Extreme lag when re-rendering

[gingerbread]

I'm getting intermittent extreme lag with PSP2020 and I haven't figured out why. (I've also had this problem with previous versions, and on different machines.)

Once the lag kicks in, it's only apparent when the image is re-rendering - say, I delete the contents of a layer, switch a layer on or off, alter text, paste in something from another image, even right-clicking to deselect (when the image simply re-renders without the selection box). It takes 20-30 seconds to re-render the image, block by block. By "block" I mean one-twentieth (or so) of the image re-renders at a time, in consecutive blocks. This happens with every single minor change I make to the image. The CPU usage shoots up to 60% for a few seconds while it's re-rendering, but then goes to 0-1%. Meanwhile, anything I do that doesn't involve re-rendering (like selecting tools or layers) moves at normal speed.

I have 16GB ram, 30GB hard drive free, don't run anything at the same time and no updates are downloading. I recently upgraded my display driver but it hasn't helped. PSP can be going fine and then suddenly slows down, even after rebooting. Or it's slow almost as soon as I open the program. And then sometimes it's fine for days or weeks.

The lag does suddenly vanish after a while (30-60 minutes maybe) for no apparent reason. Seems completely random.

[gingerbread]

Just wanted to add that by "rendering" I mean refreshing.

To narrow down the problem, I've tried the file in 2020 (64bit) and X8 (32bit) and refreshing lags in both (to the point of being unusable).

Then I opened a similarly sized file and it's not lagging at all. Didn't reboot the program or anything. This file is actually a previous version of the above file from yesterday, so other than minor changes it has all the same layers etc. Why would a new ("save as") version of the file lag, and seconds later the original version doesn't?

So next I re-opened the laggy file in 2020 (takes 2 minutes to load instead of 10 seconds), saved-as, rebooted the program, and opened the new (3rd) file. Nope, it's still laggy. Just switching on a raster layer takes 38 seconds to refresh.

[hartpaul]

You are lacking so many details that it is hard to provide any solution.

Then I opened a similarly sized file and it's not lagging at all.

What do you mean by size? Mb on disk or best size in pixels (it is hard to try and duplicate your problem if you mention MB as that can vary depending on the compression or file type whereas quoting a size in pixels is more descriptive)

So next I re-opened the laggy file in 2020 (takes 2 minutes to load instead of 10 seconds)

And again you mention file - but what type of file ? Jpg, TIF, pspimage . I presume the last as you also mentioned layers.
So many more details are needed
1. Are you talking about pspimages?
2. How many layers and what types - vector?, raster? , masks? adjustment?
3. Have you worked out with a fresh image just when the lag starts eg start with 2 layers and do your switching (visibility ?) off and on or whatever it takes.
4. Is it size(pixel dimensions) dependent or number of layers dependent

[gingerbread]

These are working files and as you surmised they are therefore pspimage. There are ~20 layers, mostly raster, some vector (text or shapes around which text is fitted), no masks or anything else. Some layers are blended (eg. Multiply), most are Normal blend mode. Most of the layers are switched off while I'm working, as I'm saving them down to different jpgs (book covers in a series, each one slightly different so I'm switching out titles and images on the same background) - so presumably PSP isn't even rendering those in real time.

The files are almost identical in all respects (dimensions, file size, number & type of layers), as they are previous versions of each other, as I said. They're about 65MB.

I haven't worked out when the lag starts or stops. I switched off a vector layer yesterday and the lag instantly vanished, only to return 20 minutes later. But that was as random as any other time the lag starts or stops. I'm doing thousands of clicks on these files in each session and nothing in particular causes the problem.

In the past I haven't had this problem upon opening files (it always starts at some point later, if at all) but this particular file has now become laggy from the moment I open it. Today: I opened it 5 minutes ago and it still hasn't fully "opened" so I can start work.

[gingerbread]

Latest update because this is such fun: The file taking so long to load never loaded so I had to hard-exit the program and I assume the file is now corrupt. I went back to a working file from last week (i.e. one that loads normally, a previous version). After an hour of working on that file with no problems, I double-clicked on a vector text layer (not for the first time) to change the text and the program froze. Usually this is a signal it's going to start going really slowly.

(I feel like the lag usually starts when doing something with the vector text layers - the font in this case is Libre Baskerville which isn't exotic to my knowledge.)

After nothing for 5 mins, I ESC'ed until the cursor started moving again...

So, now I can select different layers, switch them on and off with no lag... but all the tools are greyed out along with some file options including "save as". When I move the cursor over the image itself, I get the red "null" symbol.

ETA: The X to close the working window still works so I did that (and saved on the way). Then I started a new file to see what worked. All the tools came back, and I can use them as normal (no lag)... except the Text tool! I can select it, but nothing happens when I click to start typing. Changing the font doesn't help.

[migf1]

Hello gingerbread,

this may be a long shot, but if you have text attached to shapes try detaching them and see if that makes any difference (try also not to use very long texts). If that's the cause of the issuses, I don't really have any solutions other than maybe rasterizing the attached texts, or save the vector ones as stand-alone files, so you can copy & paste them into your main file, where you can then rasterize them before (re)saving the main file.

[hartpaul]

Ok I did some experimenting starting with an image that was 500 x 500 pixels and made 28 layers.
I painted on some erased on others, changed blend modes on others , included a mask and then text on another so I had a mix of raster and vector and mask layers.
That came in at 2 MB
Enlarged to 2000 pixels and that was 22 MB
Finally at 3000 pixels I finished with a size of 47 MB approximation the size mentioned bt the OP and in absence of any mention of pixel dimensions. (See why a mention of size in MB is pretty useless?)
At the size of 3000 pixels and with a paintbrush size of 400 pixels I started to get slight lagging as I drew across the screen, but none like the OP has mentioned. Switching between layers , moving layers was fast but redwaing of teh screen (refreshing) showed some lagging similar to that of the paintbrush but no lockups or long pauses.

Now I am wondering what else could slow things down and perhaps the Undo settings may be causing a problem
File > Preserences > General Program Preferences and Undo tab
I have Enable the undo system ticked,
Limit undo/redo... unticked,
Likit undo/redo ticked and set at 250 steps per open image
Enable Fast rRedo is ticked and
10 Non-undoable steps in the History Palette.
Maybe playing around with the number of undo/redo steps may make a difference.
My system is only 8 Gb of RAM - half of the OP s , so if it was a RAM memory problem I would expect lags to occure more with my setup.

[gingerbread]

Hello gingerbread,

this may be a long shot, but if you have text attached to shapes try detaching them and see if that makes any difference (try also not to use very long texts). If that's the cause of the issuses, I don't really have any solutions other than maybe rasterizing the attached texts, or save the vector ones as stand-alone files, so you can copy & paste them into your main file, where you can then rasterize them before (re)saving the main file.

When I detach the shape from the object, it reverts to a straight line. I only learned how to do this the other day so I'm probably doing it wrong... but the lag problem has been happening a lot longer than that (months, including my prior version of PSP and now X8 as well).

I'll try making everything raster and see if that helps. Thanks for the idea. It's driving me nuts because it seems to be so random - although over the past few days it's worse than ever.

[gingerbread]

Limit undo/redo... unticked,
Likit undo/redo ticked and set at 250 steps per open image
Enable Fast rRedo is ticked and
10 Non-undoable steps in the History Palette.
Maybe playing around with the number of undo/redo steps may make a difference.

Those undo settings are the factory default - mine are currently the same because I did a reset today. However, yesterday I changed Undo to 20 steps and it didn't help. Also deleted the cache, cleaned up my hard drive temp files to make more disk space... What's hard to figure out is why it's intermittent. When I have another file open at the same time, say a simple jpg, that file has no lag.

My file is 1600x2560px. The layers are really simple - just raster image or vector text with a couple of shapes to curve the text, and half of the raster layers have a blend mode.

Because it does seem to happen (at least sometimes) when I click on text, or turn text layers on or off, I'm wondering if I have a bad font. Or maybe too many fonts installed (about 400 including all the system fonts).

[gingerbread]

Update... I changed half of my vector text to raster, including the ones fitted to shapes. As soon as I deleted the first "fit to shape" layer, the refresh-lag disappeared and I've been able to work for an hour with no hitches.

And then... I just double-clicked one of the remaining vector text layers to change the text, and while the lag hasn't come back, the broken Text tool issue has returned. I'd been changing this particular text repeatedly just minutes earlier and suddenly it decided not to cooperate. On both my working file and other jpgs open at the same time (as well as a new file I started), nothing happens when I click the Text tool cursor on the image. I can't change existing vector text or create new text. (For a while, on the pspimage file all the tools disappeared again, too.)

I closed down the open files but PSP won't close (have to force a close even though it's "working" - I can select colors, create new files etc., and the file doesn't say Not Responding in Windows Task Manager). After rebooting everything works fine again.

So the problem is the Text tool (but only that) is "crashing". This is in addition to the intermittent lagging which appears to be related to vector layers (shapes and text).

[Jean-Luc]

Lag may be caused by a too big history embedded in the image. See Image/Image information/Edit history.

[gingerbread]

Lag may be caused by a too big history embedded in the image. See Image/Image information/Edit history.

Doesn't that get erased each time you close and reopen the file?

[migf1]

Hello gingerbread,

this may be a long shot, but if you have text attached to shapes try detaching them and see if that makes any difference (try also not to use very long texts). If that's the cause of the issuses, I don't really have any solutions other than maybe rasterizing the attached texts, or save the vector ones as stand-alone files, so you can copy & paste them into your main file, where you can then rasterize them before (re)saving the main file.

When I detach the shape from the object, it reverts to a straight line. I only learned how to do this the other day so I'm probably doing it wrong... but the lag problem has been happening a lot longer than that (months, including my prior version of PSP and now X8 as well).

Text reverting to straight is expected behavior when detaching it. I suggested that so you can see if the attaching (fit to path) was the main source of your problem, but from the rest of your posts in the topic, seems like it is vector texts in general. I too have random issues with vector texts in PSP (especially complex ones, or long ones, or attached ones). PSP 2021 seems to be more stable in that area, although I haven't stressed it very much yet. In general, PSP doesn't seem to be a happy place when it comes to complex vector texts (and/or adjustment layers for that matter).

I'll try making everything raster and see if that helps. Thanks for the idea. It's driving me nuts because it seems to be so random - although over the past few days it's worse than ever.

Your very welcome! It is just a not-very-convenient workaround really, but most of the times it works. Keep your complex vector texts in their own separate .pspimage files, even attached on shapes, and such (but not all texts in 1 file). When you need them, open their file(s) and then copy & paste them into your main file. It will hopefully even allow you to re-adjust them. Make sure you rasterize them indise the main file, before saving it.

EDIT: The rationale behind this is that you only have 1 complex vector text at any given time inside the main file, so chances are PSP will be able to handle it, and if so you can then rasterize it and save the main file. Also you only keep 1 complex vector text saved in its own separate file.

[Jean-Luc]

Doesn't that get erased each time you close and reopen the file?

If History is enabled, all actions are recorded and added to the bottom of the history. They are not erased.
See for yourself with your problematic file.

[gingerbread]

If History is enabled, all actions are recorded and added to the bottom of the history. They are not erased.
See for yourself with your problematic file.

I just opened the problem file and the history is empty, so I think it must not be enabled. (Preferences says I have 10 "non-undoable steps" in History palette.)

Under image > image information there is a history but I'm not sure what it's telling me... What am I supposed to do with it?