I want to create DVDs from my old Hi-8 and VHS video tapes but so far without being able to get rid of oos problems. I have been trying out various options for several months to try to isolate where the oos seems to occur.
Although I think I have followed the recommended procedures in the top sticky it still doesn't work and I would welcome any suggestions as to what steps I might take now to find the source of the problem and work round it.
Presumably most of you are able to create DVDs with audio and video in synch so I should be able to as well!
My capture is via a Sony TRV 355 digital camcorder on pass through connected via SVHS to my VCR, and firewire to the PC.
My PC is based on an AMD 64bit 3500+ CPU, Windows XP home - patched up to date, 1Gb RAM, and separate 140 Gb, 7200rpm HDD for video capture and editing. My DVD burner is a Plextor PX712A patched with the latest firmware I am using the on-board sound on the motherboard - a soltek k8tpro - 939. I have broadband connection to the internet but I disconnect that and disable both virus checking and firewall when I do my video editing. I have loaded the recommended patches for UVS 8.
Just lately I have been using a 1 hour VHS video as a test piece with 2 checkpoints at about 17 minutes and at 44 minutes trying out UVS 8 and UVS 9, with DV type 1 and DV type 2 audio capture. There appears to be no significant difference in the resultant OOS no matter what I do. This includes breaking the capture into approximately 12 minute long clips.
Capturing the whole tape seems consistently OK on both UVS8 and UVS9 (- the downloaded trial version). There are no dropped frames.
Project properties using UVS8:
Edit file format - Microsoft AVI files
PAL 25 fps
24 bits, 720x576, 25 fps
Lower field first
DVD-PAL, 4.3
Video Data Rate 6000 kbps
LPCM audio, 48 kHz, Stereo
After editing - which on this test piece is minimal, just a bit of cutting at the beginning and the end, I can consistently obtain an edited file in whch the video is very slightly ahead of the audio at the 44 minute mark by about .5 seconds. [In fact the original test VHS tape is slightly OOS with the video lagging at this point and the edited file brings video and audio into synch!]
Project properties:
PAL 25 fps
24 bits, 720x576, 25 fps
Lower field first
DV video encoder - type 1
DV audio - PAL, 48000 kHz, 16 bit, stereo
The OOS problem first shows when I render to mpeg. On playing back the mpg file, the audio leads at the 44 minute point by about 1 second. At the 17 minute mark the lead is there but by a correspondingly smaller amount.
Project properties:
mpeg files
24 bits, 720x576, 25 fps
Frame based
(DVD-PAL), 4.3
Video date rate: variable (Max 6000 bps)
LPCM audio, 48000 kHz, 16 bit, stereo
Then I create a dvd.iso file and burn to DVD (I'm using DVD-RW so no coasters). The video lag at the 44 minute test point can be as much as 3 seconds but is usually about 1 to 2 seconds.
My conclusion after many tests is that I must be missing something or doing something stupid.
Any help would be much appreciated - I am tearing my hair out and driving my wife insane!!
Continuing problems with audio/video synch
Moderator: Ken Berry
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Ken Berry
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Thanks for all the detail, but I confess I am just a little confused about the order in which your present your 3 sets of 'Project Properties'. As far as I can see, the second set (with Type 1 DV encoder) is what you capture. Then set 1 is what you produce (Share > Create Video File), and set 3 are the properties you use to burn in (Share > Create Disc). Is that right?
And to summarise your problem: you get out-of-sync problems both when you produce your DVD-compliant video file AND it gets worse when you burn the disc?
A couple of initial observations, though: your set 1 of Project Properties seems strange. First it is headed 'Microsoft AVI files', but further down it says 'DVD-PAL', which is most definitely not 'Microsoft AVI' format but mpeg-2. Pls confirm that this is indeed somehow what you have used or whether one of them is a typo.
My second comment is on your third set of 'project properties'. Why have you suddenly started using a completely different Field Order -- changing from the correct Lower Field First in the first two, suddenly to 'Frame based'? At the very least, changing this property at the burning stage would force VS8 to re-encode your file before burning, and do so on the fly, and that is when out of sync problems are most likely to creep in.
And to summarise your problem: you get out-of-sync problems both when you produce your DVD-compliant video file AND it gets worse when you burn the disc?
A couple of initial observations, though: your set 1 of Project Properties seems strange. First it is headed 'Microsoft AVI files', but further down it says 'DVD-PAL', which is most definitely not 'Microsoft AVI' format but mpeg-2. Pls confirm that this is indeed somehow what you have used or whether one of them is a typo.
My second comment is on your third set of 'project properties'. Why have you suddenly started using a completely different Field Order -- changing from the correct Lower Field First in the first two, suddenly to 'Frame based'? At the very least, changing this property at the burning stage would force VS8 to re-encode your file before burning, and do so on the fly, and that is when out of sync problems are most likely to creep in.
Ken Berry
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s.burnley
Ken, thanks for your response.
To answer your questions. . .
"I am just a little confused about the order in which you present your 3 sets of 'Project Properties'. As far as I can see, the second set (with Type 1 DV encoder) is what you capture. Then set 1 is what you produce (Share > Create Video File), and set 3 are the properties you use to burn in (Share > Create Disc). Is that right? "
Yes that's right. The project properties are those I wrote down during a particular test on Oct 21st. My process is 1) set preferences - and against that I have noted only "DV type 1". 2) - Capture - and with the "Capture" tab selected the project properties are set 1. 3) - Edit - with the "Edit" tab selected the project properties are shown as set 2. 4) - Create Video File - with the "Share" tab selected and prior to performing the render the project properties are set 3.
". . . you get out-of-sync problems both when you produce your DVD-compliant video file AND it gets worse when you burn the disc?"
Yes.
"your set 1 of Project Properties seems strange. First it is headed 'Microsoft AVI files', but further down it says 'DVD-PAL', which is most definitely not 'Microsoft AVI' format but mpeg-2. Pls confirm that this is indeed somehow what you have used or whether one of them is a typo. "
Yes this is what was shown in the dialogue box - so not a typo.
"Why have you suddenly started using a completely different Field Order -- changing from the correct Lower Field First in the first two, suddenly to 'Frame based'?"
I have just now repeated the steps as listed in the recommended procedures and UVS8 does show "Frame based" and "DVD-PAL" in the list of properties. So it's what UVS 8 set for me!! Incidentally I also noted that it took about 40 minutes to perform that render if that is of any help.
To answer your questions. . .
"I am just a little confused about the order in which you present your 3 sets of 'Project Properties'. As far as I can see, the second set (with Type 1 DV encoder) is what you capture. Then set 1 is what you produce (Share > Create Video File), and set 3 are the properties you use to burn in (Share > Create Disc). Is that right? "
Yes that's right. The project properties are those I wrote down during a particular test on Oct 21st. My process is 1) set preferences - and against that I have noted only "DV type 1". 2) - Capture - and with the "Capture" tab selected the project properties are set 1. 3) - Edit - with the "Edit" tab selected the project properties are shown as set 2. 4) - Create Video File - with the "Share" tab selected and prior to performing the render the project properties are set 3.
". . . you get out-of-sync problems both when you produce your DVD-compliant video file AND it gets worse when you burn the disc?"
Yes.
"your set 1 of Project Properties seems strange. First it is headed 'Microsoft AVI files', but further down it says 'DVD-PAL', which is most definitely not 'Microsoft AVI' format but mpeg-2. Pls confirm that this is indeed somehow what you have used or whether one of them is a typo. "
Yes this is what was shown in the dialogue box - so not a typo.
"Why have you suddenly started using a completely different Field Order -- changing from the correct Lower Field First in the first two, suddenly to 'Frame based'?"
I have just now repeated the steps as listed in the recommended procedures and UVS8 does show "Frame based" and "DVD-PAL" in the list of properties. So it's what UVS 8 set for me!! Incidentally I also noted that it took about 40 minutes to perform that render if that is of any help.
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Trevor Andrew
Hi
There is a problem when using VS 8 regarding ‘Out of Sync’ audio.
Viewing your finished video that was rendered in Share Create Video File showed no signs even though the file was corrupt.
The problem of OOS only shows after the burner stage and after multiplexing, when creating video file for instance.
Read this for an in-depth explanation.:-
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... =redundant
Cause:-
The OOS occurs when using VS 8 with the main update patch and rendering using Smart Render.
Simple solution:-
1 / Uninstall and re-install VS 8 without the patch( you may have memory leak problems)(not worth the hassle)
OR
2 / At NO time use ‘smart render’ this can be disabled (Create Video File –Options)
OR
3 / Upgrade to VS 9
Stick to the Recommended Procedure, read my Quick Guides from the link below, this may help in keeping your settings correct. (when you render select Pal-Dvd not Mpeg 2) Mpeg 2 defaults to Frame Based………..
If you are using 6000kbps, use the Make Movie manager to make your own templates.
Trevor
There is a problem when using VS 8 regarding ‘Out of Sync’ audio.
Viewing your finished video that was rendered in Share Create Video File showed no signs even though the file was corrupt.
The problem of OOS only shows after the burner stage and after multiplexing, when creating video file for instance.
Read this for an in-depth explanation.:-
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... =redundant
Cause:-
The OOS occurs when using VS 8 with the main update patch and rendering using Smart Render.
Simple solution:-
1 / Uninstall and re-install VS 8 without the patch( you may have memory leak problems)(not worth the hassle)
OR
2 / At NO time use ‘smart render’ this can be disabled (Create Video File –Options)
OR
3 / Upgrade to VS 9
Stick to the Recommended Procedure, read my Quick Guides from the link below, this may help in keeping your settings correct. (when you render select Pal-Dvd not Mpeg 2) Mpeg 2 defaults to Frame Based………..
If you are using 6000kbps, use the Make Movie manager to make your own templates.
Trevor
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s.burnley
Hi Trevor,
Thanks to you too.
I read that excellent thread from Alosada pretty thoroughly but decided that it was not relevant to my situation because I have never used a combination of new video and existing MPEG clips and I have always disabled "Smart Render". Is this correct thinking?
With regard to your point 3 - upgrade to VS9, I have run the same test, capturing from scratch, with the downloaded version of VS9 (with a lot of high hopes!) but giving the same resultant OOS.
Following the comments from Ken, I also reran the render process on my edited file. This time I selected "DVD-PAL" instead of "custom" as the file choice. The project properties seemed to be consistent with the capture and edit properties:-
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first (instead of "frame based" in my original post)
(DVD-PAL), 4.3
Video data rate: variable (Max 8000 kbs)
LPCM audio, 48 kHz, Stereo
On viewing the complete MPG file the result was the same OOS delay of about 1 second at the 44 minute point.
It's this consistency of failure that makes the problem so frustrating.
Finally I shall read your Quick Guides again to see if there's anything I can spot that I might have missed before.
Thanks to you too.
I read that excellent thread from Alosada pretty thoroughly but decided that it was not relevant to my situation because I have never used a combination of new video and existing MPEG clips and I have always disabled "Smart Render". Is this correct thinking?
With regard to your point 3 - upgrade to VS9, I have run the same test, capturing from scratch, with the downloaded version of VS9 (with a lot of high hopes!) but giving the same resultant OOS.
Following the comments from Ken, I also reran the render process on my edited file. This time I selected "DVD-PAL" instead of "custom" as the file choice. The project properties seemed to be consistent with the capture and edit properties:-
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first (instead of "frame based" in my original post)
(DVD-PAL), 4.3
Video data rate: variable (Max 8000 kbs)
LPCM audio, 48 kHz, Stereo
On viewing the complete MPG file the result was the same OOS delay of about 1 second at the 44 minute point.
It's this consistency of failure that makes the problem so frustrating.
Finally I shall read your Quick Guides again to see if there's anything I can spot that I might have missed before.
I used to have the same problem with out of sync audio in VS8 and VS9 before I installed the CD/DVD Burning Patch dated 2005/07/27. After I installed the patch all my OOS problems went away. Link: http://www.ulead.com/tech/general/burning_patch.htm
The patch is for all Ulead products that burn CD/DVDs.
I missed the link to the patch for about a month because it looks like a foot note on the support page.
The patch is for all Ulead products that burn CD/DVDs.
I missed the link to the patch for about a month because it looks like a foot note on the support page.
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s.burnley
Tyamada,
I checked that I had installed the latest burning patch - which I had.
Just for safety, in case UVS 9 had perhaps done something I reinstalled it.
Since checking that, I have re-rendered the video that I captured using the download version of UVS9. (I'm going to stick to UVS 9 - which seems to promise the end of OOS problems.)
On this latest rendered file at the 44 minute checkpoint the audio leads by a sufficiently large amount to be noticeable but probably no more than a quarter of a second. I'll burn another DVD from this file and post another reply.
Please tell me if I am being unreasonable to expect the final DVD be exactly the same from an OOS point of view as the original VHS?
I checked that I had installed the latest burning patch - which I had.
Just for safety, in case UVS 9 had perhaps done something I reinstalled it.
Since checking that, I have re-rendered the video that I captured using the download version of UVS9. (I'm going to stick to UVS 9 - which seems to promise the end of OOS problems.)
On this latest rendered file at the 44 minute checkpoint the audio leads by a sufficiently large amount to be noticeable but probably no more than a quarter of a second. I'll burn another DVD from this file and post another reply.
Please tell me if I am being unreasonable to expect the final DVD be exactly the same from an OOS point of view as the original VHS?
-
Trevor Andrew
-
s.burnley
Last night I completed the DVD burn following the re-render I mentioned in my response to Tyamada.
It still shows a significant OOS - at about .5 second at the 44 minute mark - when it plays on my stand alone DVD player, and this is slightly worse than the rendered file shows on my PC using Windows Media Player.
Given Trevor's response "there should be NO noticeable OOS" there must be an answer somewhere!!
It still shows a significant OOS - at about .5 second at the 44 minute mark - when it plays on my stand alone DVD player, and this is slightly worse than the rendered file shows on my PC using Windows Media Player.
Given Trevor's response "there should be NO noticeable OOS" there must be an answer somewhere!!
As I stated before, I haven't had any problems with OOS. I used to do my video in segments no longer than 20 minutes in length and save as a seperate file and continue to render segments separately, after the entire length of the video was done I put them all together and check to see if everything is in sync. I have not had to do this lately, I consider myself lucky because I have elimitated the OOS problem.
You should try to save your clips to a mpeg file and see if you get OOS problems, if it happens before you burn a DVD than there is a problem with your configuration.
I use a Hauppauge PVR-250 Capture Card to get my VHS tapes into my computer and usually only have to cut the start and the end of my video to get a movie. I use smart render with no OOS problems burning to DVD.
You should try to save your clips to a mpeg file and see if you get OOS problems, if it happens before you burn a DVD than there is a problem with your configuration.
I use a Hauppauge PVR-250 Capture Card to get my VHS tapes into my computer and usually only have to cut the start and the end of my video to get a movie. I use smart render with no OOS problems burning to DVD.
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Trevor Andrew
Hi
Using VS 9
At what point do you first notice the OOS.
Start again with a new capture, watch the ‘Drop Frame Counter’
Lower right of the information window, should be zero, is it?
(only shows during capture)
You captured to Dv-Avi, selecting DV as the format.
Do you see the OOS when viewing this file?(using Windows media player)
Share Create Video File:--You then render the Dv-Avi to Pal-Dvd (Mpeg2)
What settings do you use?
Play this file on your pc using Windows media player.
Do you see the OOS now.
If the file is clean, good we are ready to burn.
Trevor
Using VS 9
At what point do you first notice the OOS.
Start again with a new capture, watch the ‘Drop Frame Counter’
Lower right of the information window, should be zero, is it?
(only shows during capture)
You captured to Dv-Avi, selecting DV as the format.
Do you see the OOS when viewing this file?(using Windows media player)
Share Create Video File:--You then render the Dv-Avi to Pal-Dvd (Mpeg2)
What settings do you use?
Play this file on your pc using Windows media player.
Do you see the OOS now.
If the file is clean, good we are ready to burn.
Trevor
-
skier-hughes
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Re: Continuing problems with audio/video synch
Are you saying when the vhs plays, the audio and video are out of sync?s.burnley wrote: In fact the original test VHS tape is slightly OOS with the video lagging at this point
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s.burnley
Hi,
To answer skier-hughes first - yes I did say that the original VHS tape is OOS but I have checked since and it is not OOS. I have a direct line-in connection to my PC separate from the camcorder Firewire connection. The firewire connection works via the on-board sound and the "WAV" input so it is slightly delayed giving the impression of being OOS.
With regard to Trevor's question and suggestion I did it all again starting from scratch using UVS9 to capture edit and render. Before the capture I wiped mopst of the files off my HDD and defragged it. There was 140GB free.
The drop frame counter during capture was 0. The captured clip, of about an hour's duration, was completely in synch. I wrote in my notes "spot on".
For completeness the project properties were:-
PAL (25fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
Uncompressed
PCM, 44.100 kHZ, 16 bit, Stereo
I then edited the file to alter the start and end points only. Project properties were: -
PAL (25fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
DV encoder - type 1
DV Audio - PAL, 48.000 kHZ, 16 bit, Stereo
It was still in synch.
Then I rendered twice from this edited file. Firstly as "PAL DVD". I unchecked "perform smart render". Project properties were:-
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
(DVD- PAL), 4.3
Video data rate: variable [Max 8000 kBps]
LPCM audio, 48.000, Stereo
This file, viewed with Windows media player showed very slight OOS at the 17minute point, and quite noticeable OOs at the 44 minute point.
So this is the first point at which I notice the OOS.
I then rendered the edited file again - this time as PAL DV (4.3). Project properties were:-
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 4.3, 25 fps
Lower field first
DV video encoder type 2
Interleave audio for every 15 frames
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 bit, Stereo
This file, also viewed with windows media player, showed slight, but just noticeable OOS at the 17 minute point and quite noticeable OOS at the 44 minute point. I have tried to time the OOS at the 44 minute point and I reckon it is about 1/10th second. It's quite noticeable however.
Looking at the project properties I see that the capture audio sample rate is 44,100 but the render sample rates at 48,000. Is this of relevance perhaps?
To answer skier-hughes first - yes I did say that the original VHS tape is OOS but I have checked since and it is not OOS. I have a direct line-in connection to my PC separate from the camcorder Firewire connection. The firewire connection works via the on-board sound and the "WAV" input so it is slightly delayed giving the impression of being OOS.
With regard to Trevor's question and suggestion I did it all again starting from scratch using UVS9 to capture edit and render. Before the capture I wiped mopst of the files off my HDD and defragged it. There was 140GB free.
The drop frame counter during capture was 0. The captured clip, of about an hour's duration, was completely in synch. I wrote in my notes "spot on".
For completeness the project properties were:-
PAL (25fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
Uncompressed
PCM, 44.100 kHZ, 16 bit, Stereo
I then edited the file to alter the start and end points only. Project properties were: -
PAL (25fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
DV encoder - type 1
DV Audio - PAL, 48.000 kHZ, 16 bit, Stereo
It was still in synch.
Then I rendered twice from this edited file. Firstly as "PAL DVD". I unchecked "perform smart render". Project properties were:-
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower field first
(DVD- PAL), 4.3
Video data rate: variable [Max 8000 kBps]
LPCM audio, 48.000, Stereo
This file, viewed with Windows media player showed very slight OOS at the 17minute point, and quite noticeable OOs at the 44 minute point.
So this is the first point at which I notice the OOS.
I then rendered the edited file again - this time as PAL DV (4.3). Project properties were:-
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 4.3, 25 fps
Lower field first
DV video encoder type 2
Interleave audio for every 15 frames
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 bit, Stereo
This file, also viewed with windows media player, showed slight, but just noticeable OOS at the 17 minute point and quite noticeable OOS at the 44 minute point. I have tried to time the OOS at the 44 minute point and I reckon it is about 1/10th second. It's quite noticeable however.
Looking at the project properties I see that the capture audio sample rate is 44,100 but the render sample rates at 48,000. Is this of relevance perhaps?
-
DiscCoasterPro
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:42 pm
I had some OOS problems also, after I purchased the Canopus converter the problems were gone. I believe the less expensive model 55 supports locked audio and video. Dunno if any of that info is important to ya, but I threw it out there for consideration. From their explanation of the OOS problems, it is known and common for this to happen after long captures, and they have addressed the problem in their hardware. Once I read that, it made me a believer, and I tried one. Glad I did.
good luck,
dcp
good luck,
dcp
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s.burnley
Thanks for that thought. I wondered whether my problem was due to using the pass through facility on my camcorder, but I have read several times that this is one of the best methods for creating digital video files.
Also my captured file is absolutely spot on - so why not on the final DVD. I wonder if the UVS-format capture is not tying the audio and video together well enough, but I don't know sufficient about video/PC technology to define where the problem could arise and how it might be combated.
Aaaaaaggggghhhh!!
Sorry about that momentary lapse - you have to let go occasionally!!
Also my captured file is absolutely spot on - so why not on the final DVD. I wonder if the UVS-format capture is not tying the audio and video together well enough, but I don't know sufficient about video/PC technology to define where the problem could arise and how it might be combated.
Aaaaaaggggghhhh!!
Sorry about that momentary lapse - you have to let go occasionally!!