Suggested setup to capture VHS for DVD project?

XOR42 · Post by **XOR42** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:12 pm

Although I've produced countless DV/AVI projects, I've not yet had to capture VHS. I'm now testing MSP8 and trying to make a daughter's gift video DVD from one of her VHS tapes.

So, I'm seeking an good combo of settings to capture VHS (via NTSC) for making a DVD that will play on a TV and on a computer at 640x480 (or ideally larger). I tried capturing at high res for PC display but the settings dropped a zillion frames. Too much horsepower I guess to capture hi-res at 30 fps.

My DV work always imported my camera's DV stream directly to AVI with little hassle and no frames dropped. However, when doing a raw NTSC capture from VHS deck, I'm overwhelmed with all the possible combos of CODEC, resolution, and bitrate and haven't found one that works well. Higher res drops frames or produces jerky motion. Lower res doesn't fill the screen. Other combos trash the quality or don't work at all.

I know there's no single solution but I figured there might be some generic combos that usually work well for what I had thought wold be a very common need (converting VHS for DVD).

I have a 1.7 Ghz PC, a decent capture card with NTSC input, as well as FireWire inputs I use for my video camera captures (works well). I also don't have any problem getting the NTSC input to work - it's just the CODEC, bitrate, and resolution that are confusing me for the capture process itself. Must be a senior moment. Once captured, I will then create a DVD with some menus etc. Since some of the videos are 2 hours, I can't capture directly to AVI which would require a monster storage array.

I'm getting results but they are poor (jerky, or low res, or low quality). Anyone have some thoughts, pointers, or suggested combos that won't further degrade the low quality of VHS and that will play well on PC's and DVD players. I'm trying to avoid testing another 1024+ combinations

Thanks to all.

Terry Stetler · Post by **Terry Stetler** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:32 pm

My best advice is to capture, edit and export in the resolution that the DVD will be authored in: most often 720x480 but 704x480 (atsc D1) & 352x480 (halfD1) are also DVD legal.

640x480 is not DVD legal and transcoding it to a DVD legal format will result in a loss of quality.

XOR42 · Post by **XOR42** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:45 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. Is the capture resolution a spec of the capture card or is the resolution created by the sampling of the device driver that access the card? Most capture cards advertise only 640x480 at 30 fps as their highest setting. I have a LeadTek TV/FM/Capture. I dont think it can work at 720. If it's a factor of the card, any suggestions for one that captures at high res and full framerate that won't break the bank?

Thanks

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:24 am

If any money is going to be spent, I personally would rather increase drive capacity, and (assuming your camera has a pass-thru facility), connect the vhs deck to the camera, and camera to firewire and capture to dv. 2 hrs is ~30GB, not huge by todays standards.

Regards,
Greg

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:14 am

If you want really hassle-free capture and fast results, buy a Canopus ADVC. There are various models, but the 110 is probably a good bet. You plug your VHS player into it, connect to your firewire socket and the signal into your 'puter is DV, exactly like from your camcorder. No dropped frames, no choppy audio, no extra codecs, no settings to worry about. Plug in and go!

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:47 am

I have the ADS Pyro, for me works fine, just thought he has the camera, and may need to spend money on a hard drive, so spending money on a converter may just break that bank!

Regards,
Greg

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:26 pm

XOR42 still hasn't answered if in fact his camcorder has the AV through function. If it has, he would be much better off to get more HDD space, although we don't really know how much he's got there either. Come to think of it, we don't know much about anything he has got, do we?

XOR42 · Post by **XOR42** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:07 pm

Wow! Just entered my query and have people waiting for a reply! This forum is GREAT!

1. Sony Camcorder Passthrough: Researched just now. Seems Sony TVR510 is a "1st gen" model ("1" in model no) and does NOT allow NTSC-DV conversion/passthrough without a hack using a weird hardware cable and a software hack program I found. What the TVR510 CAN do is RECORD from NTSC then play it back thorugh DV. This would be a problem since DV tapes are only 60 mins, it would take twice as long to do the job, and I assume there would be some generational degradation. It can ALSO pass through to DV, a live video feed while in record mode - making it like a webcam. What it can't seem to do is take NTSC IN, convert it, and pass it through to DV out. Anyone know anything different on this?

2. Canopus and Pyro boxes: Researched those just now. I've not had the greatest experience with past ADS products (drive enclosures) in the past. The worked OK when they did but had quirks/problems and not super support. However, their prices seem great (Pyro was lowest at $140). I also looked at the Canopus devices. They "seem" VERY capable, more pro, and much pricier (ADVC110=$230, ADVC300=$420). Any thoughts on the merits of the these products? And do they deal with VHS copy protection problems?

Thanks for all your help.

ten18 · Post by **ten18** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:40 am

I have both the ADS Pyro card and the ADVC300 and would recommend both. I capture HDV video with the Pyro and it works very well.

I recently completed my first VHS to .avi conversion with the ADVC300 and it did an exceptional job. Probably didn't hurt that I also have a new Panasonic AG-1980 SVHS VCR (which I bought specifically to digitize a whole bunch of old VHS-C tapes), but the 300 probably would have done a fine job with any VCR. Yes, the 300 was pricey, but for preserving precious recordings, it was worth it.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:54 am

If you want quality at a lower price, you may be able to pick up a second-hand ADVC-100 on ebay or elsewhere. Yes, the ADVC-100 and 300 do allow copy-protected tapes to be captured (don't know about the -110).

XOR42 · Post by **XOR42** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:38 pm

Tks to all. Based on your comments, product specs and other reviews, I broke the bank and ordered both the MSP v8 upgrade and the Canopus ADVC-300. The ADVC300's full bidirectionality (FW,SV,Composite), additional processing, and special modes made me take the risk.

I hope to use it for my PC setup to capture/process old analog & Hi8 cam tapes played on Sony TVR510's vcam via its DV out and ancient VHS played on a Sony SL-696 via its composite out. Will also try as an in-line processor between my Stereo and Philips DVD recorder to make quick DVD copies of tapes played off my Sony SVHS deck. Will report on my success once I have used it a bit. Fingers crossed.

Q: Anyone have experience using MSP8 to recognizing and capture DV stream from the ADVC300? Tks again.

ten18 · Post by **ten18** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:30 pm

I actually used VS9 with my ADVC300. It wouldn't work with MS7, and I just recently downloaded MS8, so I haven't had a chance to try it yet. I think I'll give that a shot today, since I'm hoping to use MS8 for the rest of my conversions (although VS9 works just as well for this type of work).

Keith
ten18

XOR42 · Post by **XOR42** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:12 pm

Does VS9 means Vegas Studio 9?

I would guess for MSP to recognize ADVC's DV feed, it would require either that the ADVC appear as a standard FireWire VCam with appropriate handshaking or that Canopus supplies a video device driver that we could then select in MSP in the device selection panel.

Was there a driver disk with the ADVC? If so, did you load the driver and try to select it in MSP 7/8 which should then allow you to select it in the device selection dialog? If you got that far, then there probably would be an input select sub-option to select the appropriate ADVC input.

Just shooting wildly in the dark here

ten18 · Post by **ten18** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:11 pm

Actually VS9, meaning Ulead Video Studio 9 - I didn't need to load a capture driver for the ADVC - VS9 eventually recognized it as "MSDV Unknown" after some manipulation (I don't remember exactly what that was, but I'll try it again and let you know). That leads me to believe that it would work with MSP8, since they should have the same capture driver (?). I'm converting some HDV files right now, but as soon as they're done, I'll plug in the ADVC and see what MSP thinks about it.

Keith
ten18

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:26 am

I don't know about the ADVC-300, as I have a -100, but I've used it with all varieties of MSP 7.n and 8.0. I cannot see any reason why the -300 should not work with 7.n (in fact it does, as I've seen users on the Canopus forum mention it). All the ADVCs just output a standard DV stream and MSP Capture just sees it as if it were coming from a DV cam. There must be something wrong with the set-up if it doesn't work. I'm very confident that it will work first time with your MSP8 and you will be delighted with it.