MSP8 Beta Feedback

matthew180 · Post by **matthew180** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:54 pm

Greetings,

A couple of things I found myself wanting while trying MSP8:

1. Several times I really needed an image of the current frame to make a mask with. A simple right-click->save frame as... option would have been nice. I did find the "image sequence" feature, but not until later. I didn't try it yet, but if I export an image sequence, do I have to reimport the images?

2. A "show full frame size" button would be nice to quickly size the preview window to 720x480 or whatever the project is set to.

3. While using the bluescreen and color key overlays, I found it very hard to pick the proper color with the small preview provided. A zoom-in/out would help greatly!

4. There are no help balloons on the overlay window so it took some playing around to figure out what was happening. The interface is very intuitive though, and it didn't take too long. However, getting to the exact point in my 2-hour clip was difficult since the slider control is so small.

5. In the overlay window, it is not obvious which settings are retained by each of the keypoints (keyframes?) added along the clip. I only wanted a color key for a small portion of the clip, so I added a keypoint at the end point of the effect and set the Type to None. This seemed to affect the whole overlay, but the color key's color seems to be retained by each keypoint. So in the end it all worked out, but it took some playing around.

So, when is MSP8 going to be available? Should I hold off buying MSP7? Unfortunately I installed the MSP7 trial about 2 months ago and didn't get the time to try it until a few days ago and of course it had expired. So now that I've had a taste of MSP8, will I be frustrated with MSP7? What would the upgrade cost be?

For the clip I need to currently work with, I relied on MSP8's overlay effects and the very easy to use Title Clip editor/creator. I had my titles created in no time! Would I have such tools (color key overlay and title editor with text effects) available in MSP7 (again, my trial is expired.)

Last, is the creation of QuickTime video something that is build into MSP, or do I need the full version of QuickTime as well?

Thanks,
Matthew

ejskater16 · Post by **ejskater16** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:54 pm

Hi!

I think I can help you out a little on some of your questions...

1. It is very easy to save a frame as an image file, (in both MSP7 and 8 ), all you need to do is direct yourself to the desired frame, and then in either the Preview Window (if you've applied effects that need to be part of the image, for example) or the Source Window, click on the "Preview(or Source) Window Options" button, it's on the bottom right side of the window. Then go to "Save Image To" and pick either Production Library, File, or Clipboard.

2. I'm pretty sure you can just drag the edges of the Preview Window to Re-Size it... and if it is always starting out at the wrong size I think you can change this buy fixing the frame size in the Project Settings options... (Alt+Enter)

3. I'm have also been frustrated with this in the past... I was hoping that in MSP8 we would finally be able to have a LARGER window to more easily obtain decent color keying / and the like results! (Anyone know if there's some sort of work-around?)

4. If you use the Effects Manager box to control your overlay options, you can zoom/in out on the timeline using the slider bar in the top left corner, which I think would help you here...

5. Yeah... I'm pretty sure that the Type can't change over time, so what I'd do is I guess just put a keyframe right after the keyframe marking where your key effect ends, and change the blend/transparency options so that the color key becomes ineffective.

I think I read that MSP8 should be coming out sometime in October... (perfect timing to release a preview... so by the time they run out we will all be ready to buy the full version!

)

I would reccomend holding off on buying MSP7... Overlay effects are pretty much the same as far as I know, between 7 and 8, but the titler in MSP8 is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better! (If you use it often, I would really reccomend waiting for 8...) As far as quicktime, well, it's a free download on Apple's website, so you don't need to purchase anything to be able to create a .mov video file... (Something I'm unclear of though... If I'm not mistaken, Quicktime 7 isn't fully available for Windows yet... so... if you download the 7 thing on the website, it makes it impossible to compress with quictime in MSP... right?)

As far as the upgrade price, I think you can safely say it will be around 1/2 or so of what the full price is... maybe around $200?

Terry Stetler · Post by **Terry Stetler** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:53 am

Key effects and other Overlay Option controls can also be manipulated in the Effects Manager.

You'll find its keyframer far superior to the legacy dialogs left in the program for those upgraders just getting their feet wet. Just select the keyed clip then its overlay options entry in the EM's left/top panel and the new dialog will open below it.

The EM's new keyframer (worth the price of admission all by itself IMO) can be zoomed in for frame accuracy or resized along with the whole EM when the EM is un-docked (doubleclick its title bar). You can also move the boundary bars between the 3 main EM sections to change their relative sizes to suit your needs.

To do the color pick in the EM use the video frame in its dialog. The preview will play in the main program Preview Window.

To limit the key to a portion of the keyframe timeline set the similarity, blend/opacity/transparancy etc. to 0 for all but the time interval where you want a key in effect. Each keyframes settings will be reflected by the value settings in the dialog.

If the default Preview/Source Window is too small for your taste just size it as you want then un-check the "Resize" options in the Preview and Source window menus. The new setting will now "stick".

Just remember that changing its height will affect the amount of space available for the timeline. It's new height will also be reflected by higher EM and Production Library windows.

Just like the EM and other control windows the Preview Window can be un-docked by doubleclicking its title bar.

ejskater16 · Post by **ejskater16** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:19 am

So would I be correct in saying that the tiny box that you can use the color picker to choose with in the EM cannot be resized? I know you can pull the boundry arrow things, but this doesn't change the size of the video box within the EM, which means, I think, that it is still hard to be very precise when picking a color to key!

Joe Linn · Post by **Joe Linn** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:54 pm

Are we supposed to report bugs we find in MSP8? I tried the link in the email, but it said it is only for feedback, not technical problems. I tried the technical problem form, but it only allows you to report problems on products for which you are registered. I tried to register, version 8 is not an option on the MSP registration page.

The problem I am having is the MSP8 crashes when I try to use "split by scene" on HD video from the Sony HC1. After I select "scan", it will begin scanning and after detecting a couple scenes, it crashes.

This is some of the technical information it reports to Microsoft:

Exception Information
Code: 0xc0000005 Flags: 0x00000000
Record 0x0000000000000000 Addresss 0xc0000000000872225
Module 1 veditor.dat

Thanks

Joe

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:27 pm

ejskater16 wrote:So would I be correct in saying that the tiny box that you can use the color picker to choose with in the EM cannot be resized? I know you can pull the boundry arrow things, but this doesn't change the size of the video box within the EM, which means, I think, that it is still hard to be very precise when picking a color to key!

At the moment, try the OLD Method.

Right-click the video clip, select Overlay Options. Then in the Type pulldown menu, try Blue Screen.

Then to pick your color, drag the eyedropper to form a rectangle for the area to key (set Similarity accordingly).

Let us know if that has any better results...

Chris0709 · Post by **Chris0709** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:38 pm

One thing I have noticed with MS8 is the tranisitions and wipes don't function correctly. When I do a basic side wipe and apply a soft edge to it, the finished result doesn't look right. For example, when you do it from a diagonal corner with the soft edge applied, the end result is not diagonal anymore. It does something really retarded. A good source to compare too would be the wipes used in the movie "Star Wars". These are what these tranisitions should look like when the soft edge is used, and they do not look like this when applied in MS8. I know for fact that it is not my system or hardware causing the problem cause I am running Win XP on a Pentium 4 3.4 GB chip with hyperthreading and 1 MB cache and 2GB of DDR RAM.

Another issue is rendering in Dolby Digital mono. That option has disappeared. Also, what about 23.97 fps rendering in MPEG. All the advance functionality of the MPEG encoder has been greyed out. These were very useful tools for advanced users of MPEG encoding. Cannot even apply a 3:2 pulldown on 24p footage.

Another issue is the CG Infinity and Paint programs are not included in the Beta preview release of MS8. I hope they will be included in the official release. I still use the CG Infinity program a lot.

Chris0709 · Post by **Chris0709** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:40 pm

One thing I have noticed with MS8 is the tranisitions and wipes don't function correctly. When I do a basic side wipe and apply a soft edge to it, the finished result doesn't look right. For example, when you do it from a diagonal corner with the soft edge applied, the end result is not diagonal anymore. It does something really retarded. A good source to compare too would be the wipes used in the movie "Star Wars". These are what these tranisitions should look like when the soft edge is used, and they do not look like this when applied in MS8. I know for fact that it is not my system or hardware causing the problem cause I am running Win XP on a Pentium 4 3.4 GB chip with hyperthreading and 1 MB cache and 2GB of DDR RAM.

Another issue is rendering in Dolby Digital mono. That option has disappeared. Also, what about 23.97 fps rendering in MPEG. All the advance functionality of the MPEG encoder has been greyed out. These were very useful tools for advanced users of MPEG encoding. Cannot even apply a 3:2 pulldown on 24p footage.

Another issue is the CG Infinity and Paint programs are not included in the Beta preview release of MS8. I hope they will be included in the official release. I still use the CG Infinity program a lot.

Terry Stetler · Post by **Terry Stetler** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:05 am

Yes, the soft edge is still under construction. Look closer and you'll see that the soft edge blurs the whole frame and not just the edge in many effects.

Why use Dolby 1/0? MPEG mono is just as compatable.

As noted before we can't discuss what will be included in the release package.

Chris0709 · Post by **Chris0709** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:20 am

First off, I apologize for my post appearing twice, previously. I don't know what happened there.

I use dolby digital mono quite a bit as most of the production work I am involved with has only been miked for mono. The reason I use dolby digital as opposed to mpeg mono is that, as I understand it, is the most compatible with NTSC DVD video players. There, apparently, seems to be a problem with MPEG audio on some NTSC players.

Since the beta version is available, how come it is still a hush job on final release functionality?

Hopefully, as I stated before, the advanced function menu on the MPEG encoder will be fully operational in the final version. This is very important.

Terry Stetler · Post by **Terry Stetler** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:31 am

It's still hush hush because Ulead has only partially relased us from the NDA.

If we betas violate that thing we might not be around for the service packs or MSP9, and we wouldn't want that now, would we?

In my experience MPEG audio has only been a problem on players >3-4 years old. Everything recent I've used plays MPEG just fine. This wasn't the case with my first DVD deck, the Philips 815. That thing could barely play VideoCD burned on recordable media.

Modern DVD chipsets are often used in both NTSC and PAL devices with just a firmware change providing the region definition. Since PAL uses MPEG as its primary target modern chipsets have to support both Dolby (the primary for NTSC) and MPEG.

It just isn't practical to make two versions of the same chipset just for this, which is why firmware hacks can make most players region free (which also means able to play NTSC and PAL).

What to look for in MPEG capable decks:

1. the ability to play VideoCD and SuperVideoCD (both use MPEG audio)
2. multi-region (meaning PAL support => MPEG audio)

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:05 am

Don't know whether the idea appeals to you, but I frequently convert mono to pseudo-stereo using MSP AE or Audacity. On occasion, I have subtly used the pan control for special effects. One example was a dialogue I was filming with a single mono mike, where I pushed the slider left of centre when one bloke was speaking and right of centre for the other.

Of course, another advantage is if adding incidental music.

I now use AC-3 2/0 at 192 kbit/s for everything, whether mono (converted) or stereo.

Terry Stetler · Post by **Terry Stetler** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:14 pm

Me too. I haven't used mono audilo since I got rid of the VHS camcorder

THoff · Post by **THoff** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:40 pm

Terry Stetler wrote:In my experience MPEG audio has only been a problem on players >3-4 years old. Everything recent I've used plays MPEG just fine. This wasn't the case with my first DVD deck, the Philips 815. That thing could barely play VideoCD burned on recordable media.

Still, the NTSC DVD templates for MS8 incorrectly use MPEG audio, which is not part of the NTSC DVD standard and will undoubtedly cause many problems. I hope Ulead corrects this before releasing the product to manufacturing.

Terry Stetler · Post by **Terry Stetler** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:23 pm

Wrong.

in the DVD standard MPEG (MPEG-2 5.1 VBR/CBR and MPEG-1 layer 2 stereo CBR @224 kbps), LPCM (uncompressed) and DTS are all listed as "DVD legal". All require 48 khz sampling. As noted MPEG-1 layer 2 stereo is locked at 224 kbps while the others can go higher.

Where the rub comes is in the production of DVD decks themselves, not the authoring of the discs.

The standard for NTSC decks requires both Dolby and LPCM be mandated with MPEG audio listed as an "optional" decoder. In PAL the situation is reversed; MPEG and LPCM are mandated and Dolby is the "optional" decoder.

In todays world of high competition trade hardlly anyone is going to produce two chipsets for their decks for cost reasons, meaning the capabilty to play MPEG and Dolby audio will be in most all chipsets.

Result: most any deck worth having will play Dolby and MPEG, especially if it has VideoCD/SVCD support (most all do), which also requires MPEG. This is doubly true for "multi-regional" decks which can play content from all DVD regions.

Tip: if you want a deck that'll play about anything round with a hole in it get one of the Chinese decks. I've seen $40-75 models that make $250 name brand decks look downright silly

No, I haven't tried a sliced bagel....yet

Alludo USER to USER Web Board

MSP8 Beta Feedback

MSP8 Beta Feedback

Wipes and Transitions

Wipes and Transitions