Have you compared the HDV codec and the MPEG4 codec yet in terms of encoding performance and quality?
For playback on a PC (likely to be the only option for awhile until Archos or someone adds HD support to their devices), MPEG4 would seem to be a better choice than the MPEG2-based HDV codec.
High Definition Video
Moderator: Ken Berry
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jchunter
Torsten,
The MPEG-4 download has only three choices, which are all fairly low quality, all frame based: (1) Mobil Phone: 175x144, 15 fps, (2) PDA/PMP: 320x240 15 fps, and (3) DVD Quality: 720x480 30fps, VBR= 2000kbps.
The WMV codecs in the HDV plugin are (1) 1280x 720 30 fps and (2) 1440x1080, 30 fps, VBR = 25Mbps. Both are Frame Based.
My quick visual check saw no difference between Mpeg2 HDV and WMV (they both looked terrific). I will try to check with the res chart.
John
The MPEG-4 download has only three choices, which are all fairly low quality, all frame based: (1) Mobil Phone: 175x144, 15 fps, (2) PDA/PMP: 320x240 15 fps, and (3) DVD Quality: 720x480 30fps, VBR= 2000kbps.
The WMV codecs in the HDV plugin are (1) 1280x 720 30 fps and (2) 1440x1080, 30 fps, VBR = 25Mbps. Both are Frame Based.
My quick visual check saw no difference between Mpeg2 HDV and WMV (they both looked terrific). I will try to check with the res chart.
John
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THoff
Just got my Sony HDR-HC1, nice camera. Sorry to say that VS-9 will not export timeline or video clips to tape. Ulead has a tutorial on their website that describes the procedure to capture and produce High Definition Video. It doesn't say anything about saving project to tape, very sad.
By the way I have a Hauppauge PVR-250 installed on one of my computers and I had the Plugin for the card installed. The HDV plugin does not co-exist with the Hauppauge plugin, you have to install the plugin you want to use every time.
I had to use MS Pro 8 Beta to export video to tape. The video was very choppy when I previewed the clip but it exported fine.
I'm going to get MSP 8 when it is realesed.
Hope they fix VS9 soon.
By the way I have a Hauppauge PVR-250 installed on one of my computers and I had the Plugin for the card installed. The HDV plugin does not co-exist with the Hauppauge plugin, you have to install the plugin you want to use every time.
I had to use MS Pro 8 Beta to export video to tape. The video was very choppy when I previewed the clip but it exported fine.
I'm going to get MSP 8 when it is realesed.
Hope they fix VS9 soon.
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jchunter
I'm green with envy. How do you like the HC1?
Did you try to capture from the HC1 in Video Studio9?
I did not see any visible sign of an HDV Export facility but try the following:
With Video Studio 9, make an Mpeg2 HD video file of your edited project. Then select that video file into the Library and leave it highlighted. Then select Share/Export/DV Camcorder with your HC1 connected through the firewire connection. Maybe this will work. Let us know what happens.
John
Did you try to capture from the HC1 in Video Studio9?
I did not see any visible sign of an HDV Export facility but try the following:
With Video Studio 9, make an Mpeg2 HD video file of your edited project. Then select that video file into the Library and leave it highlighted. Then select Share/Export/DV Camcorder with your HC1 connected through the firewire connection. Maybe this will work. Let us know what happens.
John
I am just getting to know all the controls, there is a lot to learn about the camera. I really like the camera, for a good review check this link out http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/So ... Review.htm
I captured clips in VS9 and MSP8, am only able to output to the camera in MSP8, the file has to be converted to .mt2 (Transport Stream) format before it can be exported to tape.
jchunter:
What you suggested I have tried already, VS9 just reports the camera is not turned on or the the driver is not ready.
It takes MSP8 around 16 minutes to render 1.5 minutes of HD video for output to a tape. Looks like I am going to upgrade my computer to a faster duel core processor and faster hard drives.
I captured clips in VS9 and MSP8, am only able to output to the camera in MSP8, the file has to be converted to .mt2 (Transport Stream) format before it can be exported to tape.
jchunter:
What you suggested I have tried already, VS9 just reports the camera is not turned on or the the driver is not ready.
It takes MSP8 around 16 minutes to render 1.5 minutes of HD video for output to a tape. Looks like I am going to upgrade my computer to a faster duel core processor and faster hard drives.
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jchunter
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jchunter
Tyamada,
I read that review of the HC1 and was very impressed. I just saw the HC1 at Fry's Electronics - just slightly smaller than my GS400.
But I'm confused about the HD formats. I had read that the HC1 records .mt2 on its mini DV-Tape. When Video Studio captures it, is it still .mt2 or has it been converted to another format? If mt2, why should it require a lot of processing to produce an output file in the same format?
What format did you capture to in Video Studio? .mt2?, Mpeg2 HD?, AVI?
John
I read that review of the HC1 and was very impressed. I just saw the HC1 at Fry's Electronics - just slightly smaller than my GS400.
But I'm confused about the HD formats. I had read that the HC1 records .mt2 on its mini DV-Tape. When Video Studio captures it, is it still .mt2 or has it been converted to another format? If mt2, why should it require a lot of processing to produce an output file in the same format?
What format did you capture to in Video Studio? .mt2?, Mpeg2 HD?, AVI?
John
jchunter:
VS9 captured the video as .mpg (MPEG2 HD) nowhere does it show up as .mt2 file in VS9.
MSP8 captured the same file as .mpeg (MPEG2 HD). After the capture I had to place it on the timeline and let it build the proxy file before it could be edited and saved as a .mt2 file, once the file was saved it had to be exported to tape, process took about 30 min for a 1.5 minute clip.
The Camcorder does record the image as some sort of mpeg file but when it is caputred it is converted to mpeg (MPEG2 HD) and no options are available to change the capture format. That is the reason for the file conversion. To bad you can't just copy the files from the tape to the computer instead of having to capture the frames again.
VS9 captured the video as .mpg (MPEG2 HD) nowhere does it show up as .mt2 file in VS9.
MSP8 captured the same file as .mpeg (MPEG2 HD). After the capture I had to place it on the timeline and let it build the proxy file before it could be edited and saved as a .mt2 file, once the file was saved it had to be exported to tape, process took about 30 min for a 1.5 minute clip.
The Camcorder does record the image as some sort of mpeg file but when it is caputred it is converted to mpeg (MPEG2 HD) and no options are available to change the capture format. That is the reason for the file conversion. To bad you can't just copy the files from the tape to the computer instead of having to capture the frames again.
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jchunter
Progress Report
I was able to locate a high definition video file in transport format (.m2t). There are several good ones at http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/jvcproh ... 5test5.php. The m2t file is constructed by sequentially breaking up an mpeg2 file into packets, adding a wrapper and some error detection and correction bits in each packet that can assure reliable transport from one place to another.
Video Studio can’t open or import this file although we have an existence proof (Tyamada was able to capture from the HC1) that the HDV capture plugin has code to strip the transport packets and reconstruct the mpeg2 file directly from the firewire connection to the camcorder.
IMO, Video Studio should add a user interface to import m2t files directly in the capture module. The process would be able to use all the existing depacketizing code the HDV plugin because it is simply pulling the bits from a file instead of the firewire stream. This would make it easier for users to debug their HDV procedures.
I downloaded a free Media player (VLC) that plays the high definition m2t transport file beautifully but can’t store the de-packetized Mpeg2 HDVfile. http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/win/27193
Edit: I also downloaded a video converter HDTVtoMPEG2 that converts any transport stream to mpeg2… Version 1.11 Beta3 works and can be downloaded from http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=HDTVtoMPEG2
In any case, I have enough evidence to suggest that converting from .m2t to mpg2 is a fairly quick and simple process. This also suggests that the reverse process, packetizing an mpeg2 file is simple and straightforward, and there is no fundamental reason why Media Studio Pro should require 16 minutes to packetize a 1.5 minute video file (unless the properties don’t match, causing rendering delays)…
What’s next: I want to find an m2t to mpeg2 converter to be certain that VS9 will be able to edit a converted file. I also want to find an mpeg2 to m2t converter so that Video Studio users will have the tools to display their edited HDV through the camcorder to the HDTV screen as well as to archive edited HDVideos on MiniDV tapes.
John
I was able to locate a high definition video file in transport format (.m2t). There are several good ones at http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/jvcproh ... 5test5.php. The m2t file is constructed by sequentially breaking up an mpeg2 file into packets, adding a wrapper and some error detection and correction bits in each packet that can assure reliable transport from one place to another.
Video Studio can’t open or import this file although we have an existence proof (Tyamada was able to capture from the HC1) that the HDV capture plugin has code to strip the transport packets and reconstruct the mpeg2 file directly from the firewire connection to the camcorder.
IMO, Video Studio should add a user interface to import m2t files directly in the capture module. The process would be able to use all the existing depacketizing code the HDV plugin because it is simply pulling the bits from a file instead of the firewire stream. This would make it easier for users to debug their HDV procedures.
I downloaded a free Media player (VLC) that plays the high definition m2t transport file beautifully but can’t store the de-packetized Mpeg2 HDVfile. http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/win/27193
Edit: I also downloaded a video converter HDTVtoMPEG2 that converts any transport stream to mpeg2… Version 1.11 Beta3 works and can be downloaded from http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=HDTVtoMPEG2
In any case, I have enough evidence to suggest that converting from .m2t to mpg2 is a fairly quick and simple process. This also suggests that the reverse process, packetizing an mpeg2 file is simple and straightforward, and there is no fundamental reason why Media Studio Pro should require 16 minutes to packetize a 1.5 minute video file (unless the properties don’t match, causing rendering delays)…
What’s next: I want to find an m2t to mpeg2 converter to be certain that VS9 will be able to edit a converted file. I also want to find an mpeg2 to m2t converter so that Video Studio users will have the tools to display their edited HDV through the camcorder to the HDTV screen as well as to archive edited HDVideos on MiniDV tapes.
John
Last edited by jchunter on Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jchunter
Tyamada,
Please try to edit your captured mpeg2 HDV file using Video Studio 9. I was able to edit directly with no problems when I dragged the mpeg file into the timeline and let it set Project Properties to match. Try using the Multi-Trim Video control, the scissors, and the Save Trimmed Video menu item to perform drastic edits in order to see how stable Video Studio is when editing HD. Observe the quality level of the playback.
If your computer is "performance challanged," you may have difficulty doing some of these things but it would be nice to know how you make out.
Please also report your computer specs.
John
Please try to edit your captured mpeg2 HDV file using Video Studio 9. I was able to edit directly with no problems when I dragged the mpeg file into the timeline and let it set Project Properties to match. Try using the Multi-Trim Video control, the scissors, and the Save Trimmed Video menu item to perform drastic edits in order to see how stable Video Studio is when editing HD. Observe the quality level of the playback.
If your computer is "performance challanged," you may have difficulty doing some of these things but it would be nice to know how you make out.
Please also report your computer specs.
John
jchunter:
I have already edited it and output it to a .mpg. When previewing the file on the timeline the video is choppy. Once the file is rendered it plays fine, I have tried to convert the file to a HD WMV format but got discouraged by the speed, it does about 3 frames ever 20 seconds and then gets another 3 frames, it was going to take too long to make the WMV so I aborted it.
As far as I can tell VS9 is stable doing the edits and rendering, just a little slow, will report if I encounter any problems.
As far as I am concerned I will be using MSP8 when it is realeased, I don't want to waste my time doing HD Video without the capability of creating a video tape, right now VS9 doesn't have that function.
I have already edited it and output it to a .mpg. When previewing the file on the timeline the video is choppy. Once the file is rendered it plays fine, I have tried to convert the file to a HD WMV format but got discouraged by the speed, it does about 3 frames ever 20 seconds and then gets another 3 frames, it was going to take too long to make the WMV so I aborted it.
As far as I can tell VS9 is stable doing the edits and rendering, just a little slow, will report if I encounter any problems.
As far as I am concerned I will be using MSP8 when it is realeased, I don't want to waste my time doing HD Video without the capability of creating a video tape, right now VS9 doesn't have that function.
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jchunter
HD what's the point?
Since there is NO DVD on the market that will playback HD, what is the point of recording in HD? Perhaps if you are rendering back to HD TAPE in the camcorder.
Phenom X4 965 3.4Ghz, 8gig DDR3, 120GB SSD, 1TB HD, 500GB, Bluray & DVD Burners, ATI HD5550, Epson scanner, Canon 9000Pro, Sharp AL1551CS laser printer, Sony TRV740 8mm digital, Canon HV20 and Sony SLTA65VK, Win7 HP 64bit
Gary Russell
TNUSA
Gary Russell
TNUSA
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jchunter
Gary,
To summarize what has become a rather long thread,
(1) IMO, Sony has created a “tipping point” in the market by releasing a fully functional high definition camcorder in a size and price range (currently $1695) of higher end DV camcorders.
(2) Anyone contemplating a new camcorder now has to consider that an HD version will permanently capture the moment (a vacation trip, a growing child) in high definition and even if he could only view downconverted DV for a few years, ultimately, all the HD tools will be available for him to reprocess his original HDV tapes and view them in full high definition.
(3) In an HD-DVD-less world, we first show our high definition video tapes using the HD camcorder to drive the HDTV. Next, hard disks can easily handle the 25Mbps bitrate requirements and are economically large enough (200 – 500 GB) to hold currently interesting videos in HD DVR products. MiniDV tapes will do for archiving both raw and edited videos. High speed internet download and HDTV broadcasts can distribute high definition commercial movies.
(4) My recent efforts have been aimed at assessing Video Studio’s capacity to capture, edit, and export high definition videos. So far, the results look very promising.
(5) When I travel to Machu Picchu, I want to tape it in HDV - not DV and not analog…
John
To summarize what has become a rather long thread,
(1) IMO, Sony has created a “tipping point” in the market by releasing a fully functional high definition camcorder in a size and price range (currently $1695) of higher end DV camcorders.
(2) Anyone contemplating a new camcorder now has to consider that an HD version will permanently capture the moment (a vacation trip, a growing child) in high definition and even if he could only view downconverted DV for a few years, ultimately, all the HD tools will be available for him to reprocess his original HDV tapes and view them in full high definition.
(3) In an HD-DVD-less world, we first show our high definition video tapes using the HD camcorder to drive the HDTV. Next, hard disks can easily handle the 25Mbps bitrate requirements and are economically large enough (200 – 500 GB) to hold currently interesting videos in HD DVR products. MiniDV tapes will do for archiving both raw and edited videos. High speed internet download and HDTV broadcasts can distribute high definition commercial movies.
(4) My recent efforts have been aimed at assessing Video Studio’s capacity to capture, edit, and export high definition videos. So far, the results look very promising.
(5) When I travel to Machu Picchu, I want to tape it in HDV - not DV and not analog…
John