Help With VS9 Project Settings

Moderator: Ken Berry

maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Help With VS9 Project Settings

Post by maximus01can »

G'Day All

I've just upgraded from VS7 to VS9 and a friend gave me his Sony DVD Mini Camcorder to combine a couple mini discs to 1 DVD. I've transferred all the files from the camcorder to the HD and I imported a clip and checked the properties so I could match them up with the project settings. I've checked through the guides, but don't see anything obvious that pertains to this particular setup. So this is where I'm just a little confused as to the settings I need. Just wondering if someone could have a peek and give me a some pointers.

Clip properties
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos? ... ity=rFhtlc

Project Options "General Tab"
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos? ... ity=FrVljY

Project Options"Compression Tab"
This is the one I'm unsure of. Based on the clip it's properties are 448kbps and the max I can pick in this section is 384kbps. Am I missing something simple?
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos? ... ity=SGqSzq

Thanks for the Coaching. Getting these settings right to begin with will make things go much smoother

Cheers,
Max

Image
Last edited by maximus01can on Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by maximus01can »

No Ideas anyone?
User avatar
Ken Berry
Site Admin
Posts: 22481
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:36 pm
operating_system: Windows 11
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: Gigabyte B550M DS3H AC
processor: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
ram: 32 GB DDR4
Video Card: AMD RX 6600 XT
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1 TB SSD + 2 TB HDD
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Kogan 32" 4K 3840 x 2160
Corel programs: VS2022; PSP2023; DRAW2021; Painter 2022
Location: Levin, New Zealand

Post by Ken Berry »

I think you might have to explain your queries in words, rather then expect people to go to the site you gave links for, which requires people to then sign up (even though it's free). I gave up at that point.
Ken Berry
maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by maximus01can »

Crap!! Didn't know sign up was required just to view the pics.

Okay here's the clip properties in text.

File Format: NTSC DVD

Video:
MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First
24 Bits 720x480. 16:9
29.970fps
Variable Bit Rate(Max 9100kbps)

Audio:
Dolby digital audio 48,000 Hz, 2/0(L/R)
layer:none
Bit Rate 448kbps

This is the one that stumps me a little as I can't even go that high picking a bit rate when MPEG Format is chosen. Would I "check" the DVD-VR box and then pick "Stereo" or "Dual Channel" Havn't done this before, but would like to match the settings of the project to the clips.



Thanks,
Max







Max
maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by maximus01can »

any ideas?
Trevor Andrew

Post by Trevor Andrew »

Hi Max

I do not own a DVD camcorder and cannot comment on the project properties of the video file but I am aware that they are different to the standard video studio template.

Video Studios bit-rate limit appears to be 8000kbps for the Dvd Mpeg template.


I would edit the video file, adding transitions, titles, audio as required.

Then-----Share Create Video File-----to make a new Dvd-Mpeg2 file.

At this point you have to choose the video properties.

Select –Custom---

‘Save as type’ Mpeg files[*.mpg]

Options

Set the properties in the ‘Capture tab’ and General tab’ to match your video file with the exception of the bit-rate use 8000 kbps
and the audio to Digital Dolby at 256 kbps.

Render the project to a new video file. This will make a new file.

Use this file to burn your disc, make sure your project properties match the new file.

Hope this Helps

Trevor
maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by maximus01can »

Thanks for the help Treveor :oops: I'll give that a shot. I'm not actually capturing anything with VS9. So I'm guessing that creating this new file will just create another MPEG file and not create Video_TS and Audio_TS folders to be burned with Nero etc. So I'll have to render to get the MPEG-2 and then Render again for the DVD authoring and making of the Video_TS Audio_TS folders I like to use. Maybe if you look at this link it'll give you a little more visual info.

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=58466

Some screenshots there as attatchments. When I tick DVD-VS compliant box in the Video Studio 9 Project Options Compression Tab Settings, I get the option of "Dual Channel" or "Stereo" in the "audio type" pulldown. But I don't know if these apply to my clips. I'm guessing that has to do with DVD-Video Recorder(Set top DVD Recorders) which should be the same format as DVD mini discs as they can both be played on set top DVD players. Is there any substance to that thinking?

Thanks for the help,
Max
2Dogs
Advisor
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:33 am
Location: Katrinaland

Post by 2Dogs »

Although the Video Studio default value for high quality NTSC DVD is 8000kbps, the limit is 8264 kbps with LCPM audio, or 9800 kbps with compressed audio such as Dolby Digital.

You won't see those values enabled if you choose the "NTSC DVD" profile, but will get them if you go for "custom", set compression to "NTSC-DVD" and then set your values. With or without the DVD-VR compliant box checked, you should see the two maximum values mentioned above. Setting the compression to MPEG-2 instead will allow you up to 14000 kbps.

Checking the "DVD-VR Compliant" box will enable access to the different audio format options.

I think the DVD camcorder uses a wider range of bitrates in its variable bitrate than does Video Studio. There are some interesting posts on the specifics of VS's implementation of VBR encoding which demonstrate that there's not much "variable" in its VBR.

I don't know how VS handles the camcorder's own, "more variable" mpeg-2 footage, but if you can get it to smart render it, that would demonstrate that it can cope without having to re-encode it. When you save say a sample clip to a file with smart rendering working, the preview screen will be black during the smart render and it should happen at many times real time, depending on your system.

Most users are looking for about an hour of footage on a DVD5 disc, however, so 8000 kbps constant bitrate is commonly used. If you encode to the VBR in VS, you'll only be able to increase the maximum bitrate by 5% or so to result in the same file size as 8000 kbps constant bitrate.

By contrast, your DVD camcorder footage with its 9800kbps maximum probably takes up the same filespace as 8000 kbps CBR.
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by maximus01can »

Are you and Trevor agreeing, or saying something different. It looks as though the concensus is to use the custom setting, but that's where you and trevor's versions differ. Trevor is saying:
Options

Set the properties in the ‘Capture tab’ and General tab’ to match your video file with the exception of the bit-rate use 8000 kbps
and the audio to Digital Dolby at 256 kbps.

Render the project to a new video file. This will make a new file.

Use this file to burn your disc, make sure your project properties match the new file.
and you're saying:
You won't see those values enabled if you choose the "NTSC DVD" profile, but will get them if you go for "custom", set compression to "NTSC-DVD" and then set your values.
Not sure if you're saying the same as Trevor.

Thanks for the Input,
Max
2Dogs
Advisor
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:33 am
Location: Katrinaland

Post by 2Dogs »

Dear Max,

I apologise if I've managed to obfuscate the issue - I strayed onto one of my favourite preoccupations - video bitrates. I hope I can clear things up with this explanation.

You showed your file properties in your third post as follows:
Okay here's the clip properties in text.

File Format: NTSC DVD

Video:
MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First
24 Bits 720x480. 16:9
29.970fps
Variable Bit Rate(Max 9100kbps)

Audio:
Dolby digital audio 48,000 Hz, 2/0(L/R)
layer:none
Bit Rate 448kbps
to which Trevor responded:
Video Studios bit-rate limit appears to be 8000kbps for the Dvd Mpeg template.

I would edit the video file, adding transitions, titles, audio as required.

Then-----Share Create Video File-----to make a new Dvd-Mpeg2 file.

At this point you have to choose the video properties.

Select –Custom---

‘Save as type’ Mpeg files[*.mpg]

Options

Set the properties in the ‘Capture tab’ and General tab’ to match your video file with the exception of the bit-rate use 8000 kbps
and the audio to Digital Dolby at 256 kbps.
In my post, I pointed out the fact that Video Studio's NTSC-DVD video bitrate can be raised to a maximum of 8264 kbps if the audio track is using LCPM, or 9800 kbps if using compressed audio such as MPEG or Dolby digital.

What Trevor was suggesting was that you should render the whole project to a single MPEG-2 file, using the settings he suggested.

In my post, I speculated that the imported file format probably has a wider range of variable bitrate than Video Studio can CREATE, but it might be that Video Studio can actually successfully SmartRender the footage. I suggested that you could confirm this by test rendering a sample clip.

Trevor himself often posts the easiest way to achieve this - which is to insert the sample clip into a new, blank project. You should make sure you have the "Show message when inserting first video clip into the timeline" box checked in "File >> Preferences". Then, when you insert your sample clip, you will be presented with a dialogue box which shows:

"Do you want to change the project properties to match the video's properties so VideoStudio can perform SmartRender?" At this point, you have the option to check the option "Don't show this message next time. Always change project settings." I prefer not to check that box, but just hit the "Yes" button instead. That way, you always get the pop-up, and it's a better reminder.

Then use "Share >> Create Video File >> Same as Project Settings" and output to some suitable filename and location. This should then SmartRender your sample clip. If the preview screen is black whilst the file is being rendered, and it happens at many times less than the clip duration, it's a primary indication that SmartRender has worked. If, on the other hand, you see your sample clip play in the preview window, possibly at or less than real time speed, then it is not being SmartRendered. (I have just tried this procedure with a 13 second sample clip featuring 16:9 9800 kbps variable bitrate and it did SmartRender) If you can get SmartRender to work for you, it can save you a significant amount of time and might result in higher quality output. Any re-encoding of MPEG video inevitably causes some quality loss.

You show the video format to be 16:9, incidentally. Are you sure it was from the camcorder? Only the high-end camcorders do "real" 16:9, the regular consumer ones just crop the image and put black bars above and below it - so you actually lose vertical resolution.

To summarise in less than a thousand words, then, Trevor and I were suggesting two different approaches. If you can SmartRender your imported footage, the method I outline will generate your output MPEG-2 file more quickly, with potentially slightly less of a drop off in video quality.

I hope that this cleared things up and sorry I couldn't make it more concise!
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
Trevor Andrew

Post by Trevor Andrew »

HI

I think I agree with all that has been said but now I think I am getting confused.

I assumed you were to work on your clips in a video studio project, editing and adding titles etc.

After which you would have to render / create a new video file of your project.

At this point I suggested using Video Studio standard settings which uses 8000 kbps for a one hour long video.

Short Test.
Since my last posting I have run a few short tests and have been able to set the Project Properties using 9100 kbps reflecting your video clips properties. (and that’s a new one on me – you learn something every day)

From there I proceeded to the Create Disc window to make a TS Folder this seemed to be successful.(without re-rendering--- the warning ‘this action will take some time’--- did NOT show)
All settings reflected the video clip.

From the Create Disc window check your project settings from the ‘options cogwheel’
(Change Mpeg Settings – Custom )

If I have cause some confusion then I apologise, It would appear that you CAN maintain your original video clip settings as your project settings.

It comes down to a personal choice, My preference is still to convert to the VS standard, but this post has given me something to think about, I would be interested to hear the results using the higher settings.

Let us know how it goes.

Trevor

OH Thanks 2dogs
maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by maximus01can »

Thanks Both you guys for all the input, it seems as though I've presented a new challenge with the format in these clips. As far as "True 16:9 format", I can't say for sure, it's just what the clip tells me. The camcorder is a Sony DCR-DVD403. It appears to be a fairly high end unit, but I cannot confirm that format unless I investigate and right now I'm more interested in just getting this project "done". Hopefully the direction you guys gave me will work out well. The only real editing I'm going to do is have the transitions inserted between clips and insert some tunes. Again, thanks for all the help and if I get this thing to work out well I'll see if I have time to post some sort of guide on how to do this. I'm sure there's lots of these units burning up discs so undoubtibly there will be more questions regarding this same issue. I'll keep you guys posted on the outcome.

Cheers,
Max
Trevor Andrew

Post by Trevor Andrew »

Hi

Using VS 9
If your Video Clip is 16:9

Providing your project ( File/ Project Properties) are set to 16:9 your video in the preview screen will look like widescreen, with a black border at the top and bottom only.

It should not fill the whole screen.

Trevor

good luck
lancecarr
Advisor
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:34 am
operating_system: Windows 10
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: eMachines ET1861
processor: 3.20 gigahertz Intel Core i5 650
ram: 12GB
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 5400 Series
sound_card: ATI High Definition Audio Device
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 700GB
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Contact:

Post by lancecarr »

Max,
Just a quick addition of bad news regarding the 16:9 aspect ratio on the 403. Take a look at this thread over at camcorderinfo.com.

http://camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t118302.html
maximus01can
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:45 pm
operating_system: Windows 7 Professional
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
processor: Intel Core i7-2670QM CPU 2.20GHz
ram: 16 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570M 4095 MB Total available gr
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1Tb
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by maximus01can »

Lancecarr, Thanks for the input

That's quite the interesting thread, it looks as if you guys were able to get the desired results. Am I correct in guessing that Alex was using VS9 when he was talking about editing the IFO and VOB settings? Now the only angle that's a little different from Alex's is when I bring in my clips and check the properties it displays the format as 16:9??? and I don't notice any squishing or anything in the timeline or when previewing the clips in VS9.............I'm not sure what's' up with that, but I'll know more within the next couple days. I know when I viewed the mini DVD discs on my set top it looked like 4:3 as the whole screen was filled in my older sony tv as I don't have a widescreen unit. If the images were 16:9 I'm guessing I would have had the blank screen top and bottom when I played the DVD's

Cheers,
Max
Post Reply