Track syncing issues in 2022

[jungleexplorer]

So, I reinstalled VS 2022 and did not install the update, but I am having trouble with track syncing. Say I want to split the main track and an overlay track in the same spot. I place the line where I want to split the tracks and split the main track and then select and split the overlay in the same spot, but when the overlay splits, it is always offset a little from where the main track was slipt. I have never had this problem for as long as I have been using VS. Also, when adding new videos to the main track, while having all tracks locked to position, it throws the syncing of the whole project out of whack.

Any advice On this? Is anyone else having this issue? I am seeing it on both my Desktop and Laptop.

[Ken Berry]

How do you measure where to split exactly at the same point in the main and overlay tracks?

Personally, I would be extending the video out to its maximum zoom on both tracks so that you can see the video frame literally by frame. You put the mouse cursor in the track you are dealing with and hold down the Ctrl key while you roll the mouse wheel. That way you can see exactly where you want to split the main track. Then you can spit the overlay at the same point exactly.

[jungleexplorer]

How do you measure where to split exactly at the same point in the main and overlay tracks?

Personally, I would be extending the video out to its maximum zoom on both tracks so that you can see the video frame literally by frame. You put the mouse cursor in the track you are dealing with and hold down the Ctrl key while you roll the mouse wheel. That way you can see exactly where you want to split the main track. Then you can spit the overlay at the same point exactly.

I have been using VS for almost 20 years and have done possibly millions of splits. This is not an error on my part. The program is literally moving the split point after I click it. It is not splitting where the line is. It splits the main track in the right place, but offsets the overlay a little every single time. It is a glitch and it does it on two different computers. It's not a massive problem. I can zoom in and line the tracks up again, but it is an irritation.

Additionally, the line is one step offset from the end of the overlay video when dragging the video frame. For example, say I want to drag the end of the overlay to a new spot (not the whole video, just the end). When I click on the video handle and drag, the position line is one step offset from where the handle is. I am in the middle of a big render right now, but when it finishes, I will do a screen capture if you don't understand what I am saying.

[lata]

Hi
When you do the cut are you in Project mode? all timelines will / should be cut on the same frame.
Or
In a clip mode when you may need to cut twice.
Ken asked “how do you measure” so what is the difference, one second or one frame???
How far out is this cut?

[jungleexplorer]

I created a screen capture to demonstrate what I am talking about. Again, I have never seen VS behave this way in the 20+ years I have been using it.

https://youtu.be/QH_DsfjWtCk

[Ken Berry]

Thanks for the video -- hopefully Trevor will comment, although he may already have gone to bed in England. I personally have rarely had to voice or music sync clips, so my comment is just based on what I have seen in your clip.

First off, I noted that you had in fact expanded the timeline out so that what appeared was a frame by frame version of your video, both in the main timeline and in the overlay track. So I can easily accept that the cut would have been at exactly the same spot in both timeline and overlay.

However, I also noted that you didn't cut on the line between frames, but somewhere back or in front of the end or start of a frame. That would also have been the case in the overlay frame. Now here, I have to quickly say I know you say you have done this many times before with no trouble.

But this time you are doing it in VS 2022 for the first time. I am totally unaware of any changes that were included by Corel/Alludo in 2022, so of course I have no idea if they inserted something which affected how VS reads parts of frames. But given the other problems that were shown when upgrading with SP2, it is still a possibility that there are other problems we were previously unaware of affecting VS 2022 build 472 i.e. without SP2 creating new problems.

I confess I worry about those cut frames or the amount of the frames through which the cut was made, with a little bit left over at the beginning of the full frame yet to come, and a large bit after the last full frame of the preceding clip. Now a logical inference would be that since both main timeline and overlay were cut in the same place, both should be treated equally. But what if there is something new in 2022 which looks at, say Clip 1 in the overlay track and says, there's a bit at the end which serves no purpose, so let's ignore it. And you in effect lose that part of a frame at that point in that part of the overlay. The same would obviously also occur in the main timeline track. Equally, VS could look at Clip 2 and see a small bit of a frame preceding the first full frame, and say to itself again, let's ignore it and start the video and audio at the start of the first full frame. So again you lose a bit of a frame, and overall, with the two bits ignored, a frame has gone.

As I say, this is pure speculation on my part and it runs against your previous wide experience in sync questions. But with other problems now showing with aspects of VS 2022, we might need to be thinking this sync problem could be a new problem we weren't previously aware of. Hopefully, though, you or Trevor or someone else will shoot me down!

[jungleexplorer]

Thanks for the video -- hopefully Trevor will comment, although he may already have gone to bed in England. I personally have rarely had to voice or music sync clips, so my comment is just based on what I have seen in your clip.

First off, I noted that you had in fact expanded the timeline out so that what appeared was a frame by frame version of your video, both in the main timeline and in the overlay track. So I can easily accept that the cut would have been at exactly the same spot in both timeline and overlay.

However, I also noted that you didn't cut on the line between frames, but somewhere back or in front of the end or start of a frame. That would also have been the case in the overlay frame. Now here, I have to quickly say I know you say you have done this many times before with no trouble.

But this time you are doing it in VS 2022 for the first time. I am totally unaware of any changes that were included by Corel/Alludo in 2022, so of course I have no idea if they inserted something which affected how VS reads parts of frames. But given the other problems that were shown when upgrading with SP2, it is still a possibility that there are other problems we were previously unaware of affecting VS 2022 build 472 i.e. without SP2 creating new problems.

I confess I worry about those cut frames or the amount of the frames through which the cut was made, with a little bit left over at the beginning of the full frame yet to come, and a large bit after the last full frame of the preceding clip. Now a logical inference would be that since both main timeline and overlay were cut in the same place, both should be treated equally. But what if there is something new in 2022 which looks at, say Clip 1 in the overlay track and says, there's a bit at the end which serves no purpose, so let's ignore it. And you in effect lose that part of a frame at that point in that part of the overlay. The same would obviously also occur in the main timeline track. Equally, VS could look at Clip 2 and see a small bit of a frame preceding the first full frame, and say to itself again, let's ignore it and start the video and audio at the start of the first full frame. So again you lose a bit of a frame, and overall, with the two bits ignored, a frame has gone.

As I say, this is pure speculation on my part and it runs against your previous wide experience in sync questions. But with other problems now showing with aspects of VS 2022, we might need to be thinking this sync problem could be a new problem we weren't previously aware of. Hopefully, though, you or Trevor or someone else will shoot me down!

I hear you, but I do believe it is an error in the programming. If you watched my video, the second issue I showed, I believe is, just evidence of the first problem. You can clearly see when dragging the handle of the overlay, that the position line is exactly one frame off. This would be why when I select the overlay to slip it in the same place the main frame is split is always ends up exactly one frame off. This is because the program is one frame out of sync on the overlay track. But I am actually seeing this in the audio track as well. I work with a lot

The explanation you gave of the program dropping a frame because it identified it as not being necessary, to me does not sound like the case, because if it were, then the effect would be random. But the effect is constant, not random, so I don't think that is the case. Additionally, if it were the case, I would be finding me a programmer to slap. LOL! My cuts are precise. I sometimes have to cut between two words in a sentence, because I work without a script and struggle with stuttering when I talk. I work almost always fully zoomed in on the audio track. This is why the addition of the audio wave on the video track by default is such a huge benefit to me.

You say you don't work with overlays. Man, I work with tons of overlays. I may have three video tracks, two title tracks, and three audio tracks going all same time.

[Ken Berry]

AS I said, hopefully someone else -- including Trevor -- will jump in. I realize my suggestion is rather "out there"... but that's all I could think of to explain a one frame difference. Do you ever cut carefully on the actual beginning or end of a frame and still get the one second out of sync?

By the way, I didn't say I don't work with overlays. I work with them virtually every video I make. But what I usually carefully avoid are situations which require careful voice sync.

[jungleexplorer]

AS I said, hopefully someone else -- including Trevor -- will jump in. I realize my suggestion is rather "out there"... but that's all I could think of to explain a one frame difference. Do you ever cut carefully on the actual beginning or end of a frame and still get the one second out of sync?

By the way, I didn't say I don't work with overlays. I work with them virtually every video I make. But what I usually carefully avoid are situations which require careful voice sync.

I understood you Ken. I was just thinking out loud, buddy. I appreciate the effort you make on here. I was pretty certain this was a glitch in VS before I even posted and was not expecting a solution. My thinking was to get the ball rolling on getting the word out to the DEVs about it if I could confirm that it is a glitch on here.

I can always downgrade to 2021 if I wanted to, but I have already become addicted to the audio wave on the video track. This is a real game-changer for me.

[lata]

This morning I moved on to VS 2022 reg scanner showed 726 items
I then installed 2022, no Bonus Features reg scanner showed items.

There have been some changes to VS 2022, Corel introduced a Timeline Preview Scrubber in addition to the cursor / playback indicator.
This shows as an orange line, I do not understand why they added this scrubber, for me it gets in the way. I believe this may be the problem where the cut is made on the new scrubber and not the cursor.
We can turn this line off from (F6) Preferences by deselecting “ Enable Timeline preview scrubbing”
Keyboard Alt + B also switches the scrubber on / off

Dragging the cursor, as far as I can remember the line has always been at the start of the frame, the first frame on the timeline having a time code 00:00:00:000, if the cursor were on the right that code would be, 00:00:00:001
Mind you dragging the end of the clip to resize may have been different??
I may be installing an earlier version, If I do I will take note of that, If it has changed I am afraid you will have to live with that.

Cutting the clips, you positioned the place marker, the original cursor, now the timeline is in Project Playback, had you made a cut “hit (S) on the keyboard” the cut would have been applied to both tracks in the same place. However you clicked the top track switching to Clip mode, made one cut then selected he overlay track for a second cut, I tested that and my first effort was accurate, but then found the one frame discrepancy. Removing the Scrubber Alt+ B improved things

Post Updated
I installed VS 2018
The cursor sits to the left of the frame.
When trimming the clip by dragging the trim bar left, the program does not update on the fly, on releasing the mouse the cursor repositions again to the left edge of the last frame.
Maybe 2018 is a little old, even so it does not show on the right of the frame.

[jungleexplorer]

Cutting the clips, you positioned the place marker, the original cursor, now the timeline is in Project Playback, had you made a cut “hit (S) on the keyboard” the cut would have been applied to both tracks in the same place.

Brother, I could hug you. All these years using VS and I never knew about this "S" Keyboard shortcut. "Thanks", is too weak of a word to express my gratitude. This shortcut is gonna help me tremendously.