos and failing, and it's using the Intervideo codec for the VS6 project and working. I don't know if that's caused by using VS9 instead of VS6, or maybe by using LPCM Audio in your VS9 project, or neither. Maybe someone else here can narrow that down. You could try using a non-LPCM audio option within the VS9.
The mpeg codecs are to be puchased, either by themselves or by purchasing a program which includes them, such as WinDVD. I'm fairly certain that MP10 itself doesn't actually come with any. I'm reluctant to tell you that you need to buy something as I'm not sure it would solve your problem or that it's truly necessary. What you might want to do is go to the Microsoft support forum for Media Player 10, they certainly are more familiar with the specifics of MP10. There are also links within the Microsoft Media Player / Multimedia description pages where you can buy individual codecs for around 20USD I think. Quite possibly you could update your WinDVD instead and get the job done, if you like and use WinDVD. At any rate I'd go to the Microsoft forum before you spend any cash to be sure you're not buying something you don't need, unless someone here who is much more informed than I am can be more specific.
Sorry to leave you hanging, but that's about as far as I can get you. My user name selection of "Creatively Challenged" was no accident.
The "X"s indicate they are not compatible with MP10, and I have the same X's on the Ulead decoders.
The "!" I believe means the decoder is close but there is an issue with it. In your case with the Intervideo I think it means your WinDVD version is too old for MP10 to use properly. I use WinDVD also, and I'm on the current version of 7. I have the same decoder file showing as you do, but it is decoder version 6.0.6.128, and it is selected as my preferred decoder with a nice green checkmark beside it instead of "!".
I don't know where the Ligos comes from but it doesn't look like an option.
This is about where my codec knowledge ends. I'm looking at your original post where you say the VS9 project shows MP10 is trying to use the Ligos and failing, and it's using the Intervideo codec for the VS6 project and working. I don't know if that's caused by using VS9 instead of VS6, or maybe by using LPCM Audio in your VS9 project, or neither. Maybe someone else here can narrow that down. You could try using a non-LPCM audio option within the VS9.
The mpeg codecs are to be puchased, either by themselves or by purchasing a program which includes them, such as WinDVD. I'm fairly certain that MP10 itself doesn't actually come with any. I'm reluctant to tell you that you need to buy something as I'm not sure it would solve your problem or that it's truly necessary. What you might want to do is go to the Microsoft support forum for Media Player 10, they certainly are more familiar with the specifics of MP10. There are also links within the Microsoft Media Player / Multimedia description pages where you can buy individual codecs for around 20USD I think. Quite possibly you could update your WinDVD instead and get the job done, if you like and use WinDVD. At any rate I'd go to the Microsoft forum before you spend any cash to be sure you're not buying something you don't need, unless someone here who is much more informed than I am can be more specific.
Sorry to leave you hanging, but that's about as far as I can get you. My user name selection of "Creatively Challenged" was no accident.
Thanks Creatively Challenged,
I must admit I too was surprised to see the two Ulead codecs mentioned on my list - in fact I even tried reinstalling VS9, but stilll the same result.
It seems to only be a problem for WMP10 with the default Audio settings for the VS9 PAL DVD output files. If I change the Audio from LPCM to MPEG Audio, then it seems to work fine. So I'll either do that, or use Media Player Classic which doesn't appear to be so picky as WM10.
Ron
I must admit I too was surprised to see the two Ulead codecs mentioned on my list - in fact I even tried reinstalling VS9, but stilll the same result.
It seems to only be a problem for WMP10 with the default Audio settings for the VS9 PAL DVD output files. If I change the Audio from LPCM to MPEG Audio, then it seems to work fine. So I'll either do that, or use Media Player Classic which doesn't appear to be so picky as WM10.
Ron