MSP8 - problem downconverting HDV to DVD-compliant MPEG

ten18 · Post by **ten18** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:53 pm

I'm trying to determine the best workflow for outputting HDV footage to DVD. My goal is to get the best DVD quality possible, while preserving my HDV capture for output in WMV-HD or DVD-HD (whenever that happens) I have a Sony FX1.

Right now, I'm capturing in HDV (native 16:9), and editing the HDV footage in MSP8. Unfortunately, I am having some trouble with the downconversion to a DVD-compliant MPEG file.

If I output my project to an HDV file, and then convert the HDV file to a DVD-compliant MPEG in MSP8, I get awesome DVD video quality, but I also get horrific artifacts/distortion during pan/zoom movements. If the camera is stationary and people are moving in the scene, there is no distortion. If I play the HDV file directly in the viewer, I don't see the artifacts, so they are definitely created/caused by/during the conversion.

If I output my project directly to a DVD-compliant MPEG file, I don't get the artifacts, but the picture quality is just average.

Also, when I output to a DVD-compliant MPEG in 4:3, MSP8 doesn't resize the frames, but instead crops the right side. If I output in HDV 4:3, MSP8 will resize the frames.

Has anyone else experienced this? Could it be a hardware issue? I have been having a disk performance issue (I'm using U320 SCSI, but I suspect my throughput is low). If I can solve the first problem (i.e., clean conversion from HDV to DVD), the second problem (cropping) won't be an issue.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Keith
ten18

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:05 am

I've never done HDV, so I can't speak from experience, but what you describe happens when you try to convert an HD interlaced to SD, because it works in blocks of lines. If you do a search of this forum, you will find a more detailed description.

krwzmann · Post by **krwzmann** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:40 am

Hey there Ten18. I to am a FX1 owner. Great video camera! When rendering as a dvd compliant file, did you check your video bit rate settings and the video quality settings? I think by default for DVD settings, MSP8 sets the quality level to less than the best so if you havent already you could try to look at that. Hopefully thats it!

ten18 · Post by **ten18** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:02 pm

Devil, krwzmann. . .Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I love that camera. I love it even more when I can start producing some good quality output!

I thought I set the video bitrate to 9200kbps, and the quality to 100%, but I'll have to try it again with those settings.

Maybe "artifact" isn't a good definition for what's happening - during pans and zooms (and sometimes when there's a lot of motion in the frame), the edges of people or object become very pixelated/blocky. As soon as the camera (or object) stops, the picture returns to normal. It's kind of a bummer, because converting the file results in much higher DVD video quality than does creating the DVD file straight from the timeline.

I'll try it again with the highest bitrate possible and see what happens.

Thanks again.

Keith
ten18

krwzmann · Post by **krwzmann** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:41 pm

Are you viewing the converted video video file on your computer screen or on a television set? If you're viewing the converted file on your computer screen, it should be converted with the option 'perform non square pixel rendering' not checked. If you're going to view it on a television, the 'perform non square pixel rendering' should be checked. Hope that helps anything.

randazzo · Post by **randazzo** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:05 am

Looks like your field order is wrong.

Jean-Pierre

ten18 · Post by **ten18** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:00 pm

randazzo, krwzmann - Thanks. Sounds like good advice. The artifacting happens whether I play the file on my PC, or view it on the TV. I think I rendered my test file with the non-square pixel box unchecked.

randazzo - being relatively new at this, I'm running everything at default settings. What should I look for relative to field order?

randazzo · Post by **randazzo** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:20 pm

Well, depending on the country-TV-signal the DVD-file needs to be rendered with the lower field first (for PAL) or upper field first (for NTSC).

If you have this "teeth" at moving edges this could be the problem.

Jean-Pierre

ten18 · Post by **ten18** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:52 pm

You guys definitely pointed me in the right direction! After a little research, I determined that I needed to deinterlace my clips. Once I did that, problem solved! Now I can save my HDV masters, and then output in whatever format is necessary.

I guess it pays to check out all of the features of a program before you start using it!

Thanks!!

Keith
ten18

johnpr98 · Post by **johnpr98** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:57 pm

Well, depending on the country-TV-signal the DVD-file needs to be rendered with the lower field first (for PAL) or upper field first (for NTSC).

Pardon?

I don't understand the reasoning of this remark

FX1 HDV video is Upper field first

randazzo · Post by **randazzo** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:10 pm

I don't understand the nature of your response.

If you do not know the difference between NTSC and PAL and the consequence for the field-distribution please do some research and don't bother us.
[/quote]

robtywlak · Post by **robtywlak** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:42 pm

Shooting in Progressive Frame mode with the FX1 will solve the issue and Field order becomes a mute point. "Film" is allways progressive frames and progressive frames will display correctly in either field order on a TV but the reverse is not true - Field based video HAS TO HAVE THE SAME FIELD ORDER in playback.

Regards,

Rob Tywlak

johnpr98 · Post by **johnpr98** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:50 pm

Hi

I understand Field Order & the consequences of using the wrong Field Order

I also understand PAL & NTSC, which isn't a factor in HDV
It may be worth reading this thread
http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.p ... 839&page=5

Why do you think PAL & NTSC have different Field rules?
Do you have a source or link to back this up?

Analogue & DV are the biggest factors in Field order IMHO
Analogue is mostly Upper Field, DV is mainly Lower Field

There are exceptions though

Regards

johnpr98 · Post by **johnpr98** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:58 pm

http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/article.php? ... on-the-HDR

How the Film and Progressive Modes Work on the HDR-FX1

by Kerr Cook

The HDR-FX1 is designed around interlaced video, reflecting Sony's commitment to the 1080i flavor of HDV. Thus, the recording modes are DV (480i) and HDV (1080/60i) with a CineFrame24 special mode designed to give a "film like" effect.

While the unit cannot record in progressive modes, to support common HDV standards it will play back 720p video recorded on the MiniDV tape.