Best shutter speed for fps

Best shutter speed for fps

Postby jparnold » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:34 am

Watching a Youtube video which included best camera settings (this was for a drone camera not a video camera but surely that doesn't make a difference) the author suggested the following (obtainable only by using ND filters with the drone) -
for 4K at 30 fps use shutter speed 1/60th
for 4K at 60 fps use shutter speed 1/120th

I guess the 4K may not be important and it may be the same for 1080p

Can I start a conversation about this and why the above might be true. All I can think of is to try and prevent strobe effect.

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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby lata » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:03 am

Hi John
First I do not know much about this other than using a normal camera setting exposure and that would not affect strobing as such
The fixed shutter speed allows an amount of light into the camera the aperture being set automatically to control the exposure.
The same amount of light will enter the camera for both of those settings.
A video takes multiple frames over one second
Increasing the FPS will allow a smoother recording especially when panning , faster movements by the camera would benefit by using faster frame rates
I would imagine changing the FPS would automatically set the shutter speed to retain exposure, of course most cameras also have full manual options.

Basically if you are recording fast moving subjects increasing the frame rate will give smoother results.
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby jparnold » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:33 pm

Thanks Trevor
This is going to be hard to describe and I hope you understand what I am getting at.
I was wondering if what the author of the video I watched was getting at what sometimes seems to happen when watching fast movement but probably at 25 or 30fps the the video appears to almost flicker. As you watch an object move across the screen VERY quickly and the 'persistance' of the screen is low (this may not happen with lcd screens) and object in the video has moved significantly between each frame but is sharp in each frame. Have I explained what I mean enough? Maybe then a lower shutter speed would be preferable so that the object is slightly blurred due to the movement of the object? I wonder if that is what the author was getting at.
BTW where can I find out how much storage space is required for each minute of video at 4K?
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby tletter » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:32 pm

jparnold wrote:best camera settings

I'd suggest that you post your question on a forum where the camera experts hangout, e.g. DPReview.
jparnold wrote:BTW where can I find out how much storage space is required for each minute of video at 4K?

Storage space depends on a number of factors including data rate and frame rate. For example, a 4K clip with a data rate of 93000kbps and a frame rate of 30fps weighs in at some 705MB per minute.

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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby jparnold » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:00 am

Thanks
I was not aware of DPReview but have now noticed VIDEO and DVD in GENERAL DISCUSSION (I have a link set up which takes me directly to the Videostudio forum and didn't even think to look if there was a forum specifically just for video.

Looking at the properties of video taken at 1080p on both my Panasonic video camera and GoPro (type) camera the bit rate is around 24000kbps and as neither camera has any way to change the bit rate I assumed that recorded 4K video files would all be much the same and also much (bit rate) the same filesize per minute.
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby lata » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:28 am

Hi John
You should be able to change the Data Rate / Bit Rate on the Panasonic, I have Pana 900SD, I see it on the Menu under Record Setup – Rec Mode.
Here I see several options named as HA 1920 etc.
Select the top option, do a short recording, repeat with the other settings.
There is also a button on the side of my camera named 1080 50P, as it indicates will record to 1920 x 1080 50fps progressive ( I think at 25kbps)
The cameras default will record to 1920 x 1080 x 25fps (interlaced- UFF) using a data rate of 1680kbps, approx. 8Gb of data per hour.
and I use 8 Gb SD cards
As you say the data rate is 24kbps I would think your camera is recording to 1920 x 1080 x 50P
I cannot comment on the GoPro camera
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby jparnold » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:30 am

Thanks Trevor,

This is what I found for recording options (in the user manual) -
[PH]/[HA]/[HG]/[HE]*1: Set the recording format to 1080/50i.
[1080/50p]*2: Set the recording format to 1080/50p.

*1 Recording will have higher quality in the order of [PH], [HA], [HG] and [HE].
*2 This option allows you to record in 1080/50p (1920k1080/50 progressive), which is the highest picture quality for this unit.

I know that 1080p is frame based with 25 fps (pal) and 1080i is field based with 50 fields per second (pal) which is 50 pictures per second but only stores the even numbered lines or the odd numbered lines.

I use 1080p as the manual states that this is the highest picture quality and as such have never even seen the options within 1080i.

My reason for the thread was to try and estimate what capacity micro SD card recording at 4K (for my GoPro lookalike) I should purchase. I have quite a few 32Gb cards for 1080p but thought it might be a bit light on for 4K. I thought that it was a reasonably fixed equation (to calculate minutes per Gb). It seems not.
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby lata » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:55 am

Hi John
On my camera after opening the screen, on the body there is a button marked 1080 / 50P
Pressing that switches the recordings between 50P – 50i
50i will allow you to choose / use the PH / HA / settings
I believe HA is set by default, I usually set that to the higher PH option, I do not know what the actual letters mean.

If you burn Bluray then 50P is not Bluray compatible using 1920 x 1080 so you may wish to start recording in 50i
Yes the better quality would be 50P.

Use Video Studio to test sizes
Create a project at 6 minute, then render to various HD and 4K options to compare sizes, simply multiplying the size by 10 will give the rate over 1 hour.
This will at least give you an idea as a full 60 minute recording size may differ a little.
It is the data rate in kbps that most influences file sizes
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby asik1 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:41 pm

Panasonic 4K's are 72Mbps vbr, DSLR's are higher.
So for a start the 32GB card is good 4 ~60min.
But are they good for the speed? what good for HD might not be good for 4k.
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby tletter » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:43 pm

jparnold wrote:This option allows you to record in 1080/50p (1920k1080/50 progressive), which is the highest picture quality for this unit.

You seem to have changed your focus from 4K to FHD. However, 4K is much more demanding than FHD.

jparnold wrote:I have quite a few 32Gb cards for 1080p but thought it might be a bit light on for 4K.

A 32GB card is quite small for 4K and in many modern cameras that record in 4K, your SDHC cards simply won't support 4K at the highest available data rate. For example, if your camera can record at 100Mbps for both 4K or FHD, then you'll need a U3 SDHC/SDXC card. FYI the smallest U3 SDXC card is 64GB.

lata wrote:Create a project at 6 minute, then render to various HD and 4K options to compare sizes

It's worthwhile to note that there are several cameras that have a hard 5 minute limit when recording 4K video clips due to overheating. These are primarily smaller sized cameras.

lata wrote:It is the data rate in kbps that most influences file sizes

The frame rate can have a significant impact as many modern cameras can record at High Frame Rates, e.g. 240fps. The frame rate depends on your application.

Again the experts on cameras are found on the DPReview forums not this forum. Hence you might want to visit the DPReview forums for expert advice on your camera questions.

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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby lata » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:16 pm

John owns a Panasonic 920 series camcorder as such records to 1920 x 1080 in either 50P or 50i there are no other options other than selecting a data rate for 50i.
The camera records to AVCHD creating MTS video files, when using 50i are Bluray compliant
The 920 is one version above the 900 series which I own, with little difference other than supporting 3D, functionality is the same.

John is considering purchasing a GoPro camera, as I mentioned I cannot comment on that camera.
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby tletter » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:19 pm

lata wrote:John owns a Panasonic 920 series camcorder as such records to 1920 x 1080 in either 50P or 50i there are no other options other than selecting a data rate for 50i.

The OP was interested in 4K video as witnessed by his statement that "BTW where can I find out how much storage space is required for each minute of video at 4K?" One assumes that he knows you can't record 4K on a camera that maxs out at FHD.

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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby jparnold » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:12 am

Thanks for all your replies and input.

The question about trying to work out what size SD card for 4K was secondary to the reason for the thread ie Best shutter speed for fps. Maybe I should have started a new thread AND used another forum - sorry for any confusion.

And yes of course the Panasonic 920 (purchased quite a few years ago probably before 4K) can't record at 4K.

(Trevor) Regarding using 50i for burning BluRay disks - I have never wanted to create BluRay disks and probably never will. I render to 1080 MP4 and store videos on usb memory sticks to watch on TV.
I assume that burning BlueRAy disks probably allows the creation on menus etc which I used to do when burning to DVD but don't bother with menus anymore (and DVD disks).
As such I assume that using 1080p is better (when not wanting to create BlueRay disks)? I mainly use my Panasonic video camera (at 1080p) but since getting a GoPro (lookalike) for those 'tight' situations such as inside a small room, walking down a corridor etc) where the also incorporate video from my GoPro (lookalike) which also is at 1080p BUT wondered if using 4K and then trying to incorporate in a 1080 rendered video would be better but I am assuming not.

Thanks again.
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby lata » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:16 am

Yes continuing using 50P, in fact I find Video Studio handles 50P better than 50i in respect to navigating the timelines and refresh rates. So where I needed smart proxy for 50i I could get away without using 50P

Good camera
Regards Trevor
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Re: Best shutter speed for fps

Postby jparnold » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:54 am

That's good to know Trevor especially as it is now at least 5 years old and probably 6.
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