Does the automatic correction of lenses work in PaintShop?

[Alejandro]

I am trying PaintShop 2021.

Does the automatic correction of lenses work?

I loaded a Raw image (from a Sony camera) taken with a Tokina 11-16 F/2.8 taken at a 11 mm focal distance and nothing seams to happen (as seen in the before and after windows) when I choose the lens from the lenses profile list and set it to do an automatic correction. Further more, no matter which lens I tell the program that I used (I tried with several different lenses), nothing happens to the image.

The same in PaintShop. I uploaded some tiff images and the program recognizes the camera and lens used, but no correction is done to the image no matter which lens I choose to set as the one I used when asking the program to do an automatic lens correction. I even tried with old photos that had no lens correction at all and also with jpgs from a compact camera, but no correction is applied.

Am I doing something wrong or am I missing to set something in a particular manner that I am not becoming aware of?

[Andy2011]

The 'Automatic' setting in PSP 2020 does not work for me either - with both Nikon NEF and Sony ARW. The manual correction has an effect so I wonder if the lens database hasn't been populated fully.
In any case, the RAW processing in PSP is very basic. They suggest Aftershot -I have version Afershot Pro 3. That does work as long as it is with a supported camera. I did manage to add my Sony 'bridge' RX10 IV which was missing from the latest update.
However, the open source application Darktable does work with all my cameras - and has geotagging support which has been dropped by PSP.

[Alejandro]

Andy2011,
I tried with other different raw files and the automatic correction did never work for me.
If nobody writes that it works for him, I ought to conclude that it simply doesn’t work in PaintShop and is not something that I might be doing wrong or inherent to my copy of the program.

To develop my raw files I use the DxO program (which is quite expensive in comparison), but I was trying to find out if it was worth it for me to update to PaintShop 2021 (I have PaintShop Pro x6 as I think Corel’s is a nice program to edit tiff or jpg) and in the process I also checked if the automatic correction would work fine. It seems it doesn’t. Apart from the one from DxO, I have other programs as well (free and paid, but which names I will not mention here as I am in Corel’s forum) that can do an automatic correction of lenses’ distortions, so I know how it ought to be done and what to expect.

Anyone to whom the automatic correction of lenses’ distortion works?

[rondo]

I use DxO Optics Pro for RAW lens correction, sometimes ASP 3. I then fine tune tiff in PSP. Cameras and lenses I have work fine in automatic correction in PSP because they are in their database- I just prefer DxO as it does a much better job.
Trouble with lens corrections are that the particular lens has to be in the programs database- of which there are thousands. DxO has the most, and tests each lens and develops a profile for it. https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/
I think it is too much data for PSP to handle or programmers don't want to do the extensive work to build a lens profile database.
Same is true for so many different cameras RAW profiles- but they take less work for programmers to put into and update for PSP.

[Jean-Luc]

I think it is too much data for PSP to handle or programmers don't want to do the extensive work to build a lens profile database.
Same is true for so many different cameras RAW profiles- but they take less work for programmers to put into and update for PSP.

Corel doesn't develop such addons. They buy from external companies and incorporate them in PSP. Corel must wait until those companies have done the job. See the third-party companies in Help / About / Legal Info.

[Alejandro]

No photo editing program recognizes what lens has been used by the image per se (raw files are not images but you'll get the point). In order to do a correction of a lens’ optical distortion, it uses the EXIF data by which the program gets to know which camera and lens was used and at which focal distance has the photo been taken. If you tell a program (one that has a function to do an automatic correction of lenses’ distortions), that a different lens has been used, it would do the correction that ought to be done for that lens (which therefore would be a wrong correction, but there would nevertheless be a correction done if that lens needs one for the focal distance at which the photo was taken).

I made several tests with different images in Paintshop, but I’ll go back to the example I mentioned above, a test with a raw file shot with a Sony camera and a Tokina 11-16 f/2,8 lens at a focal distance of 11 mm. Paintshop recognizes the camera and the Tokina 11-16 lens is in the list of lenses that supposedly has a correction profile. But not only no correction is done when I tell the program that that was the lens used, I neither get any correction nor alteration of the image (it always stays the same) when trying with different lenses that are listed.

Having said so, I ought to think that what might be happening is one of the following:

1- The program has a vast list of lenses but no profiles for them. This is not what Corel is saying about his program (they say the program does automatic corrections).

2- The program has a vast list of lenses but not all of them have a profile or a proper profile. If this would be the case, it would be devious, because one would think that if there is a list of lenses, all included in the list ought to have a profile. And it would be misleading to the photographer because he wouldn’t know when a needed correction is properly applied and when not.

3- Corel is buying the profiles from a company (as Jean-Luc said), but from one that does not know how to do them properly (in case all the lenses listed are supposed to have a profile) or does know, but is deceiving Corel for whichever reason.

4- It is me that is doing something wrong. But till now there has been nobody that has written in this thread that for him the automatic correction function works properly, and I don’t think (till anyone proves me wrong) that it is me who does not know how to set the program so as to do an automatic correction. As I said, I have other programs (not only Paintshop) and have tried the demos of several more, and they properly do what they ought to do regarding what we are talking about.
I mentioned that I use the DxO program to develop my raw files which properly does the job, but I will just mention another example of another program because it is a free program (and I am trying to avoid mentioning programs of Corel’s competitors): Capture One Espress for Sony. It has a not very vast list of lenses that suit Sony cameras with an A mount (kind of limited list), but it does correct the optical distortions of those few lenses for Sony A mount cameras that are included in the list.

I have sent an e-mail to Corel's customers support bringing up the issue. I’ll wait and see what will their final answer be.

[Ravelli]

Hi all,
I'm no expert on raw image editing, but when I load a Sony *.arw file from my RX100, PSP 2019 does not show it correctly, so I have to apply a fish-eye-lens correction. The camera is from 2013 and officially supported by PSP, but apparently not fully.
Friendly greetings,
Ravelli

p.s.: I suppose it is a bug in PSP, not in the camera profiles, because I can select whatever camera profile in the raw-image editor, it does not change the result, it is always wrong.

[Alejandro]

Ravelli,
The same happened on my side. I also have a Sony DSC-Rx100 and also tried to see if the program would automatically correct the photos taken with it.

I have a Sony Rx100, a Sony Alpha A580 and a Sony Alpha A230 and several lenses (primes and zooms for the Sony Alpha cameras). I particularly mentioned in the thread I opened, the photo I took with the Tokina 11-16 mm using a focal distance of 11 mm, because Paintshop 2021 (trial version) recognized the Sony A230 and although at first the program thought (it was stated were the automatic correction ought to be done) that I have used a 20 mm lens for which it nevertheless did no correction, the Tokina 11-16 mm which I used is in the list, and when I chose this lens, the program didn’t make any correction either, although the image needed one. The raw file taken with this lens is the one I sent by e-mail to Corel’s support when I brought up the issue directly to them in order to allow them to check what I was saying.

I have other programs (none of them being from Adobe) that do the expected corrections without any problem. The program from DxO which I already mentioned does it; two other paid programs that I have that develop raw files and can edit tiff or jpg (one of which overdoes a little the correction of the photo taken at a focal distance of 11 mm); and Capture One Express for Sony (free version). Capture One does not have the specific profile for the Tokina 11-16 when used with a Sony, it has the profiles for the lens if used with a Canon or with a Nikon, but as many Nikon cameras use Sony sensors and the size of Nikon’s APS-C sensors is the same as Sony’s, the automatic correction made by Capture One (once I chose the Tokina lens but for Nikon) was fine.

Maybe PaintShop automatically corrects the distortions of some of the lenses included in the list of which I would have thought all ought to be expected to have their due correction applied. But there is no way for me to even be certain if this is so. It did not work with the lenses I have for which I made my trials with the program.

[Alejandro]

Well, I finally got a reply from Corel’s customer support to whom I brought up the issue being discussed (well, not that much discussed) in this thread.

I sent them the raw file of a photo I shot with a Sony A-230 camera using a Tokina 11-16 mm lens, which are both included in the dropdown list of cameras and lenses that appear where the automatic correction of lenses distortions ought to be done.

They answered me in Spanish (textually) as follows:

“Gracias por su contacto.
Nuestro agente del segundo nivel le desea informar que probamos su imagen en Lightroom y obtuvimos el mismo resultado usted tiene en PaintShop Pro 2021. 
Algunas cámaras no tienen el software y las lentes que permiten utilizar la corrección automática de la lente. 
Usted necesita hacerlo manualmente.”

Which, translated to English, is this:

“Thanks for contacting. Our second level agent would like to inform you that we tested your image in Lightroom and got the same result you have in PaintShop Pro 2021. Some cameras do not have the software and lenses that allow you to use automatic lens correction. You need to do it manually.”

[migf1]

Thanks for the update Alejandro!

You did say though that Dxo and a couple other programs you tried, do the job just fine... right?

[Alejandro]

Migf1,
Yes, DxO (which is the one I mainly use to develop my raw files), and other programs that I have and also use but mainly to edit tiff and jpg but that can also develop raw (and which names I have avoided mentioning in order to be polite and diplomatic because I am in Corel’s Forum, but which maybe might be guessed). None of them being from Adobe (I abandoned Adobe’s programs long ago, since they became just to be rented).

[migf1]

Alejandro,

this probably means that both PSP and LR fall short when it comes to these specific camera models/lenses. Maybe you should let Corel know which programs handle it properly, it may help them for a future update.

[Alejandro]

Migf1,
When I wrote to Corel (we had an exchange of e-mails) I told them which are the programs I have (paid programs) that can handle all the lenses which I own that are in their lists of lenses which distortions can be automatically corrected. It is in this forum that I am not mentioning their names (for courtesy). Part of Corel’s answer to me was that Lightroom can’t do the correction for the lens and camera combination I sent them, though I can’t care less because I don’t have Lightroom (and therefore I can’t even check if this is so) and the programs I have or have tried, except PainthShop (which includes both the Sony A230 which it recognizes automatically and the Tokina lens in their list and therefore I find this to be the main problem), can.

I did mention the DxO program, because it is specialized in developing raw (and in this respect it plays in a different league) and Capture One Express because it is also specialized in developing Raw, in this respect it also plays in a different league, and it is for free.

DxO's automatic lens correction function can handle all the cameras and lenses combinations that I have. Capture One does not have profiles for any of the Minolta lenses I have (Minolta lenses are not even covered by them) and does not have a profile for a Tamron SP 17-50mm f/2.8 that I own (it does for the Tokina 11-16mm for Nikon which works also for Sony as their APS-C sensors are the same size and many Nikon cameras use Sony Sensors, if I tell the program -choosing it form the list- that this was the lens I used). Except for DxO, none of the other programs I have has a profile for a Sony 28mm f/2.8 lens that I own that needs a correction. The two programs which names I didn’t mention don’t have a correction profile for the Minolta 50mm f/1.7 and Sony 85mm f/2.8 lenses that I own but that don’t need to be corrected anyway (specially if used with a camera with an APS-C sensor), but they do have profiles for the rest of the lenses and cameras combinations that I have, including others that I haven’t mentioned here.

Regarding PaintShop, I have the x6 version (and also previous versions) which I like as a program for editing tiff and jpg files. The x6 version did not yet have a lens distortion correction function. The trials I made with the automatic lens correction function refer to PaintShop 2020 which demo/trial I downloaded and tried a few months ago and with PaintShop 2021 which demo I also downloaded and had been trying now.
I also have an old version of AfterShot which I stopped using because, among other reasons, long time ago lens profiles stopped being added for it (I don’t know if this has changed now) and the system within it to do a manual correction is kind of complicated and awkward and even if it were simple to do, it is something I wouldn’t bother doing for a zoom lens (whilst regarding prime lenses, most or many of them don’t need any correction to be done and I wouldn’t mind doing a manual correction for one of these if eventually needed, as it would always be for a fixed and unique focal distance).

You see, I like taking photos of varied subjects, but one of them is photos of architecture. Specially for architectural and interior photography, the ability of a program to be able to properly correct optical distortions of lenses is a must, and therefore, it is something I ought to be aware of.

[migf1]

Ah ok, so you have already told them!

So judging from their reply, I'm afraid it seems like they do not intend to further investigate the issue.