jchunter:
The Computer I am testing MSP8/VS9 High Definition is a old computer P4 1.4G with a 20Gig Boot disk and a 40Gig data disk 512Meg Memory. I know its slow but I wanted to try everything before I installed it on my faster computer.
When I capture HD video it is very choppy and when I preview HD video in the multi trim mode it is choppy.
When I make a file it renders very fast if I chose the properties same as first video clip. As I said before after the file is rendered it plays fine in the preview screen.
Right now I am experimenting with HD Video and will get serious with it when I have learned what the programs are capable of (VS9/MSP8).
I have a computer that is over twice as fast but I don't want to install the HDV plugin because it disables my Hauppauge plugin for VS9. I am currently copying VHS/BETA tapes and creating DVD from them and can't give up the use of my Hauppauge Capture Card.
High Definition Video
Moderator: Ken Berry
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jchunter
Tyamada,
Yes, 1.4 GHz could certinly make playback difficult... You also do not have much memory headroom for temporary buffers and virtual memory. When you do install VS9 on a faster machine, please report back the playback quality. Actually, I am amazed that you can edit HD video at all.
I experience smooth playback with 3GHz, 1GB in Edit mode except for transitions. I have already reported this to Ulead and I hope that they will correct this situation in the HDV plug. I have also requested an Export facility back to the camcorder and an Import facility for m2t files that are already in the computer.
John
Yes, 1.4 GHz could certinly make playback difficult... You also do not have much memory headroom for temporary buffers and virtual memory. When you do install VS9 on a faster machine, please report back the playback quality. Actually, I am amazed that you can edit HD video at all.
I experience smooth playback with 3GHz, 1GB in Edit mode except for transitions. I have already reported this to Ulead and I hope that they will correct this situation in the HDV plug. I have also requested an Export facility back to the camcorder and an Import facility for m2t files that are already in the computer.
John
I wouldn't expect Ulead to give you the ability to write HDV back to tape if they are charging $300.00 for the plugin in MSP7. Capturing to a .m2t file would be great but MSP8 doesn't capture in that format. It captures video in mpg(HD) format.
MSP8 uses proxy files to edit and output to m2t file, it takes about 8 minutes to build the proxy file for a 2 minute video (slow computer).
As I said before once the video is rendered in VS9 it works fine in the preview screen. I don't know why the video is choppy when it is captured and before rendering.
My slow computer used to be my primary machine for video before all the latest hardware, it has been a work horse and is very stable, that is why I am using it for my experiments.
Just installed HDV plugin on my fast computer. P-4 3.0 Gig 3 Gig Memory HDD 30 GIG OS, 200 GIG Data, 250 GIG data, NVidia MX440 VIdeo, Firewire and all the rest of the junk.
The video capture is choppier than the slow computer, the clock on the upper right counts minutes and seconds properly but the preview screen stumbles and looks like it locks up and the clock on the bottom right of the preview screen also stops. After the capture has stopped and the video is placed on the time line, playing the file is smooth (unlike the slow computer). Rendering is very fast if properties are not changed.
MSP8 uses proxy files to edit and output to m2t file, it takes about 8 minutes to build the proxy file for a 2 minute video (slow computer).
As I said before once the video is rendered in VS9 it works fine in the preview screen. I don't know why the video is choppy when it is captured and before rendering.
My slow computer used to be my primary machine for video before all the latest hardware, it has been a work horse and is very stable, that is why I am using it for my experiments.
Just installed HDV plugin on my fast computer. P-4 3.0 Gig 3 Gig Memory HDD 30 GIG OS, 200 GIG Data, 250 GIG data, NVidia MX440 VIdeo, Firewire and all the rest of the junk.
The video capture is choppier than the slow computer, the clock on the upper right counts minutes and seconds properly but the preview screen stumbles and looks like it locks up and the clock on the bottom right of the preview screen also stops. After the capture has stopped and the video is placed on the time line, playing the file is smooth (unlike the slow computer). Rendering is very fast if properties are not changed.
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jchunter
Progress report
I was finally able to convert my edited HD mpeg2 file back to transport format (.m2t) in preparation for sending it back to the HC1 camcorder (if I only had one here…). I used a trial version of Womble, which I downloaded from www.womble.com\download\. This program is a semi complete video editor, buggy, terrible documentation, and bad Windows manners but after fighting with it for a long time was finally able to coax it to packtetize my 1440x1080 HD video file into .m2t format and to verify with VLC that it worked. BTW, the secret is that the Export window has a Save Range area and the “ALL” button does not select ALL the video file. You have to mark out the entire file on the timeline and then press the “WorkArea” button to get a range. After you do this, the All button begins to work…
Creating the 33 second 100 MB .m2t file took all of 20 seconds, which confirms my suspicions that there is no reason why Media Studio Pro should need 16 minutes to convert a 1.5 minute video.
The complete sequence of steps to convert with Womble is as follows:
1. Select File Tab in Project window,
2. Open mpeg2 file and drag into timeline.
3. Set Mark-In and Mark-Out to select the range to convert. (small up and down triangles on right of timeline display)
4. SaveAs the project, (nearly invisible icon second to the right, above the left side of the timeline)
5. Open the Export window (floating toolbar, 5th icon from left),
6. Browse for the Project in “Project File”,
7. Browse for an output file name with extension m2t,
8. Select Mpeg-2 Transport in “Format”,
9. Press “Work Area” button to select range (“All” button works weirdly, sometimes, or not at all)
10. Go to last tab (“Monitor”), It should say “Press Start to build a MPEG-2 Transport Stream”
11. Verify m2t format with VLC.
Now, the question is, can I hook up the HC1 to the computer’s firewire port and use the Windows Explorer to transfer the m2t file to the HC1 or will we need a more complicated protocol? The USB2 connection might also work...
Tyamada, will you please check this out when you have some time?
John
I was finally able to convert my edited HD mpeg2 file back to transport format (.m2t) in preparation for sending it back to the HC1 camcorder (if I only had one here…). I used a trial version of Womble, which I downloaded from www.womble.com\download\. This program is a semi complete video editor, buggy, terrible documentation, and bad Windows manners but after fighting with it for a long time was finally able to coax it to packtetize my 1440x1080 HD video file into .m2t format and to verify with VLC that it worked. BTW, the secret is that the Export window has a Save Range area and the “ALL” button does not select ALL the video file. You have to mark out the entire file on the timeline and then press the “WorkArea” button to get a range. After you do this, the All button begins to work…
Creating the 33 second 100 MB .m2t file took all of 20 seconds, which confirms my suspicions that there is no reason why Media Studio Pro should need 16 minutes to convert a 1.5 minute video.
The complete sequence of steps to convert with Womble is as follows:
1. Select File Tab in Project window,
2. Open mpeg2 file and drag into timeline.
3. Set Mark-In and Mark-Out to select the range to convert. (small up and down triangles on right of timeline display)
4. SaveAs the project, (nearly invisible icon second to the right, above the left side of the timeline)
5. Open the Export window (floating toolbar, 5th icon from left),
6. Browse for the Project in “Project File”,
7. Browse for an output file name with extension m2t,
8. Select Mpeg-2 Transport in “Format”,
9. Press “Work Area” button to select range (“All” button works weirdly, sometimes, or not at all)
10. Go to last tab (“Monitor”), It should say “Press Start to build a MPEG-2 Transport Stream”
11. Verify m2t format with VLC.
Now, the question is, can I hook up the HC1 to the computer’s firewire port and use the Windows Explorer to transfer the m2t file to the HC1 or will we need a more complicated protocol? The USB2 connection might also work...
Tyamada, will you please check this out when you have some time?
John
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jchunter
The program CapDVHS is reported to be able to read and write m2t files from/to camcorder tape.
CapDVHS version 0.3.0.6 can be downloaded from: http://home.earthlink.net/~weathersix/other.htm
This is a fairly primitive program but is reported to work. As a test, I attached my GS400 to the firewire connection to the computer and CapDVHS recognized it as both a capture device and a writable tape unit.
The first Tab, labled "Reserve", is used for transfering.m2t data from the camcorder to the computer and the forth tab, labled "WrtDVHS." is used to transfer .m2t file out to the camcorder tape.
I would very much like to know if an m2t file that is transferred in this way from computer to the HC1 tape can be played by the HC1...
John
CapDVHS version 0.3.0.6 can be downloaded from: http://home.earthlink.net/~weathersix/other.htm
This is a fairly primitive program but is reported to work. As a test, I attached my GS400 to the firewire connection to the computer and CapDVHS recognized it as both a capture device and a writable tape unit.
The first Tab, labled "Reserve", is used for transfering.m2t data from the camcorder to the computer and the forth tab, labled "WrtDVHS." is used to transfer .m2t file out to the camcorder tape.
I would very much like to know if an m2t file that is transferred in this way from computer to the HC1 tape can be played by the HC1...
John
jchunter:
Thanks for the heads up on the two programs.
I downloaded both an here are the results.
Womble looks like a good program, haven't had much time to play with it.
I used your instructions to get a.m2t file and tryed to output it to the HC-1.
There is no provisions in Explorer that shows the camera and the USB port is only 1.1 and has no streaming capabilities, it's only use is to download still pictures from the memory stick.
The Camera shows up in the Device Manager/Sound, Video and Game Controllers/ AV/C Tape Device, not as a camera like a regular fiwewire camcorder.
No joy as to the produced .m2t file.
I used MSP8 to export the file to the camera. What happens the first screen shows a preview of the output which came up right with the rendered video, but on the next screen when the program records to the camera, the camera doesn't receieve any data and nothing is recorded.
I tried the CapDVHS program, it sees the camera properly, however, I can't capture or record anything. It acts like it's doing something, even counts frames but the screen on the camera shows no activity.
Womble is very fast creating files, it only took 49 seconds for a 1:50 clip.
If there is anything else I can help you with just let me know.
Thanks for the heads up on the two programs.
I downloaded both an here are the results.
Womble looks like a good program, haven't had much time to play with it.
I used your instructions to get a.m2t file and tryed to output it to the HC-1.
There is no provisions in Explorer that shows the camera and the USB port is only 1.1 and has no streaming capabilities, it's only use is to download still pictures from the memory stick.
The Camera shows up in the Device Manager/Sound, Video and Game Controllers/ AV/C Tape Device, not as a camera like a regular fiwewire camcorder.
No joy as to the produced .m2t file.
I used MSP8 to export the file to the camera. What happens the first screen shows a preview of the output which came up right with the rendered video, but on the next screen when the program records to the camera, the camera doesn't receieve any data and nothing is recorded.
I tried the CapDVHS program, it sees the camera properly, however, I can't capture or record anything. It acts like it's doing something, even counts frames but the screen on the camera shows no activity.
Womble is very fast creating files, it only took 49 seconds for a 1:50 clip.
If there is anything else I can help you with just let me know.
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jchunter
Tyamada,
The next thing that I would suggest trying is to see if CapDVHS can download an Mpeg2 HDV file to the camcorder. It is possible that this program will packetize the mpeg (convert it to m2t) on the fly.
Also another user suggests: "Did you push the record button on the camera via Rec Ctrl? I recall that being necessary when dubbing from camera to camera via firewire. I also recall Kerr setting a DVin on the port but I could be confused."
John
The next thing that I would suggest trying is to see if CapDVHS can download an Mpeg2 HDV file to the camcorder. It is possible that this program will packetize the mpeg (convert it to m2t) on the fly.
Also another user suggests: "Did you push the record button on the camera via Rec Ctrl? I recall that being necessary when dubbing from camera to camera via firewire. I also recall Kerr setting a DVin on the port but I could be confused."
John
jchunter:
I used CapDVHS to try to capture/record from the HC1 with on joy. The software shows frame/time counters moving but there is no activity on the camera.
The HC1 has 3 modes which are selected by pressing the On/Off swith to select the mode, the modes are:
1. Camera, this mode is used to record live video from the lense. Computer will not recognize the device if in this mode.
2. Memory, used to capture still pictures from the lense.
3. Playback/Edit, use to playback tape/memory, no recode function available. This mode is used by PC to communicate with the camera.
Recode funcnction is controlled by software.
So far the only way I can get a High Definition video to write to tape is to render it in MSP8 and export it to DV. You should download the MSP8 beta from Ulead. MSP8 has the capability to do HD Video and is probably better than VS9 with HDV.
If you have any more information I think we should communicate via Private Message, because I think this thread is getting too long and is beyond the scope of VS9.
I used CapDVHS to try to capture/record from the HC1 with on joy. The software shows frame/time counters moving but there is no activity on the camera.
The HC1 has 3 modes which are selected by pressing the On/Off swith to select the mode, the modes are:
1. Camera, this mode is used to record live video from the lense. Computer will not recognize the device if in this mode.
2. Memory, used to capture still pictures from the lense.
3. Playback/Edit, use to playback tape/memory, no recode function available. This mode is used by PC to communicate with the camera.
Recode funcnction is controlled by software.
So far the only way I can get a High Definition video to write to tape is to render it in MSP8 and export it to DV. You should download the MSP8 beta from Ulead. MSP8 has the capability to do HD Video and is probably better than VS9 with HDV.
If you have any more information I think we should communicate via Private Message, because I think this thread is getting too long and is beyond the scope of VS9.
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jchunter
Tyamada,
It is amazing how many casual references there are on the internet to CapDVHS without any references to the detail in the link http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/freecapture/. It is very instructive and absolutely crucial to both capture and writing out the m2t to the HC1. He doesn't say very much about the latter, except to reinforce my original thought that CapDVHS will write m2t files but not mpeg2 format.
BTW, I think that Virtual Dub does not bring much to the party. It stutters badly when playing back my 1440x1080 HDV mpegs. Inability to write mpeg2 files is a showstopper.
I hope that you can make some progress in writing to the HC1 through CapDVHS.
John
It is amazing how many casual references there are on the internet to CapDVHS without any references to the detail in the link http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/freecapture/. It is very instructive and absolutely crucial to both capture and writing out the m2t to the HC1. He doesn't say very much about the latter, except to reinforce my original thought that CapDVHS will write m2t files but not mpeg2 format.
BTW, I think that Virtual Dub does not bring much to the party. It stutters badly when playing back my 1440x1080 HDV mpegs. Inability to write mpeg2 files is a showstopper.
I hope that you can make some progress in writing to the HC1 through CapDVHS.
John
jchunter:
I sent lthwaits an e-mail asking him how he captured video back to the HC1 and got this reply "Yeah, I've never been able to get CapDVHS to be consistent. I mean, it will write out an M2T to the tape, but it has dropouts every 30 seconds or so. Unacceptable. No matter what I've tried, I can't get rid of those dropouts. I may end up writing something just to do that task." He didn't elaborat on the sequence he tried to get video back to the camera.
I will keep trying to write back to the HC1, will keep you posted.
Thanks Terry
I sent lthwaits an e-mail asking him how he captured video back to the HC1 and got this reply "Yeah, I've never been able to get CapDVHS to be consistent. I mean, it will write out an M2T to the tape, but it has dropouts every 30 seconds or so. Unacceptable. No matter what I've tried, I can't get rid of those dropouts. I may end up writing something just to do that task." He didn't elaborat on the sequence he tried to get video back to the camera.
I will keep trying to write back to the HC1, will keep you posted.
Thanks Terry
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THoff
Have you tried VirtualDub-MPEG2? It is a modification of the regular VirtualDub with MPEG2 support.jchunter wrote:BTW, I think that Virtual Dub does not bring much to the party. It stutters badly when playing back my 1440x1080 HDV mpegs. Inability to write mpeg2 files is a showstopper.
I haven't tried VirtualDub at all. I discovered I my DVICO HD Capture card has the capability to capture and edit Hi Definition video from tuner or camera. It captures video in .ts (program stream format), I captured video from my HC1 and edited it. The DVICO software has the option to write back to a DVHS device, but when I load the video to write it to the camera the program locks up.
I am still looking for a program other than CapDVHS and MSP8 to write HDVideo back to tape.
I wish Ulead would give us the capability in VS9 to write HDVideo back to tape.
I am still looking for a program other than CapDVHS and MSP8 to write HDVideo back to tape.
I wish Ulead would give us the capability in VS9 to write HDVideo back to tape.
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jchunter
Torsten,
Yes, I downloaded the latest and greatest Virtual Dub, Build 23769 9/16/05. it is the Mpeg 2 version. It plays my HDV clips poorly. The sound stutters, the video stalls. I even tried increasing the size of its buffer to max but it did no good.
Womble is smoother at HD playback and has a fair amount of editing capability. Womble is the only program I have found that will convert Mpeg2 HDV to m2t transport stream.
The VLC Media player http://www.versiontracker.com/windows/ is VERY smooth with HDV and will play m2t and m2p both.
Terry,
I am amazed that a file such as .m2t that is packetized - wrapped in error detection and correction bits - should have any drop outs at all. Packetizing is, after all, designed to greatly increase the probability that all bits in the file will arrive at their destination intact. Moreover, 6 feet of firewire cable is VERY reliable as it stands...
BTW, here are two forums that talk about the Sony HD1
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/forumd ... une=&f=138
John
Yes, I downloaded the latest and greatest Virtual Dub, Build 23769 9/16/05. it is the Mpeg 2 version. It plays my HDV clips poorly. The sound stutters, the video stalls. I even tried increasing the size of its buffer to max but it did no good.
Womble is smoother at HD playback and has a fair amount of editing capability. Womble is the only program I have found that will convert Mpeg2 HDV to m2t transport stream.
The VLC Media player http://www.versiontracker.com/windows/ is VERY smooth with HDV and will play m2t and m2p both.
Terry,
I am amazed that a file such as .m2t that is packetized - wrapped in error detection and correction bits - should have any drop outs at all. Packetizing is, after all, designed to greatly increase the probability that all bits in the file will arrive at their destination intact. Moreover, 6 feet of firewire cable is VERY reliable as it stands...
BTW, here are two forums that talk about the Sony HD1
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/forumd ... une=&f=138
John