Smart Render with WMV

[cybernick]

Does anybody know if smartrender works in WMV videos?
Let me explain my case. I have several (kind of complicated) VSP files and I have rendered those in WMV 1080p videos.
I need to created a new project using some parts of those files. Instead of importing VSP's to time lime, which considering the instability issues of VS is very risky, I consider to put WMV's in the timeline.
Depside during render I choose the "the same as the first file in timeline" and I have selected smart render, VS renders the files completely and not only the transitions. This caused a slight decrease in the quality of the video. It is very slight but still I want to avoid this.

Any comments?

[lata]

When we add a video file we should see the message asking “Do you want to change the project settings to match the video’s properties so Video Studio can perform Smart Render”

Smart Render works best when our “project properties” match the “video properties” and when the share choice also matches those settings.

However we cannot set project properties to use WMV settings, so that message never shows, as such I would think Smart Render has little effect when working with those types.

You do not say what your Project Settings are?

[cybernick]

The project setting are
MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Frame-based
H.264 Main Profile Video: 8000 Kbps, 16:9
44100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 128 Kbps

But putting the WMV files does not cause that message as you have mentioned.
Mp4 quality in 1080p 25p is way lower compared to WMV's in VS. Therefore mp4 files are out of question. I hope VS increased the quality in mp4 renders.

[lata]

When you say Mpeg4 renders are lower quality, are you rendering like for like, that is Mpeg4 to Mpeg4 using same as options and of course the Project Settings matching
Or are you effectively converting from another format to Mpeg4 and WMV as a comparison.
If my memory serves me, I think we have been here before using video with a variable frame rate. I may be mistaken

Can I assume that your final output is to remain as WMV

In the past I have worked with MTS video but of late using more Mpeg4 recordings and I do not have a problem with quality
Rendering MTS to Mpeg4 is also as good as originals, so for my part rendering to Mpeg4 is good quality

[cybernick]

My source files are MTS 1080 25p variable (from sony a6000, nex5 or handycam cx550) and I have separate audio file. I combine those to WMV and cut those since audio in mp4 sometimes has some glitches. Also I guaranty you the 1080p WMV from MTS is way better quality to my eyes compared to mp4 files.
I would suggest to convert the same MTS to WMV and MP4 and compare side by site. Try to look and darker spots. You will see more grains in mp4.

[asik1]

I also prefer WMV over mp4 but not always.
I don't now if smart render has any affect over renderd video but only on FX's and trans.
What profile you used to render your wmv's?

[lata]

Ok, I ran tests using MTS 50i UFF 1902 x 1080
Smart Render enabled by default
No Smart Proxy
No Acceleration as I am AMD
1 / rendered the 50i to mpeg4 – time taken 1 min 15 sec
I had to modify the default template to use interlacing, playback quality was a little poor

2 / rendered MTS 50i to Mpeg4 at 25P , playback quality was good as original

3 / Rendered to WMV – more demanding - time taken 3 min 22 sec., playback was as good as 2 above
WMV only supports progressive so the mts 50i was converted to 25P
File size for Mpeg4 100 Mb
For WMV was 180Mb
I did not see any improvement for the time taken or the increase in MB used, my preference would be Mpeg4

By the way all playback was using my media player, not using Video Studio

I will double check my findings using another MTS sample

Then, I would not use WMV, not sure if my TV can play that format

[Ken Berry]

I see cybernick's project settings include a bitrate of only 8000 kbps. Surely that is rather low for HD video (1920 x 1080)? I would have thought that that alone would result in lower quality mp4. I would have also thought that the original video would have a much higher bitrate.

[cybernick]

I see cybernick's project settings include a bitrate of only 8000 kbps. Surely that is rather low for HD video (1920 x 1080)? I would have thought that that alone would result in lower quality mp4. I would have also thought that the original video would have a much higher bitrate.

Does it effect anything as long as I choose something better during render?
There is nothing more suitable in the project presets for 1080 25p of VS. Can you please suggest me any profile suitable to my case?

Coming to Iata's comments.
My source files are 1920x1080 25 p h264, Upper Field First, 24 bits, variable rate max 16000kbps.
I made the following tests.

Test 1 :
I places the MTS file (in the above details) to the time line. I accepted to change the project properties to according to the file.
In the SHARE I select "as the first file" and the smartrender was enabled.
The results was as good as the original MTS file.

Test 2:
I places the MTS file (in the above details) to the time line. I accepted to change the project properties to according to the file.
In the SHARE I select "as the first file" and the smartrender was disabled.
The result was way worse then the original MTS.


I have done the tests with classic player coming with k-lite.

Check the attached picture.
It is a screenshot of classic player from top to down:
Original file
Test 1
Test 2


As you can see for example lots of details in the head pillow on the chair is missing in test 2 render.

[lata]

sorry, i misunderstood.
I tested rendering MTS to Mpeg4 and WMV

Now you show rendering from MTS to MTS comparing the Same as Project to Same as Clip options, with and without Smart Render

Your project properties as Ken mentioned used 8000kbps, now they use 16000kbps (same as video)

If we are going to compare then we need to use the same settings.

By the way my MTS uses 16800kbps, recorded using Panasonic 900 series camcorder

Provide us with a sample of your original MTS video, as recorded using a camcorder, I assume the videos are from a recording and not converted to MTS from another source.

Otherwise we need the original video files.

[cybernick]

Check the bellow file. It contains both original and the rendered without smart render. Despite I make the project details the same and the render is as the first file the output has lowers bitrate. I do not know why?

https://we.tl/t-dvILOlXdNu

[Ken Berry]

Does it effect anything as long as I choose something better during render?
There is nothing more suitable in the project presets for 1080 25p of VS. Can you please suggest me any profile suitable to my case?

You are quite right that it doesn't matter if you choose something else. But a lot of users commonly simply choose Same As Project Settings when they render.

As for more suitable settings for the bitrate etc, I suppose you have noticed that Edit button below the box with the choice of Project Settings. If you open that, you can increase the bitrate in the Commpression tab.

[lata]

Your original video sample is not the best quality it could be, a few seconds to view the video before it goes out of focus?
In using WMV you are converting to Progressive, does your camera have a setting to record to progressive rather than interlaced, that would increase the frame rate to 50P giving better quality.

Settings
Can you change a setting in Preferences F6 – Edit tab – Resampling Quality – to Best. ( don’t ask, as I do not really know how this affects our work

OK
I would set the project properties the same as the original MTS video file and not your intended output.
I rendered to MTS:-
Same as first clip with smart render, the resultant video being as good as original.
I also rendered to Wmv, of course Smart Render will have little or no effect, video was the same quality as original.
At least with my old eyes I cannot see any difference with the footage we have.

I always play the video with my media players when comparing quality as we know Video Studio playback may not be the best option.

I have noticed on some video tests that converting from Interlaced (your original) to Progressive / frame based, that quality may have been a little improved, but really nit picking here.

Of course if you wish to burn a Bluray Disc then Interlacing will have to be used for 1920 x 1080 MTS

[cybernick]

As far as I know the original is not interlaced. It is 25p. The camera does not support 50p.

[lata]

As far as I know the original is not interlaced. It is 25p. The camera does not support 50p.

The Original sample you provided is indeed Interlaced - Upper Field First