Continuing problems with audio/video synch

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi s.burnley

Where did you get these settings from:-

For completeness the project properties were:-

PAL (25fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
Uncompressed
PCM, 44.100 kHZ, 16 bit, Stereo

Do a short capture , 10 seconds will do.
After capturing a clip is placed in the timeline, right click this clip and select properties what are they?

Trevor

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi,

I have a direct line-in connection to my PC separate from the camcorder Firewire connection. The firewire connection works via the on-board sound and the "WAV" input so it is slightly delayed giving the impression of being OOS.

How are you connecting your camera to your pc.
One cable or two?????????????


Trevor

[Ken Berry]

A further question re your first render to a DVD compliant mpeg-2: did you use Smart Render (under the advanced options when you chose the format)? If so, try it with that turned off as this often causes problems, including OOS. (In my case, I don't get OOS, but Smart Render, on old VHS captures, often causes the clip to stick on one place for a few seconds. Turning it off may add considerable time to your overall process, but it produces surer results.

Also, if all else fails, there is a product out there called Video ReDo (http://videoredo.com/) which promises to get your video and audio back in synch. I think they have a trial download. It also costs US$49.95. I know VS9 should work anyway, but if you are really tearing your hair out, have a look at ReDo. A number of people on this Board have used it to good effect.

[s.burnley]

Trevor,

Where did you get these settings from:-

For completeness the project properties were:-

PAL (25fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
Uncompressed
PCM, 44.100 kHZ, 16 bit, Stereo

How are you connecting your camera to your pc.
One cable or two?????????????

The settings are those that appear in the bottom pane of the "Project Properties" dialogue box.

My camcorder is connected by a firewire cable to the firewire connection on the motherboard. The VCR is connected to the camcorder by the special Sony connector for stereo sound and an SVHS cable.

did you use Smart Render

No, at all times I uncheck the smart render check box. I'll find out more about video redo. I also have virtualdub on the system but I haven't worked out how to ulitise it and then create a DVD without going back into UVS.

Thanks for all your help guys - it really is appreciated. I'm convinced that there must be something I'm doing that, once discovered, will prompt a smack on the forehead!

[Trevor Andrew]

Aaaaaaggggghhhh!!

How do you pronounce that word.

This is ridiculous I cannot see anything that you are doing that will cause OOS.
Even with the audio settings being different.
I cannot believe that changing DV-Audio to LPCM Audio would cause this.

Just in case try another render from the captured Dv-Avi.
Start a new project
Insert the captured Avi to the timeline
Trim the ends if you wish
Save the project

Share – Create Video File
Select ------------‘Custom’
Save Type As----Mpeg 2 files

Options
Set the following properties.

MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First From the (General Tab)
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: 6000 kbps Constant
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

It should work.?????????????????????

Trevor

[s.burnley]

Trevor,

Thanks for sticking in there.

Just in case try another render from the captured Dv-Avi.

Unfortunately my 30 trial period with UVS 9 has expired,. I'll follow your suggestion but I shall have to revert to UVS8 and this will mean another capture.

Stuart

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Stuart

You should be able to use the captured Dv-Avi from VS 9. Just insert the file to the timeline in a new project.
Although for peace of mind it may be better to recapture.

When you capture via Firewire you are actually copying the Dv-Avi data with no recoding within VS.
So the Dv-Avi you have should be identical even if you recapture using VS 8.

I must admit I missed the point that you were using the trial version. So the question is did you have OOS using VS 8?

Let us know how VS 8 reacts.

Trevor

[s.burnley]

Hi,

I have now recaptured, edited and rendered using UVS8 and the same test piece. Incidentally all of the OOS problems I have suffered have been equally evident with UVS8 and 9. I had hoped 9 might resolve the issue.

Although I give the details below, the final result is still OOS I'm sorry to say. At the 17 minute mark it is just noticeable but would be OK, but at 44 minutes it is quite noticeable.

What I did:-

Capture - as usual and disabled audio preview. Saved file.

Edit :- restarted UVS8, dragged capture file on to timeline. Said "Yes" to allow project properties to be changed so that smart render could be performed.

Project properties

Pal 25fps
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 4.3, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV video encoder - type 1
DV audio - PAL, 48,000kHz, 16 bit, Stereo

Sound and video spot on at both markers.

Then I rendered. I selected MPEG files, 100% quality, unchecked "Perform Smart Render". Interestingly on the "Compression" tab the only sound option available was "Joint Stereo, 44100 Hz, 256 kBs".

So the selected project properties were:-

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
MPEG - 2 , 4.3
Video Data Rate: 6000 bps, Constant
Audio Data Rate: 256 kbps

The render process took considerably longer than with any of the other attempts - about 2.5 hours versus about 45 minutes - and the rendered file is 5.5 Gb compared with about 3 Gb using the "variable" video data rate.

Playing back the rendered file with Windows Media Player showed very slight but acceptable OOS at 17 minutes but very noticable OOS at 44 minutes. It was distinctly worse than with the previous tests using UVS9 - with the video lagging the audio by about twice as much as before.

[Black Lab]

What I did:-

Capture - as usual and disabled audio preview. Saved file.

Edit :- restarted UVS8, dragged capture file on to timeline. Said "Yes" to allow project properties to be changed so that smart render could be performed.

Project properties

Pal 25fps
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 4.3, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV video encoder - type 1
DV audio - PAL, 48,000kHz, 16 bit, Stereo

Sound and video spot on at both markers.

Then I rendered. I selected MPEG files, 100% quality, unchecked "Perform Smart Render". Interestingly on the "Compression" tab the only sound option available was "Joint Stereo, 44100 Hz, 256 kBs".

It sounds like you are going from editing your file right to creating the mpeg file. The recommended procedure (from the top sticky post) is to create an avi file from your edited file, start a new project using mpeg properties, then inserting your newly created avi to the time line. From there you render to create the mpeg for burning. Is this what you are doing or did I misunderstand your process?

[Black Lab]

Why don't they fix this duplicate posting

[s.burnley]

The recommended procedure (from the top sticky post) is to create an avi file from your edited file, start a new project using mpeg properties, then inserting your newly created avi to the time line. From there you render to create the mpeg for burning. Is this what you are doing or did I misunderstand your process?

Sorry Black Lab for the confusion - it was the way I typed it up. I did start a new project and insert the AVI file to the timeline.

Stuart

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Stuart

Sorry but your figures do not make sense.

You should be able to get a video 90 minutes long when rendering a file to 6000 kbps constant bit rate.
You should be able to select other audio levels than Joint Stereo, 44100 Hz, 256 kBs

A one minute video at 6000 constant--mpeg audio 16 bit 48 hz should be about 46500 kb
A one minute video at 6000 constant--LPCM should be about 56400 kb

If your video is 45 minutes long then the file size should not be 5.5GB but nearer 2.5GB.

After you rendered a thumbnail was placed in the library of your completed file.
If you right click and select properties you can view the total number of frames and the duration in seconds.

If you are producing files of this magnitude then I think you have to consider a ‘Clean Install’
The installation of your version could be corrupt

Trevor

[s.burnley]

Hi again,

If your video is 45 minutes long then the file size should not be 5.5GB but nearer 2.5GB.

The whole video is 1 hour but I use a very clear speech point at about 44 minutes to check the OOS. On most (all possibly) of my earlier renders the file size was in the upper 3 Gb range - it would comfortably fit on a single DVD. That was using "variable [8000 Max]" data rate.

The file properties of the rendered file are: -

File Format MPEG - 2
Size 5 129 572 kB
Duration 6639.480 seconds

Video

Type MPEG - 2 Video, Lower Field First
Frames 165,987 Frame(s)
Attributes 24 bits, 720 x 576, 4.3
Frame Rate 25.000 Frames/sec
Data Rate 6000 kbps

Audio

Type MPEG Audion Layer 2 Files
Total Samples 292,801,068 Samples
Attributes 44100, 16 bit Stereo
Layer 2
Bit rate 256 kbps


When I do the maths 6639.480 seconds works out to be 110.65 minutes or 1hour 50 minutes! So you are right - everything does seem screwy.

I'm going to remove UVS8 from the system, reinstall and try again.

[s.burnley]

Back to square 1. . .

When I do the maths 6639.480 seconds works out to be 110.65 minutes or 1hour 50 minutes! So you are right - everything does seem screwy.

I resolved this. It was an error on my part. I had accidentally left the capture on for 1 hour 50 minutes and I thought that I had trimmed off the last 50 minutes before rendering. Obviously not!

After having reinstalled UVS8 (but not any of the patches so far) I checked that the capture I had done before was still in synch and it was.

I then trimmed off the spurious 50 minutes and rendered using a constant bit rate of 6000 bps.

The audio led the video at the 44 minute mark as before, playing the file with Windows Media player.

Now that I have video redo for a 15 day trial I was able to use it to obtain synch. The setting was -600 millisecs, i.e. the audio had to be pulled back.

The project properties were:

MPEG file
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
MPEG -2, 4:3
Video data rate 6000 bps
Audio data rate 256 kbps
Stereo, 48,000 khz, 256

The rendered file properties are:-

PAL DVD
Size 2 814 014 kB
Duration 3642.320 seconds

Video

Type MPEG - 2 Video, Lower Field First
Frames 91058 Frame(s)
Attributes 24 bits, 720 x 576, 4.3
Frame Rate 25.000 Frames/sec
Data Rate 6000 kbps

Audio

Type MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total Samples 174,831,360 Samples
Attributes 48000, 16 bit Stereo
Layer 2
Bit rate 256 kbps

For the information of anyone thinking about using Video Redo, the synchronisation applies to the whole mpeg clip in a file. So if you have progressive OOS you have to break down the clip into sections (easily done) adjust the synch (fairly easily done) on each section separately and then rejoin the adjusted sections. I found that the quality of joins after rejoining was not good, although it would no doubt get better with practice.

Are there any software sound editors out there that could take the whole of a sound file - say an hour or even 3 hours long - and compress it or expand it slightly so that progressive OOS could be dealt with effectively? That way I could split the audio and video in UVS, tweak the audio file as required in the separate editor and recombine them?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Stuart

Ok so the oversized file was an overlook on your part, not to worry.

You are still having OOS problems that you need to cure.
VS will work without OOS.
You can use other software to correct the error, if thats the way you want to go, but you really need to find the problem and cure.

When you Re-installed video studio, after un-installing did you delete other files remaining on your hard drive.

The effect is to do a ‘CLEAN’ install.

Trevor