Low Quality DVD

[lata]

Good to know things have improved

If you have a Google account you should have access to Google Drive, uploading a small file, not sure what size limit.

Watch your Private Messages, i will send you a link from my One Drive, hopefully you will be able to upload there.
I can then test using a different settings.

[ska aks]

Hi, it's me again.

I want to try all over with different video, the first tennis DVD is burned! Thanks to you! Very much appreciated. But now, (maybe this is a new thread) I go to edit then add a video. Drag the video into the video track, then I want to trim out everything but my son's highlights, so I do "Show Library and Options Panel" Then select the "Multi-Trim Video." The screen pops up for a few seconds but then the whole program crashes, it just disappears and I am left staring at my Desktop. The only reason that I am posting here is because I was wondering, maybe, does it have to do with not updating the software? It didn't crash when I had edited the same video before.

Here are the video properties: (of one of the videos, it seems to do it with any I select)

FILE
File name: F:\BUFFALO_みまもり合図\video\2022\10 09 Tsushima Tournament Ko Ansel Champs\00096.MTS
File Format: NTSC HDMV
File size: 121m938 KB (119MB)
Duration: 147.147 seconds

VIDEO
Video Type: H264 Wideo, Upper Field First
Total frames: 4,410 frame(s)
Attributes: 24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 16:9
Frame rate: 29.970 frames / sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max 12000kbps)

AUDIO
Audio type: Dolby Digital Audio
Total samples: 7,063,063 Samples
Attributes: 48000 Hz
Layer: None
Bit rate: 256 kbps

[ska aks]

Thank you for the link to your one-drive. What kind of video would you like me to send you? One straight from my external hard drive? or one that's in CVS?

[ska aks]

I uploaded one of the videos from last night. I picked this one because it starts with a picture, and the picture was taken with a fairly decent camera, but . . .

[ska aks]

The piano file is old, what I used to get when I used the same camera with Corel Video Studio X4. I was hoping to have things of the same quality.

[lata]

Thanks for the samples
Your original posts showed the properties of your videos as being Frame Based aka Progressive
Had they been interlaced then the properties would show as 24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First. Causing a bit of confusion, your samples helpful in clearing that issue.

OK
Some problems with your 00027 samples.
That video clip when placed on the timelines does activate the Show Messages which allows us to set the properties correctly, (MPEG Transport-Stream Files 24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps Upper Field First) being used
When I navigate through the timelines we can see each frame advancing, easy to notice with the faster motion playing tennis, however there appears to be duplicate frames, 4 frames seem to advance with the 4th frame static as though a duplicate. This will cause some reduction in quality.
It could of course be Video Studio.
However testing the 00218 sample shows no indication of duplicate frames
The two samples properties do appear to be identical other than their durations, which begs the question why the difference.

I then set the project properties to use MPEG2 DVD
MPEG files 24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps Upper Field First
This time sample 00027.MTS showed no signs of duplicate frames

As an attempt to tweak the quality I set my properties to Frame Based for both Project and Mpeg2 Rendering (created a new profile for that)
So all settings now use:-

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: 8000 kbps Constant
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

The quality did seem to improve a little, difficult to see that change.
However the dreaded duplicate frames appeared again.
Deselecting Smart Render seems to have cured that.
Using the video rendered to the above should burn to disc DVD without further rendering
The quality on disc should be the same as the video quality.

Your Canon camera, does it support HD at 1920 x 1080
if yes ...for future work you may be best using that option.

[Ken Berry]

Ska aks -- I have been following this posts, but now that you have provided those sample files, both Trevor and I can work on them, Here are my findings.

I downloaded those three clips from Trevor's Dropbox account. The piano clip is very good quality, and you could easily see why you want everything to look like that (even given the 1440 x 1080 format). Clip 27 is also pretty good, though with the different lighting from the piano, it could do with some increase in the contrast.

I don't have VS 2018 on this computer, and would have to search through at least a couple of external discs to find installation files. So I have used VS 2022 (without SP2 of course).

I never got the repeated frames Trevor mentioned, in any circumstance or any clip.

Yes, the Kyoto mpeg2 DVD clip of the tennis match is not good quality -- I have a 4K 32" monitor so can look at it large screen. But I wouldn't say it was worse than I expected (though I was amused by your reference to Japanese porn quality). And I think this is where the problem lies. You are obviously filming with decent quality HD cameras, and though the bitrate you use is rather low by HD standards, it is still, both in terms of format and bitrate, better than you are ever going to get when down-converted to DVD quality. And it is always going to be the bitrate which is a major factor in determining quality: the higher the bitrate, then normally the higher the quality. Conversely, as the bitrate decreases, the quality is always going to go down. And it is always going to remain a major factor regardless of how good your cameras are or how good your filming technique might be.

I used the 027 clip two ways. First, I put it in the timeline as it was (MTS) and went to Share > DVD using 8000 kbps, UFF etc. Got Convert Title as expected, and then the DVD procedure went on from there once the mts had been converted to mpeg-2. I didn't burn an actual disc, but an ISO disc image which provides exactly what is burnt to a DVD and in exactly the same quality. I could play this ISO in VLC player, and while I was hoping for better, I was not unduly surprised to find the VOB file of the same quality as on the Kyoto file. (The ISO contains the Video_TS folder you find on a DVD, which contains the video in .vob format which in fact is mpeg-2; plus information IFO files and BUP backup files.)

I also inserted 027 in the timeline and went to Share > MPEG-2, to produce a DVD-compatible file (8000 kbps, UFF). It seemed to be a bit better than the first attempt when I played 027 in VLC. However, when I then used that new mpeg-2 in Share > DVD (with no Convert Title appearing), the end result in the resulting ISO was almost identical with Kyoto.

FWIW I also first converted 027 from MTS to m2t using Same As Project Properties, then down converted that to DVD-compatible mpeg-2, but when producing another ISO, got almost identical quality to Kyoto.

So from my own point of view, it seems to me you are simply expecting too much from a down-conversion from HD to DVD quality. The quality of the latter is never going to be as good as HD video. Perhaps if in your original filming you used 1920 x 1080 as Trevor has suggested, and a good deal higher bitrate, then when later down-converting to DVD mpeg-2 you would probably get a better quality mpeg-2. But it is never going to be anywhere near as good quality as your HD original video.

[ska aks]

Thank you very much for your input and concern about my problem. I am just a dad trying to preserve the precious moments of my kids and show them to my parents who unfortunately live a very long ways away. I didn't really expect the quality to be as good when I converted to DVD, and by the way, I did not send the videos that were almost completely mosaic, they were much, much worse quality, but a few posts back, thanks to Trevor's advice, that problem was fixed, and I sent the output from that video after Trevor's help (Kyoto). I really appreciate your advice, and if the program will allow, today I will try again, yesterday my only cliff to climb was the crashing when I went to multi-trim, Favoring my mental health, I stopped after a while. Thinking today instead of doing multi-trim right away, if I take that clip and go to share and convert it, Ken, you say to mpeg-2? - Trevor had said earlier to check the "same as project setting" I have time, I will try both - but from there, take that clip back to edit and try the multi-trim again and put on the scores. The technical stuff, I will try to figure out as I am going through the videos on CVS, I'm sure this is just a completely novice thing to say, but, when I complained about the quality going down, I keep thinking that this is all digital, like a CD, where the quality would be the same, no matter how many times it is re-recorded, not like an analog tape, anyways, not understanding the technical side (I feel like I need to study up on this more now if I'm going to complain) this was just my original reaction. Again, thank you so much.

[ska aks]

Just an update to the crashing problem: If I upload the video and without doing anything, CVS will crash when I go into multi-trim, but If I immediately take it to "share" and "Mpeg-2" then after that use that to do the multi-trim, CVS will not crash. (it also crashes if I do "same as project settings")

So in the long run, this will probably cut down on the video quality, right?

Also, Trevor, I will try to see about the settings of the video camera from now on. That will be another task for another day. Thank you.

[Ken Berry]

...CVS will crash when I go into multi-trim, but If I immediately take it to "share" and "Mpeg-2" then after that use that to do the multi-trim, CVS will not crash. (it also crashes if I do "same as project settings")

So in the long run, this will probably cut down on the video quality, right?

I can't think why Same As Project Settings make it crash, though it could be linked to leaving Smart Render or Harware Encode Acceleration boxes ticked (or unticked) -- you would need to experiment to see if unticking both boxes or just one or the other affects the crashing.

As for multi-trim reducing video quality, again I cannot see why or how. It is not a process aimed at producing a new format of video, but merely cutting an existing piece of video -- whether it be MTS or mpeg-2 -- into smaller pieces but having the same properties as the original. So the smaller pieces should all theoretically have the same quality as the original. In other words, if you could go directly into multi-tri, without a crash, then multi-trim would produce a number of new mts clips with the same properties and quality as the original. If you later down-converted all these smaller clips into mpeg-2, then yes, the quality would be reduced, but that is a product of the down-conversion rather than of multi-trim. Similarly, if you first down-convert your mts to mpeg-2, the quality will be reduced at that point, not at the point where you apply multi-trim to the new mpeg-2.

[ska aks]

Hi Ken,
Thanks again. I didn't mean multi-trim, but converting it to an Mpeg-2 would lower the quality.

Also, I forgot to uncheck the smart render, maybe the same as project would have worked had I unchecked it.

All in all, this is a very complicated process. I thank you for your help and aplologize for my ignorance when it comes to the techinical stuff, I am trying, but at the same time, this is not what I bargained for when I bought this software.

[lata]

Ska aks
Its good that you are seeing an improvement in the dvd quality.
Its is not a complicated process although reading the replies here are a little confusing.
This is a summery of the work flow you can follow

1 / Start a new project
2 / import your original video 1440 x 1080 to the timeline
3 / you should see a message to match the properties, say “YES” to this message
4 / Edit your project
If having trouble with Multi Trim, try trimming on the timelines using the Scissors.

5 / Share – Mpeg2 _ this will create a MPEG2 DVD video suitable to burn a disc
6 / Do the above for other recordings.
To Burn the DVD
7 / Start a new project
8 / Share – Disc – DVD
9 / Add your Mpeg2 videos here – top left for Add Media – Add Video files
10 / if you need - create the menu
11/ Choose Create Disc Image
12 / Burn - the process should start with Convert Menu

We can play the disc image using VLC Media Player to check quality before burning the disc using
Video Studio Tools – Burn from Disc Image.

[Ken Berry]

One thing I should have asked is why you are bothering to produce a DVD at all. Oh, I can understand the usual argument that you want to distribute your video among family and friends and they all have DVD players. But unless you are wanting to include a menu, there are other ways of distributing your video and keeping the HD aspect of your original video.

First of all, just about all modern flat screen TVs these days will play video contained in a USB stick drive or external hard drive. Those TVs will have on their side or back a plug or two which will accept the USB drive. Moreover, the cost of the smaller USB drives has fallen dramatically in recent years. Depending on how many friends and family you are distributing to, buying a number of, say, 8 GB USB drives should not cost too much. Then you simply copy the video on each stick drive and distribute them.

Some of your friends and family at least will also either have, or could easily connect to programs like Dropbox which can accept relatively large videos even in their free form. So you could load your video into such an account yourself, then advise your friends and family of the Dropbox or equivalent address. You might even want to look into Microsoft One Drive for something similar.

But if DVDs remain your preference, then if you don't need a menu, you can simply copy your video onto a DVD like you would copy a file to a USB stick drive. This is not the same as burning a video DVD. It is using the DVD as storage. So you have a blank DVD in your DVD drive -- say it's D:\ -- then you simply navigate to where your video is stored on your PC -- say your C:\Videos\ and right click the video. Then choose Copy from the dropdown menu. Then navigate to D:\ and right click in the window and select Paste. This will copy the video to the DVD as a storage device. Then you should find you or your friends and family who receive such DVDs, can play the DVD on their computer DVD drive in its original HD format. You might even find they can do the same thing with an external DVD player connected to their TV.

These are suggested as ideas you might want to think about to get around the poorer quality you get when you down-convert HD video to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 with a considerably lower bitrate.

[ska aks]

Hi Ken,

My vacation is over, sorry it's taken so long to get back. You have point, and I was thinking about that as well, I must just really be behind the times. For the last fifteen years or so it was more of a tradition to send DVDs, but I'm sure that the granparents' TVs are all pretty up to date, probably have a USB slot. I think this is a really good option, this is the way I am going to go from here on out.

It's Saturday morning here, I have all day to edit stuff and I just put a bunch of video from my camera into the edit box. And when I go to Multi-Trim it is crashing again. It just shuts down. It wasn't doing this before. I once reinstalled the software and I haven't opted for the update that pops up every time I open the program. If I update (since I'm not going to do DVDs) do you think that will have any effect?

[Ken Berry]

An alternative to multi=trim is to use the scissors under the preview screen to make individual cuts; then delete the parts you don't want. It may take longer, but if there are no crashes, you save time overall.

As for the SP2 for VS 2022, do NOT under any circumstances install it until we can tell you its OK. It is not just DVDs that it can affect, but all video activity since ii involves repeating frames, and this makes everything jerky. In an active game like tennis, it would look particularly jerky. And in any case, there is no need to update in any case since you can easily edit your HD video and transfer it onto USB stick drives. You certainly don't need to update VS 2022 to do that.