Choppy video; Choppy audio; A work-around described

RalphTheExpert · Post by **RalphTheExpert** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:32 pm

I have seen many, many posts on many forums saying that the poster has choppy audio and/or choppy video problems.

The answers are usually complicated and unsatisfactory.

The problem is that it not clear if one is looking at a hardware or a software problem.

I have a Canon ZR85 camera. I plugged this into Ulead’s bundled Video Studio 6 as well as the trial version of Video Studio 9. I tried this camera on two different (quite fast) machines: a desktop and a pretty-fast Toshiba laptop.

I had the same problem on both machines. Choppy audio and video.

Here’s a procedure that works for me in the U.S. (NTSC). Be forewarned that the procedure adds (triples?) the amount of time and manual labor to the process of converting DV to a usable DVD.

If you are using Windows XP (I do not have a procedure for anything other than XP)

(1) Use Microsoft’s “free” Movie Maker to create an X.wmv file. X.wmv is not a file that VS9 can use to “scan for scenes” in the VS9 editor. You need to create an X.mpg to do that.
(2) Use the X.wmv file as the sole clip in a video in Visual Studio 9
(3) Play the file using Ulead or a media player. With luck, there will be no choppiness. This, I believe, will prove that there are no hardware issues.
(4) Use VS9 to create an X.mpg video file.
(4a) Click Share
(4b) Click Create Video File
(4c) Save type as MPEG File
(4d) Click Options…
(4d1) Click the General tab.
(4d2) Select “Lower field first” in “Frame type”
(4d3) Click the Compression tab
(4d4) Select “NTSC DVD” in “Media type”
(4d5) Specify 100 for "Quality".
(4d6) Check “Two pass encode”
(4e7) Set the “Video Rate” to “Variable 8000”
(4e8) Click OK
(5) Returning to the “Create Video File” dialog, name your file X (or whatever) to create X.mpg.
(6) You can then use X.mpg as a clip.

With luck, X.mpg will meet your needs.

Finally, I speculate that the problem is in the software encoder(s) used by VS6 and VS9. That is, the encoder is having problems converting smoothly between 30 fps (which is what I believe comes out of my video camera) and the 29.97 fps that NTSC uses. The small 0.03 fps difference is what, I speculate, is causing the choppiness.

2Dogs · Post by **2Dogs** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:38 am

Hi Ralph,

can I be the first to piss on your bonfire?

Most times people experience choppy video and audio due to setup problems, which are often resolved after the relevant information has been forced out of the complainant by the first couple of responders.

There are just so many factors that can go wrong that can cause capturing problems.

The most effective workflow, however, both from a reliability perspective and also as a way of giving you the greatest output options together with the best possible output video quality, is to capture to avi.

For a pc, this is a pretty stress-free thing for it to do, so long as you have reasonably up to date hard drives, and you can do it successfully with the humblest Celeron if you like. The cpu hardly feels a thing.

The wmv format is very different from both DV and MPEG-2. From my own tests, (admittedly only using the limited wmv formats found in video studio) I find that DV to wmv gives very good results considering the wmv file sizes, but transcoding wmv to MPEG-2 results in a noticeable quality loss.

By contrast, the oft repeated "Recommended Procedure" described in the big sticky at the top of the forum lays out what has proven to be the best solution for most users.

However, at the end of the day, if it works for you then what's up with that?

RalphTheExpert · Post by **RalphTheExpert** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:53 am

Feel free to piss on my bonfire.

I've tried the procedure in the sticky. At least for me, it doesn't work. It doesn't work on at least two machines and I'm probably going to try a third in the morning.

I'm frustrated that the Ulead software (and, it appears, other software) is unable to self-diagnose the problem.

When I capture to mpeg-1, no frames are dropped. There is no indication of a problem. Yet, clearly, there is a problem. That problem is exposed to the user an hour after the user starts capturing the mini-DV tape.

Why is it that a human can see and hear the choppiness but that the underlying software doesn't detect a problem?

If the CPU isn't fast enough to keep up, why can't the software tell the user, "Oops, I can't keep up. You need to do X, Y, and/or Z to reduce my load."?

The point of my procedure if to get acceptable (uh, fair) video and quite good audio quality. I wish I had a better procedure because the video quality really isn't as good as I'd like it ... but it is a lot better than jerky video and audio.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:04 am

Choppiness in video and/or audio on capture in DV format is almost invariably a problem associated with the fact that for some unknown reason, Ulead decided to use the Type 2 DV encoder as the default, when it should be Type 1. Type 2 captures the video and audio in separate streams (though it all appears in one file.) But only high-end users/professionals and a handful of programs actually ever require Type 2 DV. It also seems to 'stress' most computers, and particularly those which are not over-endowed with video editing-friendly resources. Changing to Type 1 Encoder (using the Options cogwheel icon on the Capture page) once you have chosen DV as the format, usually solves the choppiness problem immediately...

RalphTheExpert · Post by **RalphTheExpert** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:50 am

> Changing to Type 1 Encoder (using the Options cogwheel icon on the Capture page) ...

Ken,

Thanks for your reply.

Could I impose on you for instructions on how to set Ulead'S VS 6 SE DVD software so that the Type 1 encoder is selected?

The VS interface is not intuitive. Why isn't "Format" under the cog wheel? Why aren't all the user selectable options associated with capture in a single area?

I selected Type 1 in VS 9. I can see and hear the choppiness in the preview. I can see the time counter flicker as video is captured. I can see the same flickering once the clip has been captured and it is being replayed.

I then selected WMV in VS 9. I could see flickering and choppiness in the preview. The flickering of the time counter and the choppiness of playback does *not* occur on playback.

Thus, my recommendation to use MS's Movie Maker to capture to X.wmv may be unncessary. MS's Movie Maker does, though, have the advantage of allowing the user to turn off preview and audio. (Does VS 9 allow that? I can't find it if it does.)

Speaking of VS 6 (which came bundled with my1394 hardware), am I entitled to the upgrade price? I've seen different answers to that question.

2Dogs · Post by **2Dogs** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:46 pm

Hi Ralph,

if I might jump in on some of your points - I'm sure Ken will respond on stuff I may miss:

I can't advise on VS6 SE - I started out with 7SE Basic that came bundled with a cardbus firewire card and cable. I was able to try that program out on a Celeron 2600 laptop, along with Windows Movie Maker. Although I could capture MiniDV footage to avi, neither VS7 SE nor Movie Maker could output to MPEG-2, which caused me to move on initially to the VS7 trial.

RalphTheExpert wrote:The VS interface is not intuitive. Why isn't "Format" under the cog wheel? Why aren't all the user selectable options associated with capture in a single area?

I wholeheartedly agree on that one! The settings are all over the place in Video Studio, to the point where it makes you wonder if you've really adjusted them properly all the time. You do get used to it, but you shouldn't have to. I've tried other video editors that were better in that respect, but VS seems to give the best output and a fairly good set of features.

I selected Type 1 in VS 9. I can see and hear the choppiness in the preview. I can see the time counter flicker as video is captured. I can see the same flickering once the clip has been captured and it is being replayed.

VS is notorious for having poor quality preview. It's easy to think that the preview screen represents flawed output. I usually check the output in another program - my favourite being "Media Player Classic" that comes with "Real alternative", a freeware alternative to Real Player and Microsoft Media Player. Media Player Classic loads very quickly and isn't larded up with advertising, doesn't try to call home to get banner ads all the time, and it can show useful video statistics too.

I then selected WMV in VS 9. I could see flickering and choppiness in the preview. The flickering of the time counter and the choppiness of playback does *not* occur on playback.

So the problem with the wmv output at least was only in the preview window?

Thus, my recommendation to use MS's Movie Maker to capture to X.wmv may be unncessary. MS's Movie Maker does, though, have the advantage of allowing the user to turn off preview and audio. (Does VS 9 allow that? I can't find it if it does.)

You can't turn the preview off as far as I know, but you can certainly minimise its use of resources by choosing "Instant Playback" in the "General" tab of "File >> Preferences". This is only relevant to the edit rather than the capture step, though.

Speaking of VS 6 (which came bundled with my1394 hardware), am I entitled to the upgrade price? I've seen different answers to that question.

I wasn't able to use my bundled VS7 SE as the basis for an upgrade.

Next time you try capturing avi with VS9, make sure that you have the drop frame counter enabled. You do this by checking the "Show drop frame information" box in the "Capture" tab of "File >> Preferences".

Having recently read a recent comprehensive set of posts from alosada about MPEG-2 editing, and tired out another suggested freeware program called "Virtual Dub", all my editing from now on will be in avi, only output to MPEG-2 as the very last step and one time only!

I'd encourage you to give VS a bit more of a try, since there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to get it to work for you properly. You seem pretty willing to experiment with stuff.

Good luck, and sorry about the bonfire!

RalphTheExpert · Post by **RalphTheExpert** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:45 pm

[quote]So the problem with the wmv output at least was only in the preview window?
[/quote]

As far as I can tell.

[quote]
Having recently read a recent comprehensive set of posts from alosada about MPEG-2 editing, and tired out another suggested freeware program called "Virtual Dub", all my editing from now on will be in avi, only output to MPEG-2 as the very last step and one time only! [/quote]

Are other people seeing choppiness when capturing to AVI (i.e. DV)?

Ralph

RalphTheExpert · Post by **RalphTheExpert** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:46 pm

OK, it's obvious that I don't know how to quote other people's comments.

How does one do that on this forum?

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:55 pm

Hi
Your opening quotes should contain the posters name like

[quote="RalphTheExpert"]

Before posting hit the 'preview' adjacent to 'submit'

Trevor

2Dogs · Post by **2Dogs** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:15 pm

RalphTheExpert wrote:Are other people seeing choppiness when capturing to AVI (i.e. DV)?

Hi Ralph,

While I capture avi, I can watch the footage on my camcorders own LCD, but the VS preview screen isn't worth watching! Nothing wrong with the captured footage however.

I used to be a firm believer in the Ulead recommendation to disable write-caching on my capture drive, but having experimented following a recent thread I now don't bother with that. Making sure DMA is enabled, however, is important.

The only time I've suffered dropped frames was when I forgot to set an "always on" power profile on my pc that prevented the screen saver kicking in or the drives shutting down.

Quoting is a pain on this forum, and there are many smilies to choose from, but at least there are no ads and the posters seem like a good bunch !! - apart from that grouchy trevor andrew, that is!

mtalbotnz · Post by **mtalbotnz** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:20 pm

Hi

Yeah Im having issues with choppiness in AVI/DV format also, I just posted a question on it and have a response which Im going to try tonight

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=9240

Matthew