Not a rhetorical question .....

DiscCoasterPro · Post by **DiscCoasterPro** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:53 pm

Hi all. I'm sorry, but I just can't resist asking this question after reading post after post about problems.

Is there a STABLE NLEditing program out there? Or .. do we just get to pay 6 or 7 times as much for something else, and end up with the same troubles anyway?

I admit I'm a relative newcomer to video editing, and I am not opposed to spending a ton of time reading and learning, however, if there is a way to eliminate one very large chunk of this learning curve by purchasing a super stable program .... I'm in!

p.s. All these little tweaks, and setting changes that help VS run smoothly .... how about the programmers make a kind of patch, that provides a pull down menu in the program with these various tweak settings, so all we have to do is choose the appropriate situation and click on it? Or, for example, don't create a DVD from the timeline. Why not .. when someone does this, have the program, make the changes behind the scenes to remedy the problem? No? .. ok, sorry.

thanks,
dcp

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:19 pm

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, and I'm sure others with more experience will be quick to correct me, but it's not as simple as creating "a kind of patch" to fix everyone's problems.

As you know, NLE video editing is a very complicated process, using loads and loads of cpu processing power. And, as you know, not everyone's computer is the same. Different amounts - and types - of memory, other programs, hard drives, etc. For instance, some people advise only using a computer for video editing - no Internet hookup, no virus programs, nothing. And sometimes they still have problems. I, on the other hand, use my computer for everything - Internet, bookkeeping, my kid even plays games on it - and I have very few problems. Maybe I'm just lucky with my set up, but maybe that has something to do with it.

Also, keep in mind that home computer video editing is fairly new, as far as technology goes. Heck, I can still remember my first computer, with that green screen, that only ran DOS programs. It wasn't that long ago! NLE video editing will only get better as the technology advances.

This forum is here to help people with problems and to swap ideas. I've learned a lot over the last few years. I've also had many hobbies over the years, but nothing has ever given me the satisfaction like video editing and production has. So keep plugging along, whether with Ulead or some other "super stable program" should you be lucky enough to find it.

(Stepping down from my soapbox now

)

Bobm03 · Post by **Bobm03** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:26 pm

Black Lab wrote: ~~~SNIP~~~(Stepping down from my soapbox now )

Let me climb onto mine.

My currently installed Ulead software on a 2.8G Pentium 4, 512 meg memory, 1x80G and 1x160G hard drives:
VS9 bought late September 05
MF3.5 bought March 05
PI 10 & PE8.5 and CD&DVDPS 3 installed when this computer was purchased in November 2004.

Aside from a couple of very, very minor irritants with Smart Download and the MPEG3 plugin in VS 9 which Tech Support resolved promptly, I have never had any problems with any Ulead software. None. Zilch. Everything works the way it's supposed to.

Like Black Lab, I find video and photo editing an extraordinary and rewarding experience. Comparing the use of my Commodore 64 to make titles for the videos taken on my VHS RCA 200 Camcorder, as I did back in 1986, to the use of my current software is really a no brainer. Comparing what I did in my darkroom processing and printing colour and black and white films and prints to what I have today falls into the same category.

I genuinely feel sorry for those who have problems. It isn't very much fun, I know. I come to this board several times a day, not so much to help anyone with a problem 'cause I've had none, but to learn from other users. Works for me.

DiscCoasterPro wrote:I admit I'm a relative newcomer to video editing, and I am not opposed to spending a ton of time reading and learning, however, if there is a way to eliminate one very large chunk of this learning curve by purchasing a super stable program .... I'm in!

Download a TBYB version of VS9. See if you like it.

NO, I am not a Ulead employee, nor do I have any affiliation with them other than being a happy customer

(Climbing down from the soapbox...

)

DiscCoasterPro · Post by **DiscCoasterPro** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:39 pm

Thanks... but I don't wanna get lucky, I wanna know if it exists, and ya know what, if it means a particular computer configuration, then so be it. I truely am beginning to feel like these quirks are the product of sub $100 dollar programs. ( which I don't blame, but would choose against given the option). Being new to this, and enjoying it as much as I do, I simply don't know the answer to my question.

I'm fully aware that computer systems are different and user choices are also different in terms of how they go about designing their project. I am honestly asking that beyond the extra features that higher end programs provide, do they also provide a higher level of stability.

Now, with regard to patches and settings. The "avoid problems" recommended procedure post here is a perfect example. These tips are specific setting choices. There must be a zillion folks who use VS and either don't know about this forum, are not computer savvy enough to navigate to it, or are plain scared to make multiple setting changes to the program. My thought was, if these things are proven ways to help prevent trouble, then why not have the program perform these tasks automatically? It seems reasonable to me. I dunno, I mean if you shouldn't create a DVD from the timeline, then don't let the program do it.

I think the frustration I feel is from a perception of indifference coming from the people at Ulead to step up. I feel like they have us as their beta testers, they give us a forum to feed them with info, and yet, as it seems evident from so many folks posting (I've been lucky so far) except for the great people answering here, we are on our own to find cures.

I'm not trying to jump the Ulead ship, I'm just not opposed to spending money to eliminate troubles if in fact a more expensive program performs more reliably.

If someone, or if more than one person can confirm that the nature of the beast is based on all sub $100 dollar NLEditors then I have found the information I seek. If on the other hand, as you imply, the whole thing is a crap shoot, then OK .. I can deal with that as well.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:50 pm

If you would venture over to the Media Studio Pro forum you would find plenty of issues over there too. And MSP definitely costs a bit more than $100

So, are these general problems with NLE video editing, or Ulead in particular? That I can't answer.

DiscCoasterPro · Post by **DiscCoasterPro** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:59 pm

Yeah I suppose. BTW I currently own registered copies of VS 8 and 9. DVD Workshop 2, and DVDit. I was thinking more in terms of Adobe, or Edius, but perhaps you are right. I just don't wanna be banging my head on the door if there's a knob to turn.

While I'm venting my frustrations ... lol ... major bug fixes are also called upgrades .. which we .. the beta testers .. get to pay for also.

Not just Ulead, and not just video editing .. I guess we are in the middle of an evolution. Maybe I should put this aside for a while and go back to my cross-stitching .. hehehe..

dcp

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:04 pm

FWIW I bought Vs9 more or less on impluse because I felt I needed something a bit more then Windows Movie Maker.

Previously to VS9 I had the Pinnacle software equivalent. Version 8.

That was awful. I bought it with a Pinnacle analogue capture dongle called a USB Plus to capture my analogue 8mm tapes. It never worked correctly and would frequently fail to render my productions.

I quite liked the interface to the Pinnacle software but I was not tempted to upgrade to V9 of their software nor the recently released V10 simply because of the awful experience I had with V8. So bad was it I will probably never buy anthing off Pinnacle again!

I can use the Pinnacle software to capture from my mini-DV camera but I didn't even think of employing that software when I was looking for alternatives.

With VS9 it is so far so good for me. I have read the tips on this forum and acted accordingly. I treat this place as the real user manual and for once it is a manual I have taken time to read!!

Perhaps that is why I have not had any serious problems so far.

It is not the perfect program but using it has got my enthusiam for video editing back. It took a severe dent after the Pinnacle software experience.

Don't forget this forum like all others product based forums on the internet will be dominated by those who are having problems, not those who have none. It is not often people seek out user forums to post positive comments.

You can download a trial version of Vs9 so I don't see the risk in giving that a go. If you end up with problems, try something else.

I was after trying Adobe Premier Elements but could not find a download on their site (I probably didn't look hard enough) but so far so good with VS9.

Dave

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:13 pm

I agree, most satisfied users don't post here, only the ones with problems.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:32 pm

I have Adobe Premiere 1.5 and Pinnacle Liquid Editon 6, and both are superb programs. But as I have said before, the learning curve is incredibly steep and I am still, I admit, only somewhere down in the foothills still on that curve. I would estimate that I probably know no more than about 10% of either program's true capabilities. And if something goes wrong, I happily admit I have no real idea whether it might have been a fault in the program or something I did wrong, though I would hazard the guess that it was me in just about every case. The real 'proplem' with both programs is the sheer volume of information in the manuals/help files. Now I happen to be someone who reads manuals, but I confess I simply blanch when I look at Premiere's or Liquid Editions 1000 page plus manuals!! And it is no wonder that I may have overlooked a handy procedure which was in a footnote to a footnote on p. 867!!! I plough on regardless, though the process is slow. And again, I can only repeat what I have also said before: neither is anywhere near as intuitive as VS 9 seems to be to me...

As for your comments about all the problems being related to sub-$100 programs, well you could be right. But I guess my immediate response would be (1) you get what you pay for and (2) you certainly can't (or at least shouldn't) expect companies to cram all the bells and whistles into sub-$100 programs when they charge hundreds of dollars more for programs which DO have the bells and whistles already in them. As someone else on this thread has already said or implied, hell, we already have a program with fairly amazing capabilities for under $100, which is streets ahead of VS 8 in the reliability stakes...

Post by **Ron P.** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:24 pm

Well I guess I'll jump in here too...
I came across Ulead VS a few years ago, (VS5) that was bundled with my ATI-AIW card. At that time I had cable internet and used VS5 to capture shows.
Then I developed a need to edit my home vids, so I looked at other alternatives, Pinnicle being one of them. That didn't last long. Now keep in mind, I can no way afford Prosumer programs, so just shopped and tried out consumer editing programs. I had a friend give me an older version of Adobe Premier. I installed it, and after a week uninstalled it and gave it back. Way too much for this old man. I had VS5 so I wandered to their website and noticed that they now had VS8, which I done the TBYB, and upgraded. It was better then 5. Now I'm at 9. Ok, long winded, but with a point, So far I have not found any video editing program that runs smooth from the get-go. I just ran the trial version of Vegas MS6, and it did have a few little glitches.

Now let me add this too, with Vegas, you could download, and try it out to a certain extent. They disable the ability to render to MPEG. Ulead lets you really try their stuff, so you should have a fairly good idea if it's going to work for you or not. I also do everything on my computer and lately VS9 is ok with that. I just remember to shut background programs down before editing...

Edit
If you think that Ulead Video Studio 9, 8 or whatever version is the only one that causes problems, visit other program forums. I was kinda surprised when I went to Sony Vegas' forum and almost thought I was here

GuyL · Post by **GuyL** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:29 pm

I learned a long time ago that all software is beta - whether it is labelled that way or not. It is a continuous evolution.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:08 am

Instead of asking here about "super stable programs"

I would head over to the other forums, they all have them, there are forums for Vegas, for Premiere, you name it.

If you find one that fits the bill, go for it.

I got involved with Ulead programs the first time with VS 5, came bundled with some hardware. It only had VCD and SVCD capabilities which I tried but disliked the resultant quality. I even had to buy the DVD plugin at the time in order to get the SVCD functionality (didn't have a DVD burner then). I quickly outgrew VS5 and went to upgrade to MSP 6.5. Now, that was a completely different kettle of fish. Not without teething problems but very rewarding in the final output.

The only real problem I had with MSP, I'm now on version 7.3, was a sound sync problem which I fixed, on Terry's advice, with a sound card in lieu of the on board AC97 sound I was using. Other than that, I had no real problems.

A friend of mine is using Premiere Pro and I'm yet to see something he did better on his system than what I did on mine. Cannot, for the life of me, find one single compelling reason to fork out the extra money. To pay more to go from a simple program, like VS, to a more prosumer orientated program like MSP, yes, anytime.

DiscCoasterPro · Post by **DiscCoasterPro** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:41 am

Yeah, that was my consideration before diving into something expensive in an effort to simply put problems behind me relative to application glitches.

I too agree that all programs of the 100 dollar flavor considered, VS is the best. Not having any experience at all with the higher end stuff, I couldn't help but be curious about the stability of those programs. I also have the full version of Cyberlinks Power Director 4 which isn't a bad program, but not as nice as VS. I really like DVD Workshop which is what I use to burn my VS projects. I think its the same stuff that's in VS anyway.

I have my hands full understanding what the heck I'm doing, so the idea of being able to eliminate one variable (the program) in any future failed effort would be a no brainer for me. If you guys said the higher end stuff was not usually susceptible to these quirks. That evidently not being the case, I'll trudge on. * ( but I still think they should patch the program to operate under the guide's posted settings by default

)

I don't know if you happened to see my post on my daughters wedding video. I mean, wow what this guy did was amazing. It was fun to sit and watch. I'll admit that throughout the video I kept thinking, is his program crashing every half hour too like the folks that write in? There in lies the thought behind my wondering about the high end programs.

I purchased Pinnacle Media Studio 10 Suite just a few weeks ago. I thought that program was terrible. I put it no EBAY the next day. I have registered versions of about 5 different programs now including VS 8 and 9. I would like to get to a point in my ability where I can do some vhs to dvd work and authoring as a sideline because I'm retired. While I learn the best I can with VS, I will alway be open to trying new things.

You see, I'm not afraid to try these programs, but I do quiver just a bit with the 600 dollar ones unless I ask first.

dcp

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:00 am

No harm in asking, dcp

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Once you look into the prosumer programs and frequent their forums, for example here: http://www.dmnforums.com You might find that there is generally a different class of users at work. For one thing, I have never heared of MSP or Premiere Pro being bundled with some cheap hardware. There are serious users at work and the questions and answers are of a different class altogether.

If you are serious about your hobby or, as you stated, want to turn it into a bit of a side line, make the move to MSP or any of the other prosumer programs. When it comes to value for money, IMHO, you can't beat MSP. The only problem I can see there for you, albeit only temporary, is the fact that ULEAD have just released MSP 8. It's in it's teething problem phase at present and I have not yet looked at it seriously. There are a lot of things it can do which will, no daubt, make me upgrade one day as well. Again, look at the posts here and go to the dmnforums site for MSP for comparison. I'm sure you will quickly realise what I meant.

DiscCoasterPro · Post by **DiscCoasterPro** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:46 am

Hi heinz, thanks for the link. Yikes .. there's as many problems there as anywhere ... lol.

Just a few minutes ago I had VS9 roll over on me while I was doing a multi trim of an AVI file I just converted. This was the second time. I got a message that VS9 has encountered a problem and must close. Poof... I opened VS8, did exactly what I had just done in VS9 and it worked fine! Not really sure what I was doing I cant blame the program. I did go back into VS9 and redid the same thing again, no problem this time. I was scrubbing much slower this time though, it almost seemed like moving around fast caused the problem.

Well, I'm gonna be taking a peek at one more program to add to my experimenting. Canopus has their 600 dollar Edius on sale now for 200 bucks. They are offering a full version 30 day trial and a free DVD tutorial to go with it. I ordered it a few days ago and I'm hoping it comes before the weekend so I can do my hermit act in my computer room.

I went to their forum, and was able to come to a conclusion, that .... either I don't know how to navigate the forum ... or .... no one even uses that program ..

... or ... no one has any trouble with it, cause there are no posts that I can find LOL.

One thing interesting I read on that link, was someone writing in saying they were having trouble editing an mpeg file with Final Cut Pro. They were answered, "Final Cut wont edit mpegs ... find an mpeg editor." So, there are specific programs just for editing mpeg clips? Whew ...

The aheader I go ... the behinder I get.

dcp