hardware acceleration actually slower? why?

[1jhill]

So, I've always noticed videostudio really slow to render and can't playback 4k while editing which means I always have to wait for a proxy which also takes a very long time. I just got the new pinnacle studio 26 and its insane that the two software's from the same company can run so completely different. this made me curious so I disabled the encode and decode in performance and now all a sudden I can play and edit 4k. Also, it now renders faster but still not as fast as pinnacle. I liked the layout of this software as its easier for me a nonprofessional but think I'll just have to force myself to adapt to pinnacle because it is so much faster. videostudio I eventually stopped editing because id have to wait overnight just to make the proxies and then I'd have to go to work for the week so no time to edit and then the following weekend I'd go do an activity and have even more footage and it just kind of snowballs from there. This makes me question is the Nvidia cuda acceleration bugged? I mean it must be because it is insanely slow playback and render with it enabled and also watching resource monitor if it is enabled then the software does not take full advantage of the cpu and just leaved cores idle whereas pinnacle uses the cpu and gpu together and cranks out 4k renders with ease. So, it's good to finally get some speed out of this software by disabling it so that I can use some of the 3rd party features not in pinnacle but it still doesn't seem like it is operating correctly.

just in case system specs don't show

AMD 3800x
32gb ram
3 ssd (system, games, video files)
Nvidia RTX 2060s

[tletter]

So, I've always noticed videostudio really slow to render

Using VS2021, I render with "enable hardware encode acceleration" set to NVIDIA CUDA. Rendering is noticeably faster than VS2018.

This makes me question is the Nvidia cuda acceleration bugged?

It works fine in VS2021 as mentioned above.

can't playback 4k while editing which means I always have to wait for a proxy which also takes a very long time.

With 4K, the use of Smart Proxy files is very useful when editing 4K, but fortunately it doesn't take long too create them with current CPUs.

the software does not take full advantage of the cpu

Unfortunately, it has been that way for years which is why the use the GPU acceleration is so helpful.

You may have to either reinstall or reset the program to see if the issues resolve.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

[1jhill]

Have you tried playing 4k with hardware acceleration disabled? I was shocked to find out it can play without needing a proxy. Also try rendering something with it disabled and see if it then uses all cpu cores which is what I discovered. My system is a fairly recent install so doubtful uninstall and reinstall will do anything. After using pinnacle again today it’s crystal clear video studio is majorly bugged and not utilizing all system hardware, if using the nvidia cuda it only uses one cpu core and renders extremely slow using about 1/2-3/4 gpu resource, with cuda disabled all a sudden gets full cpu utilization and works faster yet it’s still a far cry from pinnacle which uses full cpu and gpu as it should and is much more enjoyable to work with.

[tletter]

I was shocked to find out it can play without needing a proxy.

W/O proxies, VS has severe stuttering which makes editing 4K difficult.

if using the nvidia cuda it only uses one cpu core and renders extremely slow using about 1/2-3/4 gpu resource

Haven't seen that behaviour WRT CPU cores, but VS doesn't fully engage the GPU as you point out.

VS does engage all the available CPU cores but doesn't peg them. Oddly, VS2021 utilizes the NVIDIA GPU to the same extent whether or not "Enable Hardware encode acceleration" is selected.

After using pinnacle again today it’s crystal clear video studio is majorly bugged and not utilizing all system hardware ... and is much more enjoyable to work with.

Don't agree that VS is "majorly bugged", but if you're having a better experience with Pinnacle then that's good.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

[1jhill]

Interesting I’ll get some screenshots of what mine does with and without. As for your first statement on the stuttering does it still stutter with hardware decode turned off? If mine is enabled then yes I get solid audio but stuttering video without a proxy as soon as I uncheck hardware decode then I can play 4k without a proxy, so somehow they’ve screwed up the use of the decoder.

[Davidk]

Hardware acceleration comes from the program using the cpu that's in every video adapter as a 'helper', a secondary processor - and the video/display driver is invoked to do this. The extra work in doing this(transfer data, specify desired result, wait, accept result etc) may actually slow the end result down in some cases. On my previous system I discovered a bug in the video adapter driver which Intel would not fix (a hardware platform issue, rather than the editor software - it affected both video editors I had installed) so I had acceleration always turned off.

The video stuttering effect as the format/screen resolution increases comes from the fact that the amount of work the cpu has to do when processing each frame during play increases exponentially as the resolution increases. See attached slide. Basically, too much work to do and the cpu falls behind, so the image temporaily freezes, then catches up, etc: stutters.

Improving performance on these FHD/UHD files can be effected by a faster cpu, more RAM and occasionally acceleration (altho the latter doesn't work well in many systems). And sometimes what worked well in a prior version of CVS doesn't when a the next release comes out, and that's just a function of extra work the newer version is doing (generally to manage new features).
But there does come a time when a proxy file is essential for edits to proceed smoothly, so it's important to set the proxy file on and define a resolution threshold when configuring preferences\performance tab. Usually that's at the DVD/mpeg-2 spec (720x576) but if you are confident your system is good enough that it can handle higher resolutions without proxy files (and thus saving the storage those files use) then set the proxy file threshold higher (eg, 1280x720, or 1920x1080 - which is the FHD spec) - choose from the options in the drop-down list. You will find out empirically where the threshold is - if you are using FHD/mp4 files, and it stutters during edit/play, then you need to set the proxy threshold lower than the FHD spec.

[1jhill]

Right but using it as a helper should make it fast right? Yet if I have the hardware decoder set and set to use cuda with my RTX 2060s it has jumpy video on anything above 1080p and that’s just raw footage no added edits or anything to process. Disable hardware decoder and it’s completely smooth and in line with audio. This is with an nvidia GPU so most popular company on the market you’d think they could have that one figured out. Then for encoding if I have hardware disabled all my cpu cores are doing work and cpu is somewhere like 60-80% used, if hardware encoding is enables the cpu sits at low 10-15% utilized and then the GPU gets about 60+ % utilized. It’s as if your trading one fo r the other and not using the other as just a helper. With pinnacle the whole system hardware gets used and rips through an edit in less than half the time of video studio.

[tletter]

Hardware acceleration comes from the program using the cpu that's in every video adapter as a 'helper', a secondary processor - and the video/display driver is invoked to do this.

Most accept that hardware acceleration is the use of computer hardware designed to perform specific functions more efficiently when compared to software running on a general-purpose central processing unit (CPU). In the case of VS, the program attempts to use the specialized processor in the graphics card, i.e. the graphics processing unit (GPU). As previously explained, VS does not fully utilizing the processing capability of the GPU. Perhaps this is due to the problem integrating the many 3rd party filters that VS incorporates, e.g. proDAD and NewBlue.

With pinnacle the whole system hardware gets used and rips through an edit in less than half the time of video studio.

The bottom line is that VS is not particularly fast at rendering, although it is generally good at editing videos before rendering. Is Pinnacle as easy to use during editing as VS is?

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

[1jhill]

ok so ran video studio without hardware encode in first two pics and you can see cpu used and GPU just at 1%. next encode is enabled and now cpu just does hardly anything and gpu goes between 50 and 90%. next is same exact video same exact export etc and using pinnacle and you can see the cpu is more used and consistent as well as GPU (no spikes).

[1jhill]

pinnacle

[1jhill]

oh and I have to apologize I was mistaken I cannot play back 4k with acceleration disabled I forget that video was 2k, however I could playback 2k and with acceleration enabled 2k became choppy.

ok and here is a really weird one and maybe the issue? with acceleration enabled and doing a proxy in the more detailed view the GPU encoder is doing nothing and 3d is being used. Its extremely slow to make a proxy just as it is to render a video and much faster with just CPU. Seems the NVENC is not getting used?

[Davidk]

When a proxy file has been created, any editing uses that file, and there won't be any observable usage of the gpu. It's only when rendering that edits applied to the proxy file are applied to the original clip. And it's at this point - rendering - that the gpu use should be golden - lots of usage.

[1jhill]

Right but what about when creating a proxy? Shouldn’t that be using the encoder to render a lower resolution? The screen shot was during the creation of the proxy and once again the progress bar moves quicker with hardware encoding off, makes no sense.

[tletter]

Right but what about when creating a proxy? Shouldn’t that be using the encoder to render a lower resolution? The screen shot was during the creation of the proxy and once again the progress bar moves quicker with hardware encoding off, makes no sense.

With the 'hardware decoder acceleration' option selected, the proxy creation time is increased by approximately 75%. With this option selected, the GPU's Video Decode is used and the CPU is mostly idle which significantly slows down proxy creation. With the 'hardware decoder acceleration' deselected, proxy file creation is an all-CPU activity with the GPU idling (see image below) and the creation is much faster.

Corel/Alludo states the following:

• Enable Hardware Decoder acceleration — enhances editing performance and improves clip and project playback by using video graphics acceleration technologies of the computer’s available hardware
• Enable Hardware Encoder acceleration — improves the rendering time required for producing your movies

Bottomline: Beware of the effect of selecting the 'hardware decoder acceleration' option.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

[1jhill]

Exactly what I’ve found. And with the encoder selected or not selected makes no difference so what is actually happening here does not make sense. So is it even using the decoder for playback as it should as described and why is it using the decoder to make a proxy? Decode should be for playback, encode for rendering yet it is not behaving like that at all. Extremely poorly written and poorly implemented, here check this box to use your system’s advanced features and make everything worse. Sounds great.