Audio Sync problem

phd · Post by **phd** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:58 pm

OK. Lets try to separate out the items for each person:

kmith:

Just my initials, but I feel I obtained a doctorate in long term suffering in video capture, editing and authoring!

Could you answer these questions to start.
What version of DMF do you have?
What is your capture device for the MPEGs?
What are the capture properties?
What is the total size in MB of all the files you are attempting to put on the DVD?
Are the MPEGs you load into DMF exactly the same including audio? Load the MPEG into DMF. Selct them one at a time. Right click and select properties to view it.
What are the DMF project properties?
Do you have "Do not convert compliant..." checked?
How long is it taking to render to a DVD folder on the hard drive?

Depending on your capture source and type of video, that may help drive your selection. If your source video contains AC3 audio and you don't have a version of DMF that supports it you will have problems.

Shannon:

It seems that the audio is correct, but the video is faster after I save it as a dvd file to hd and also when I burn it to disk.

I've never seen this particular problem except when I've set some chapter points (the fix for that was to move the chapter point by a gop either way so it plays normal in preview), but I'll try to help.

You wrote the following:

Source files

Video
NTSC DVD
MPEG-2 Upper field
24 bit 720x480 16:9
29.9 frames/sec
Variable bit rate 1200kbps

Audio
Digital dolby audio
48000 hz
bit rate 192 kbps

Here are the properties of the dvd.

Video :
MPEG-2 Video
16:9 Ratio
720 x 480 Size
74934 Frames
9000 Kbits/sec

Audio :
Dolby AC-3 Audio
stereo Mode
48.00 kHz
2 Channel(s)

Something seems awful funny here. The data rate of your source files are beyond normal DVD specs. Did you mean 1200 or 12000?
The properties of the DVD that you list above. Is this the project properties or the properties of the outputted DVD?

To reiterate the above questions for clarification:

What version of DMF do you have?
What is your capture device for the MPEGs?
What are the capture properties?
What is the total size in MB of all the files you are attempting to put on the DVD?
Are the MPEGs you load into DMF exactly the same including audio? Load the MPEG into DMF. Selct them one at a time. Right click and select properties to view it.
What are the DMF project properties?
Do you have "Do not convert compliant..." checked?
How long is it taking to render to a DVD folder on the hard drive?

kmith · Post by **kmith** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:31 pm

PHD, Thank you for taking such an interest in Shannon and my plight.
Here are answers to your exellent questions:
[quote="phd"]

What version of DMF do you have? 2.5SE
What is your capture device for the MPEGs? Winfast TV2000 Deluxe TV tuner card
What are the capture properties?
File
MPEG-2
2,698,882 kb
3511.778 seonds

Video
MPEG-2 Video Field A
105,248 Frames
24 bits 640x480
29.97 frames/sec
Variable bit rate max 6,000kbps

Audio
MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
154,869,429 Samples
44100 Hz 16 Bit Stereo
2 Layers
224kbps

What is the total size in MB of all the files you are attempting to put on the DVD? 2.4 GB
Are the MPEGs you load into DMF exactly the same including audio? The only change I have made is to cut out commercials and to split the original file into 15-minute segments.
Load the MPEG into DMF. Selct them one at a time. Right click and select properties to view it.
What are the DMF project properties?
MPEG files
24 Bit, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

Do you have "Do not convert compliant..." checked? Yes
How long is it taking to render to a DVD folder on the hard drive? About an hour.

phd · Post by **phd** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:58 pm

Hi Kmith,

PHD, Thank you for taking such an interest in Shannon and my plight.
-You're welcome. I'll see what I can do

What version of DMF do you have? 2.5SE
-OK. I have had success with DMF2LE. Close enough

What is your capture device for the MPEGs? Winfast TV2000 Deluxe TV tuner card
-Not familiar with that card but I have the Hauppauge WinTV250

What are the capture properties?
File
MPEG-2
2,698,882 kb
3511.778 seonds

Video
MPEG-2 Video Field A
105,248 Frames
24 bits 640x480
29.97 frames/sec
Variable bit rate max 6,000kbps

Audio
MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
154,869,429 Samples
44100 Hz 16 Bit Stereo
2 Layers
224kbps

-Field A bothers me. We'll have to see what the clip properties are listed in DMF as. Usually analog capture devices are listed in Ulead products as "Field B" or "Upper Field First". 640X480bothers me. Its not DVD compliant so it will have to reencode the video. Can you capture at 720X480 (Full D1) or 352X480 (1/2D1)? It will prevent rerendering of the video. The audio is also not compliant so DMF will have to reencode that as well. Can you capture in 48KHz rather than 44.1KHz?

What is the total size in MB of all the files you are attempting to put on the DVD? 2.4 GB
-Good. Small enough to fit on a DVD if we could prevent reencoding.

Are the MPEGs you load into DMF exactly the same including audio? The only change I have made is to cut out commercials and to split the original file into 15-minute segments.
-Editing in DMF will force reencoding unfortunately which, for me, has always created an audio sync problem. Not necessarily every file but pretty bad.

Load the MPEG into DMF. Selct them one at a time. Right click and select properties to view it.
- Could you check this in DMF? When you go to the second screen in DMF (The Add/Edit Media page) right click on the file in the timeline and select "Media Clip Properties". What are the paramteres listed in DMF?

What are the DMF project properties?
MPEG files
24 Bit, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo
-As you can see the project properties do not come close to your clip properties. Being that you are not capturing in DVD compliant MPEG, it will be rendering Video and audio. Also the field order is not listed which can cauyse a sync problem. Did you add the line "Advance=1" to the DMF.INI file on your computer? so you enable viewing the advanced settings. I have a feeling with it not being compliant, DMF is also reencoding the Field order to DV video rather than analog as well.

Do you have "Do not convert compliant..." checked? Yes
This won't matter unless you can capture compliant video.

How long is it taking to render to a DVD folder on the hard drive? About an hour.
-Which is really an excellent time considering it has to reencode. Ican author about a 4 GB DVD to a folder in approximately 20-30 minutes so yours could be less if we can prevent reencoding in the future.

Let me know if you can adjust the capture settings with your card to be DVD compliant and what DMF lists the clips properties as. Also, if you can, add these lines to the INI file in the [VIO DRIVER] section. These will help with audio sync issues.
CloseAudioDTR=1
AlwaysAudioSeek=1
AlwaysVideoSeek=1
The instructions for how to locate it are in the post:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11

Good luck,
Pat

elway7 · Post by **elway7** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:23 am

phd,

To answer your questions:

What version of DMF do you have? Ulead Movie Factory 3
What is the total size in MB of all the files you are attempting to put on the DVD? The Mpegs are 798 and 799 megs
Are the MPEGs you load into DMF exactly the same including audio? Load the MPEG into DMF. Selct them one at a time. Right click and select properties to view it.

File Format - NTSC DVD
File Size - 818,468 KB
Duration - 2787.321 seconds

Video
Video Type - Mpeg -2 video, upper field first
Total frames - 83,536 frames
Attributes - 24 bits, 352 x 480, 4:3
Frame Rate: 29.970 Frame/sec
Data Rate - Variable bit rate (max2530 kbps)

Audio
Audiio type - mpeg audio layer 2 files
Total samples - 133,791,391 samples
Attributes - 48000hz, 16 but, stereo
Layer - 2
Bit Rate - 244d kbps

What are the DMF project properties? mpeg files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
(dvd-ntsc), 4:3
video data rate: Variable (max 7000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 hz, stereo

Do you have "Do not convert compliant..." checked? Yes

How long is it taking to render to a DVD folder on the hard drive? After clicking output to dvd folder 20- 30 minutes

Have tried converting to dvd folder for the vob. Then I used Ulead DVD player to play the vob to see if the audio is off from video.

shannon · Post by **shannon** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:59 am

I think there was a misunderstanding. I made the dvd's already, 3 in all and I'm importing them into DMF to build another dvd with menus. I'm not importing mpegs. The dvd's are imported into the project and preview with no problem at all, even after I add menus and the preview them with the menus added, it's after I save the project as a new dvd.

phd · Post by **phd** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:05 am

Hi Elway,

What version of DMF do you have? Ulead Movie Factory 3
-OK

What is the total size in MB of all the files you are attempting to put on the DVD? The Mpegs are 798 and 799 megs
-Files are small enough to pass through unconverted.

Are the MPEGs you load into DMF exactly the same including audio? Load the MPEG into DMF. Selct them one at a time. Right click and select properties to view it.

File Format - NTSC DVD
File Size - 818,468 KB
Duration - 2787.321 seconds

Video
Video Type - Mpeg -2 video, upper field first
Total frames - 83,536 frames
Attributes - 24 bits, 352 x 480, 4:3
Frame Rate: 29.970 Frame/sec
Data Rate - Variable bit rate (max2530 kbps)

Audio
Audiio type - mpeg audio layer 2 files
Total samples - 133,791,391 samples
Attributes - 48000hz, 16 but, stereo
Layer - 2
Bit Rate - 244d kbps
- Are you sure about the 244 or this was a typo and its 224.

What are the DMF project properties? mpeg files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
(dvd-ntsc), 4:3
video data rate: Variable (max 7000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 hz, stereo
-Try changing project to "Long Play". Select the gear icon at the bottom. Click "Change MPEG Settings" and select "Long Play". Make sure "Do not convert..." remains checked and click OK. (You'll notice the Project audio is switched to MPEG.)

Do you have "Do not convert compliant..." checked? Yes
-OK

How long is it taking to render to a DVD folder on the hard drive? After clicking output to dvd folder 20- 30 minutes
-That's a good time.

Have tried converting to dvd folder for the vob. Then I used Ulead DVD player to play the vob to see if the audio is off from video.

Also, if you can, add these lines to the INI file in the [VIO DRIVER] section. These will help with audio sync issues.
CloseAudioDTR=1
AlwaysAudioSeek=1
AlwaysVideoSeek=1
Advance=1
The instructions for how to locate it are in the post:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11
The Advance=1 line we may need later to create a custom profile if this doesn't work so may as well add now.
If you can't locate it, please let me know what OS you are using?

A few questions as well.
What is your capture card?
Have you edited the files before importing into DMF? If so, what did you use?
Are you editing in DMF?
I assume no motion menus are added?

If you are editing the files either before or within DMF, I would recommend editing with VideoReDo instead. Free trial available. Make sure to request a trial key for full functionality during the trial period. Unedited files can also benefit from it by using the "Quick Stream Fix" or a simple remuxby loading the file and resaving to a new output file. It will ensure good frame alignment between audio and video and take care of the audio sync issues.

phd · Post by **phd** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:33 am

shannon wrote:I think there was a misunderstanding. I made the dvd's already, 3 in all and I'm importing them into DMF to build another dvd with menus. I'm not importing mpegs. The dvd's are imported into the project and preview with no problem at all, even after I add menus and the preview them with the menus added, it's after I save the project as a new dvd.

Hi Shannon,

Preview always looks good because the files are still unmodified. These audio sync problems always show up after rendering. It seems to be something with the files. If there are hiccups in either the audio or video stream, DMF can't handle it well. A lot of software players have some kind of error correction that maintains sync on the raw files.

Were these DVDs previously created in DMF? I assume this is home video that you have previously created a DVD from?
Since you are also importing from 3 different DVDs Do all have the same properties? Double check each of the imported clips to make sure.
Go to your capture directory in windows explorer . Default is usually in My Documents/Ulead DVD Movie Factory/2.0 or 3.0/Capture. Play them in another player. For example Media Player. Make sure they do look in-sync outside of DMF.
Are you doing any additional editing of the separated videos that you have imported from the DVDs?
Since they have been extracted already to the capture directory, you can also try importing them to DMF directly from there now as well.

Also, anyone following this thread. As previously mentioned, I am making the assumption that you have installed the latest patches and update for your product as well as the "Burning Engine" update.

kmith · Post by **kmith** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:06 am

phd wrote: PHD,

I apologize for sending you bogus info. I grabbed an old file in haste. My current files have the proper video (720x480) and audio (48k) properties.
My problem was believing that DMF worked as advertised. Silly me.
I have since downloaded Redo as you suggested and have done my cutting using Redo.
My audio sync problems have disappeared, but spltting MPEGs on DVD boundaries with Redo is painful.
Any suggestions?

What is your capture device for the MPEGs? Winfast TV2000 Deluxe TV tuner card
-Not familiar with that card but I have the Hauppauge WinTV250
The tuner card is made by Leadtek of Taiwan.
http://www.leadtek.com/multimedia/winfa ... uxe_1.html

What is the total size in MB of all the files you are attempting to put on the DVD? 2.4 GB
-Good. Small enough to fit on a DVD if we could prevent reencoding.
The Sound of Music was a 3-hour + movie on TV. It's difficult to cut and paste to DVD boundaries. I wish DMF's split feature worked.

Are the MPEGs you load into DMF exactly the same including audio? The only change I have made is to cut out commercials and to split the original file into 15-minute segments.
-Editing in DMF will force reencoding unfortunately which, for me, has always created an audio sync problem. Not necessarily every file but pretty bad.
Yes, my sin was to use the cut feature of DMF.

Do you have "Do not convert compliant..." checked? Yes
This won't matter unless you can capture compliant video.
DMF no longer converts. This has made a major speed difference.

How long is it taking to render to a DVD folder on the hard drive? About an hour.
-Which is really an excellent time considering it has to reencode. Ican author about a 4 GB DVD to a folder in approximately 20-30 minutes so yours could be less if we can prevent reencoding in the future.
My recent MPEGs process really fast because of proper specs.

phd · Post by **phd** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:34 am

Hi Kmith,

I apologize for sending you bogus info. I grabbed an old file in haste. My current files have the proper video (720x480) and audio (48k) properties.
My problem was believing that DMF worked as advertised. Silly me.
I have since downloaded Redo as you suggested and have done my cutting using Redo.
My audio sync problems have disappeared, but spltting MPEGs on DVD boundaries with Redo is painful.
Any suggestions?
-Fairly easy to solve. In the lower right corner of VideoReDo is the time box. Click the little icon there that says "Switch". Time display will switch to MB display. You can now see where you are in terms of file size. If you load your output file that has been edited you can move the cursor until you reach the size file you want and delete the rest of it. Output the first part. Reload the full output file again delete the beginning part and output the second half of the file as a separate file. Author then with DMF. A rough guesstimate. You should be able to fit at least 3.8 GB per DVD withjout a problem in DMF.

The Sound of Music was a 3-hour + movie on TV. It's difficult to cut and paste to DVD boundaries. I wish DMF's split feature worked.
-What is the total size of the file? You might be able to just split in 1/2 with VideoReDo now. Then author 2 separate DVDs

Yes, my sin was to use the cut feature of DMF.
-Yes, we all were sinners oncce!:D

DMF no longer converts. This has made a major speed difference.
-Glad it helped.

My recent MPEGs process really fast because of proper specs.
-Glad its painless and fast now.

shannon · Post by **shannon** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:12 pm

phd wrote:Hi Shannon,

Preview always looks good because the files are still unmodified. These audio sync problems always show up after rendering. It seems to be something with the files. If there are hiccups in either the audio or video stream, DMF can't handle it well. A lot of software players have some kind of error correction that maintains sync on the raw files.

Were these DVDs previously created in DMF? I assume this is home video that you have previously created a DVD from?
Since you are also importing from 3 different DVDs Do all have the same properties? Double check each of the imported clips to make sure.
Go to your capture directory in windows explorer . Default is usually in My Documents/Ulead DVD Movie Factory/2.0 or 3.0/Capture. Play them in another player. For example Media Player. Make sure they do look in-sync outside of DMF.
Are you doing any additional editing of the separated videos that you have imported from the DVDs?
Since they have been extracted already to the capture directory, you can also try importing them to DMF directly from there now as well.

Also, anyone following this thread. As previously mentioned, I am making the assumption that you have installed the latest patches and update for your product as well as the "Burning Engine" update.

Were these DVDs previously created in DMF? No, WinAVI

I assume this is home video that you have previously created a DVD from? They were all home video I played on my vcr and captured through my tvcard and saved as avi. Then I converted to dvd through WinAVI

Since you are also importing from 3 different DVDs Do all have the same properties? They are all from the same video tape then what I did was break them into separate clips to get rid of the unwanted material (xmas and easter stuff) before converting to dvd so they are the same properties

Go to your capture directory in windows explorer . Default is usually in My Documents/Ulead DVD Movie Factory/2.0 or 3.0/Capture. Play them in another player. For example Media Player. Make sure they do look in-sync outside of DMF. They have been played numerous times and are definately in-sync.

Also, anyone following this thread. As previously mentioned, I am making the assumption that you have installed the latest patches and update for your product as well as the "Burning Engine" update. Everything is updated

lastnight I burnt them using CopytoDVD and they played perfect, but I want to put them on a dvd with menus using dmf.

I greatly appreciate any help you can provide,
Shannon

elway7 · Post by **elway7** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:28 pm

Phd,

You are right the audio was 224 not 244 kbps.

Also, if you can, add these lines to the INI file in the [VIO DRIVER] section. These will help with audio sync issues.
CloseAudioDTR=1
AlwaysAudioSeek=1
AlwaysVideoSeek=1
Advance=1
The instructions for how to locate it are in the post:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11
The Advance=1 line we may need later to create a custom profile if this doesn't work so may as well add now.
If you can't locate it, please let me know what OS you are using?

Added this to the ini file and then restarted MF and tried the two Mpegs agian but still the same...both mpegs audio is off.

-Try changing project to "Long Play". Select the gear icon at the bottom. Click "Change MPEG Settings" and select "Long Play". Make sure "Do not convert..." remains checked and click OK. (You'll notice the Project audio is switched to MPEG.)

When i try to select long play I get the error message "there is a conflict between your audio setting and the "Treat MPEG audio as Non dvd compliant" option.

Have you edited the files before importing into DMF? If so, what did you use?
THe mpegs were as is with no editing before. All I did was try to import them into MF and then to dvd folder for the vob. THe mpegs play fine when watching them before compling.

I assume no motion menus are added?

I have tried with and withour motion menu and I still get the audio off from video.

As for Videoredo....how does that work? I import the mpeg files and then what?

elway7 · Post by **elway7** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:02 pm

phd,

I forgot the capture device...it is legacy video capture devices

gastro · Post by **gastro** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:05 pm

elway7 wrote:Phd,

As for Videoredo....how does that work? I import the mpeg files and then what?

Unless you are doing some editing you need to select "QuickStream Fix" from the "Tools" menu. This will create a new file. after VRD scans, finds & fixes audio sync issues.

If you are editing, then when you save the file, it will fix those issues then.

kmith · Post by **kmith** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:55 pm

PHD,

First let me thank you for your advice. Knowing what features don't work is as important as knoing those that do work.

In the lower right corner of VideoReDo is the time box. Click the little icon there that says "Switch". Time display will switch to MB display. You can now see where you are in terms of file size. If you load your output file that has been edited you can move the cursor until you reach the size file you want and delete the rest of it. Output the first part. Reload the full output file again delete the beginning part and output the second half of the file as a separate file. Author then with DMF. A rough guesstimate. You should be able to fit at least 3.8 GB per DVD withjout a problem in DMF.

Thank you for the pointer.

I used to try to do everything DMF, but now I am using 3 tools:

1. Using Vsual Redo, I cut commercials out and create 15 minute chapter MPEG files.
2. Using DMF, I collect the MPEG files for one DVD, set up the menus, and create a disk image file.
3. Using Nero Burning ROM, I write the image file to DVD.

Is this the right approach?
Is this more complicated than it needs to be?

phd · Post by **phd** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:25 am

Hi Kmith,

"I used to try to do everything DMF, but now I am using 3 tools:"

1. Using Vsual Redo, I cut commercials out and create 15 minute chapter MPEG files.
-You could make them longer and set chapter points in DMF if you prefer. I don't have sync problems setting chapter points in DMF after editing and outputting in VideoReDo. Just a matter of personal preference.

2. Using DMF, I collect the MPEG files for one DVD, set up the menus, and create a disk image file.
-I personally author to a DVD folder on the hard drive so I can use a DVD player on the computer to confirm sync. If the ISO file works for you stick with it. Again, personal preference.

3. Using Nero Burning ROM, I write the image file to DVD.
-If its working, its good!

Is this the right approach?
-Basically yes. If you get audio sync its right as far as I'm concerned (and also you.!)

Is this more complicated than it needs to be?
-Not really. You had 3 steps before. 1. Editing in DMF, 2. Create menus and author in DMF, 3. Burn in DMF.
You're using different tools to accomplish the same basic steps. VideoReDo edits quicker and by bringing in files that DMF does not have to reencode, you are saving time. So not really more complicated and the most important thing is that you get good sync.
What good is easier if it doesn't work?