Very slow loading

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sunnyrio
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by sunnyrio »

migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pm How long does it take for Photoshop to load on your system? In my tests (reported in other topics) Ps takes longer than PSP to load.
30 seconds, unacceptable on a brand new high spec machine.
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmAs Levi said, slow loading times have been reported by many ppl, but it's not the same for everyone. Try for example with muted internet and muted antivirus. As an example, in my tests Kasperksy affects loading times of almost all my image editors much more than Avira did (which I have recently replaced with Kasperksy for other reasons).
If PSP is messing around phoning home on the internet, or doing things that cause AV programs to slow it down, that's PSP's fault. Doesn't happen with any other program.
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmPS. Btw, it's not exactly wise to compare launching times between versions that have like 30 years difference.
Of course it is. Corel took a perfectly good program and bloated it. I'm now happily using the JASC version.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by migf1 »

sunnyrio wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:09 pm
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pm How long does it take for Photoshop to load on your system? In my tests (reported in other topics) Ps takes longer than PSP to load.
30 seconds, unacceptable on a brand new high spec machine.
So both Photoshop and PaintShop Pro need 30 secs to launch on your system. I asked particularly about Photoshop because it 's considered the industry standard in the field. I'm not saying that Corel doesn't need to improve their code (I wouldn't hold my breath) but PSP's launching time isn't that bad after all.
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmAs Levi said, slow loading times have been reported by many ppl, but it's not the same for everyone. Try for example with muted internet and muted antivirus. As an example, in my tests Kasperksy affects loading times of almost all my image editors much more than Avira did (which I have recently replaced with Kasperksy for other reasons).
If PSP is messing around phoning home on the internet, or doing things that cause AV programs to slow it down, that's PSP's fault. Doesn't happen with any other program.
Yeap, I agree it's PSP to blame for that, but I'm confused cause on one hand you say that no other program takes that long to launch on your system, but on the other hand you said Photoshop also takes 30 secs to launch on your system. All in all, which programs you compare PaintShop Pro with, when it comes to launching times? To be fair, I would compare it with programs in the same genre. As a matter of fact, I have done that on my rig and although PSP is on the heavy side, it is not the slowest either (Photoshop is the slowest in my case). Configuring it to my needs (which aren't the same for everyone) improves things even more. For example, blocking its Internet access, putting it on Kapserky's exceptions list and turning off things I don't use like the Organizer palette and the Manage tab.
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmPS. Btw, it's not exactly wise to compare launching times between versions that have like 30 years difference.
Of course it is. Corel took a perfectly good program and bloated it. I'm now happily using the JASC version.
I meant that in 20 years time so many new stuff get added to any program, in order to stay relevant. That comes with a price of course, but it's only logical. If Jasc version is all you need, then by all means stick with it, no question about it.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by JoeB »

@migf1, I had also noted that the OP kept saying that PSP was his slowest opening program and then comes along and says that Photoshop takes even longer! I also noted that he kept skirting around the oft stated fact that, for many people, PSP opens much faster than it does for him which is, by definition, evidence that opening times are system specific. I've been following the thread just because the more the OP argued the more he sounded like someone who had such a strong prejudice in favor of his original gripe that nothing was going to persuade him otherwise anyway. But as you said, if Jasc's v.9 is all he needs then just stick with it.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by sunnyrio »

migf1 wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:19 amSo both Photoshop and PaintShop Pro need 30 secs to launch on your system. I asked particularly about Photoshop because it 's considered the industry standard in the field. I'm not saying that Corel doesn't need to improve their code (I wouldn't hold my breath) but PSP's launching time isn't that bad after all.
No, I misread your post, I thought you'd asked how long it takes for PSP to start. 30 seconds is how long PSP takes. Nothing else is remotely that long.
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmConfiguring it to my needs (which aren't the same for everyone) improves things even more. For example, blocking its Internet access, putting it on Kapserky's exceptions list and turning off things I don't use like the Organizer palette and the Manage tab.
If a program is phoning home, then I don't want to use it for two obvious reasons - slowness and privacy. And no I won't bother messing around with firewalls. Easier to delete the offending "virus".
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmI meant that in 20 years time so many new stuff get added to any program, in order to stay relevant. That comes with a price of course, but it's only logical. If Jasc version is all you need, then by all means stick with it, no question about it.
And in 20 years time computers are 1000 times faster. Making your program bloated quicker than the CPUs have increased in speed is insane.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by LeviFiction »

CPU speed is not the only determinate of how fast a program loads. It is Corel's problem to fix, but it's still something they are doing that isn't working properly with your setup. When Corel matches or exceeds the load speed of other similar software on other computers it's not just a matter of being bloated, which it is as they keep adding on other engines and systems to create their new effects while never going back and improving old ones. PSP is without a doubt, bloated. But Corel is going to need to both make their own version of the setup to test on as well as get people with this problem to help them test and locate the issue. I mean if they duplicate your setup and don't experience the delay you do then what?
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by migf1 »

sunnyrio wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:10 pm [snip]
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmI meant that in 20 years time so many new stuff get added to any program, in order to stay relevant. That comes with a price of course, but it's only logical. If Jasc version is all you need, then by all means stick with it, no question about it.
And in 20 years time computers are 1000 times faster. Making your program bloated quicker than the CPUs have increased in speed is insane.
Yet, in one of your initial posts you compare the loading times of the 20+ years old Jasc version running on the same computer you run the latest Corel version.

Seems like JoeB is right that you "have a strong prejudice in favor of your original gripe". Also, you still haven't said how long it takes for other programs in PSP's genre to launch on your system.

That's not to say that Corel doesn't need to improve PSP's launching time, but we can only up those chances if we keep our criticism constructive and helpful.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by sunnyrio »

LeviFiction wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:11 pm CPU speed is not the only determinate of how fast a program loads. It is Corel's problem to fix, but it's still something they are doing that isn't working properly with your setup. When Corel matches or exceeds the load speed of other similar software on other computers it's not just a matter of being bloated, which it is as they keep adding on other engines and systems to create their new effects while never going back and improving old ones. PSP is without a doubt, bloated. But Corel is going to need to both make their own version of the setup to test on as well as get people with this problem to help them test and locate the issue. I mean if they duplicate your setup and don't experience the delay you do then what?
A program should be tested on multiple setups in house and not expect the users to do their work for them. Imagine you bought a car which didn't work because of the way you drove it, or a particular bend they hadn't thought of.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by sunnyrio »

migf1 wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:35 pm
sunnyrio wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:10 pm [snip]
migf1 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:22 pmI meant that in 20 years time so many new stuff get added to any program, in order to stay relevant. That comes with a price of course, but it's only logical. If Jasc version is all you need, then by all means stick with it, no question about it.
And in 20 years time computers are 1000 times faster. Making your program bloated quicker than the CPUs have increased in speed is insane.
Yet, in one of your initial posts you compare the loading times of the 20+ years old Jasc version running on the same computer you run the latest Corel version.
I never said it was the same system. I'm comparing JASC PSP 7 on what was the latest system back then, to PSP 2021 on what is the latest system now.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by Jean-Luc »

sunnyrio wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:09 pm ... unacceptable on a brand new high spec machine.
We are here users who try to help other users. This forum is not the official support.
If you want to speak to Corel and explain your problem, you need to contact them. If you don't, they will not know what happens with PSP on your system.
Of course, you are authorized to complain here about your situation, but it is not constructive. :(
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by sunnyrio »

Jean-Luc wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:52 pm
sunnyrio wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:09 pm ... unacceptable on a brand new high spec machine.
We are here users who try to help other users. This forum is not the official support.
If you want to speak to Corel and explain your problem, you need to contact them. If you don't, they will not know what happens with PSP on your system.
Of course, you are authorized to complain here about your situation, but it is not constructive. :(
If they don't read this forum, that's their problem not mine. If they don't test their program properly before releasing it, that's their problem not mine. There are countless photo editors to choose from.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by LeviFiction »

sunnyrio wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:11 pmA program should be tested on multiple setups in house and not expect the users to do their work for them. Imagine you bought a car which didn't work because of the way you drove it, or a particular bend they hadn't thought of.
I'm going to state this simply and then go on a long rant, feel free to skip.

*cough*

Not catching every possibility is not a sign of lack of testing, it's a sign that a problem didn't come up or was deemed acceptable and we don't know which.

Now the Rant:

No one is saying they shouldn't do their own testing. As stated previously, they do test. Not catching every issue is not a sign of not testing. It's a sign of missing something or making a decision to address other more important issues. We don't know which. They test both In house and on beta testers computers. Which is how it should be done, and is done all across the industry. Because computers are far more complicated than cars. Other software, drivers, settings, different versions of the OS, all factor into how a program runs. But they can't test every CPU, graphics card, harddrive, and software combination. They need to scatter shot and get the best combination they can. The most standard builds they are likely to encounter from standard users. They do internal testing, then when beta testing commences they get people to report the type of computer they have and are running the software on, which helps them further develop for those systems and take that into account. But they cannot test every scenario and possibility. That's not feasible. And cars rely on external infrastructure and rules and standards put onthem. Set notions like Physics not whether their method of handling DLL loading into a Class Template properly handles a virtual function (self-driving cars do but they tightly control the system that runs on as well). A car doesn't have to worry about a particular bend or how a user uses it because the user is restricted by the rules of the road and the manufacturers are restricted to specialized requirements for suspension tolerances. It's a tighter system. That will probably fail on a narrow mountain road or result in a flat tire on a gravel road because the majority of their users aren't using them that way and they can design for that. But the second a user stars adding in their own radio, lighting systems, changing out OEM parts for custom parts that are 'faster and better" the car isn't designed to account for that. And people have died from shoddy workmanship.

Also car manufacturers constantly make decisions on what's more expensive, lawsuits or fixing a problem and will sometimes choose the lawsuit so it's not an apt analogy.

Corel tested, they tested for over a year, and yes something slipped through that they need to test and work on further. But, get this, they need you to report it. Not just whine about it to other users. And, again, if they rebuilt your system from the ground up and still didn't experience the issue you're experiencing where do they go then? What solution can they offer if they can't duplicate the issue? Users offer a greater expanse of testing because they do things the developers don't anticipate it's why beta testing is so important, it's why you go outside the lab. This is normal. Open source software, has giant communities offering patches and solutions to problems like "it doesn't work quickly on my machine" and produce good support tickets that can be acted upon. Larger companies with greater budgets can do the same and work specifically with certain users and types of users. However, not all problems get solved, sometimes they will just say "don't use it on that system" or "we can't support that." That also happens.

The fact that PSP 2021 loads "slowly" (seriously, 30 seconds) compared to others on your system is something I truly believe they should look into. It's interesting and might do the software good to find out why. Is it a 3rd-party add-on that's slowing things down that they have to work with another company on? Is it something they themselves are doing? Who knows? We don't, we're users. Ask Corel. If you're not interested in using the program then move on.
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by sunnyrio »

LeviFiction wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:20 pmThe fact that PSP 2021 loads "slowly" (seriously, 30 seconds) compared to others on your system is something I truly believe they should look into. It's interesting and might do the software good to find out why. Is it a 3rd-party add-on that's slowing things down that they have to work with another company on? Is it something they themselves are doing? Who knows? We don't, we're users. Ask Corel. If you're not interested in using the program then move on.
I have moved on, back to the good old JASC version, before Corel screwed it over. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever known anyone to use a Corel piece of software for long. I assume they're only in business because people don't or can't take the useless software back for a refund.

And you got that right, we're users. I'm a user. I expect to pay for something then use it, not work with the guy I paid to make it usable!
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Re: Very slow loading

Post by Kathy_9 »

A lively discussion that seems to have run it's course.
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