Still More Out of Sync Questions - Please

[Manzano808]

I realize that this topic has been covered many times and in many ways. I have researched this from this Incredible Forum as well as others. No matter what, I'm left with some questions for my problem. Hopefully you can point me in the right direction.

Long before discovering this great forum and having the luxury of being able to follow the Recommended Procedures on capturing, editing etc. which are posted in Stickies, I captured some video from cable using the tuner on AIW 9800 Pro. On the advice of other 'gurus', I captured into MPEG-2 and this partucular file is about 1.5 hours of video.

Finally got VS9 and got around to burning a DVD. Burner is LG GSA-4163B 16X Super Multi drive. Tried various media (imation, Verbatim, and others along with trying -R & +R discs.

I played file and it seemed ok with no visible sync problems from beginning to end (of course as i see from so many posts here this is not unique). Sure enough after burning to DVD and playing, it starts out with a very slight OOS problem which grows worse as the DVD plays until at the end it is very bad.

Having said all that, where do i go from here? How can I get this onto a DVD without the sync problem? I have the following tools at my disposal:

DVD Shrink
DVD Decrypter
VS9
MF4
NERO 6.6.0.3 Enterprise Edition & all the extras
And maybe some other stuff I've probably forgotten about

System is (home built) P4 3.2 GHZ, ASUS P4C800-E Dlx. 1 GB RAM, HDD's are all 7200RPM w/ 8 MB cache (WD). System is fully optimized with separate partitions for paging, system files, data, etc. System is well-cooled and stable. OS is Windows 2000 Pro. No antivirus or much else running.

WARNING, newbie questions to follow!

At this time I'm all tapped out financially and cannot afford any more software (separate encoder like Womble or something which I would like to try). In fact I went over [an out of work] budget just to acquire the Ulead apps.

What should I do with this mpeg file before I edit the commercials out? Should I (could I?) convert to AVI or other, edit, and then re-encode? In fact, I wonder even without editing commericals, if the original captured file is any good except for viewing from hdd?!

What should I use to burn it? VS9? MF4? or even NERO? It seems there are so many ways and variables to try even with the few apps mentioned above.

Lastly, how does one check to find out which version of Ulead Burning Engine is installed? I checked the Registry but didn't see anything there that seemed relative. Is there a way within one of the programs to check?

I thank everyone for such and incredible board and for taking the time to help me with this problem.

Edit - OOOPS! Forgot to include Project Properties:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Don't know what is meant by "Project Settings". Sorry if I've left anything out.

[Manzano808]

Anyone?

Guess my post was too long.

1. I don't think I specified that I captured these clips via the MMC software that comes with the ATI All-in-wonder.

2. Can someone here at least let me know how I can check which burning engine is installed?

3. In the future, should I capture using VS9 or the ATI MMC?

Thanks

[rwindeyer]

Certainly not an expert, but I would recommend you convert the filesto AVI (ie, DV) and then edit out commercials etc. mpeg is a transport and delivery format, it is not meant for editing. That may well be the source of your problem.

Best of luck

[tyamada]

I suggest you download the CD/DVD Burning patch: http://www.ulead.com/tech/general/burning_patch.htm

Also the latest patch for VS9: www.ulead.com

I had some strange problems with VS9 before I installed the patches listed, the problems went away after the patches.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi
You are not being ignored, its just I don’t know where to start, you have asked a lot of questions in one posting.

OK just for a change we will work backwards.

Project Settings/Properties

When you launch video studio you open the ‘Editor’ in a project. This project is saved as a *.vsp file to your hard drive.
File / Project Properties will show the settings.

When you edit video files it is best to have the ‘project properties/settings’ the same as the video clip properties. (right click the clip in the timeline –select properties)
The video clip properties are what you select for your capture settings.

You posted a set of properties, but what are your video clip properties. (right click the clip in the timeline –select properties)

Capture

I also have an ATI capture card and MMC
I prefer to use Video Studio for all my capture. In fact I do not install the MMC.

If you are going to use VS then capture edit and burn with VS. (only my opinion)

Burner Engine

I don’t know what version.
If you haven’t upgraded the burner engine then there’s no problem.
If you have, then there’s no problem.
Copy the folder as instructed then install the latest ‘burner engine’

Editing Commercials

Extensive editing using mpeg 2 is not recommended.

If you have captured to Mpeg 2 you are not going to improve quality by changing the format to Avi in order to edit.
Removing the commercials should not cause you any noticeable quality problems.

Tapped Out
You say ‘At this time I'm all tapped out financially and cannot afford any more software’
Sorry but I have just paid for a new Bathroom and find my self short of cash.
Contributions accepted.

Let us know your Video Clip Properties and we will try to sort the OOS problem.

Got to make the dinner

All the Best Trevor

[DVDDoug]

I assume that you can't re-capture in AVI/DV format...

Actually, converting to AVI/DV is worth a try. The extra MPEG decode / re-code cycle will degrade the video quality, but this is preferable to sync errors! In my case it was the editing of the MPEG that caused the corruption, whch later caused the sync problems. You can try making a DVD from the unedited source material to determine if this is your problem.

Both Womble and VideoReDo offer30-day free trials... enough time to fix one video. The trick would be to either use these programs for editing, or use their repair tools after editing but before the sneaky corruption causes the sync error.

[Manzano808]

Hi
You are not being ignored, its just I don’t know where to start, you have asked a lot of questions in one posting.

Sorry for that. I realized it after I posted. I read where the forum was getting mad that people were not posting enough info. I guess i went overboard.

OK just for a change we will work backwards.

I thank you very much for your wonderful help on this problem!!

I also have an ATI capture card and MMC
I prefer to use Video Studio for all my capture. In fact I do not install the MMC.

Ha! Bet that saves you a bunch of headaches dealing with ATI's many versions and related bugs! Although i was forced to become somewhat of an expert on ATI/Catalyst software & drivers because of so many problems, i was finally able to end up with a stable combination. I will try capuring in VS9.

If you are going to use VS then capture edit and burn with VS. (only my opinion)

Appreciate that. I appears that there are many such programs and someone recommended VideoFactory which up till now, I hadn't heard of. I remember years ago working with a friends install of Adobe Premiere (sp?) 6.5, but it was over my head.

If you haven’t upgraded the burner engine then there’s no problem.
If you have, then there’s no problem.

Thank you! This is exactly what I wanted to know. I was afraid there would be problems if I already installed it.

Extensive editing using mpeg 2 is not recommended.
If you have captured to Mpeg 2 you are not going to improve quality by changing the format to Avi in order to edit.
Removing the commercials should not cause you any noticeable quality problems.

Sorry Trevor, i'm not sure you are telling me to convert the mpeg or not convert before editing. It seems you are saying, at this time, converting will not help me?

You say ‘At this time I'm all tapped out financially and cannot afford any more software’ Sorry but I have just paid for a new Bathroom and find my self short of cash. Contributions accepted.

Same here. Since getting displaced out of Louisiana and slammed by "mother nature", we are lucky to even have something to work with at all. We were very lucky. We only now were able to get a bed to sleep on. But at least I was able to save the computer.

Let us know your Video Clip Properties and we will try to sort the OOS problem.

I thank you so much for this information. You have covered my questions and offered a fantastic web link! I guess that is from you? It already answered another nagging problem, why did my captured vhs tape create a file so darn big i wan't able to burn it onto a single layer DVD?!! I just used too high of settings thinking I needed to. But this Great forum has pointed out that with VHS, you don't need such high settings, and you can make the final file smaller. UGH, wish i would have researched this before spending so much time with that. Now I have no idea how to shrink the file (original family video is now kaput) to be able to burn it. I may just have to buy some dual layer DVDs for this.

I thank you again for your time and hope your dinner turned out ok!!

[Manzano808]

I assume that you can't re-capture in AVI/DV format...

Yes, that is true.

Actually, converting to AVI/DV is worth a try. The extra MPEG decode / re-code cycle will degrade the video quality, but this is preferable to sync errors!

Absolutely agree! It was strange how it grew steadily worse as we played the DVD?

You can try making a DVD from the unedited source material to determine if this is your problem.

The file is just too darn big. I will try what you have suggested. At this point, i'm ready to try anything possible.

Thank you very much for your input on this! After reading so much of this forum, i was hoping I would hear from you. Actually, if i knew only as much about video editing as any of you guys have FORGOTTEN in the last few weeks, I would be happy as a pig in poop. When i get back on my feet I'll give Womble a try. Actually I guess I can try the trial like you said.

[Manzano808]

The extra MPEG decode / re-code cycle will degrade the video quality, but this is preferable to sync errors!

DVDDoug, would converting to the AVI/DV format remove the existing mpeg problems (corruption or whatever)? Seems to make sense as you would then have a completely different file format. Could you then consider that you are starting from a kind of 'clean slate' with a new, albeit slightly degraded file?

Thanks Again!!

[Manzano808]

Certainly not an expert, but I would recommend you convert the filesto AVI (ie, DV) and then edit out commercials etc.

Thanks for the help Ron!! You guys have given me some things to try!!

[sjj1805]

Please read this post, one of the best I have read on this forum, regarding out of synch issues, causes and cures.

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=3525

[Manzano808]

Let us know your Video Clip Properties and we will try to sort the OOS problem.

Ok Trevor, and I thank you again:

FILE
Format: MPEG-2
Size: 6,193,368 KB
Duration: 8551.885 Seconds

VIDEO
Type: MPEG-2 Video, UpperField First
Total frames: 256,300 Frame(s)
Attributes: 24 Bits, 704x480, 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 Frames/Sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max.8000 kbps)

AUDIO
Type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total samples: 377,138,138 Samples
Attributes: 44100Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2
Bit rate: 224 kpbs
===========================
Please let me know some specific settings I may try. In the meantime, I'll follow that info on the Stephen Wray site linked above.

OOOPS! Just realized that he is giving info for VS8 and not 9. Guess i'll follow the recommendations in the Sticky.

[Trevor Andrew]

FILE
Format: MPEG-2
Size: 6,193,368 KB
Duration: 8551.885 Seconds

VIDEO
Type: MPEG-2 Video, UpperField First
Total frames: 256,300 Frame(s)
Attributes: 24 Bits, 704x480, 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 Frames/Sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max.8000 kbps)

AUDIO
Type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total samples: 377,138,138 Samples
Attributes: 44100Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2
Bit rate: 224 kpbs
===========================

The above appear to be your captured video clip settings
Below are the project settings you supplied in the first post.

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First (this needs to be correct at the capture stage and depends on the capture source)
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

As you can see the properties are different, ideally both properties should be the same.
The settings immediately above are the ones you would normally use to capture.
Your capture settings from the Ati device seem to be a variation.

Change your project settings to match the video clip settings.
After editing and removing the commercials, Share create video file –Same as First Video Clip
This will make a second Dvd-Mpeg 2 file using the clip properties as a template..

Then from a new project, Share Create Disc, make sure the Project Properties match the Video Clip Properties. Add the video file made above
You should then burn without any further render.

Does that improve things?

Trevor

[ccblue]

I have VS9 and hitting the out of synch bug, but my problem seems to be the flip side of what I've seen here. The sound is following the video by a large gap (1 1/2 to 2 1/2 seconds). It seems to happen after I've shortened a video clip and/or added a transition. I've followed the recommended procedure, but to no avail. I can see it happen as soon as it's placed in the timeline. I thought it was just in the preview mode, but when it renders the gap is there. I've loaded the latest burning patches as well as all the VS9 patches.

Has anyone else had this same issue, if so any resolution?

[sjj1805]

CCBlue

Please view this
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=8959