Huge flaw (maybe bug) with proxy

[lata]

Hi
Yes we can render to 99999 using same as clip and same as project settings
But we cannot render from any manually created templates, we cannot manually set the project properties to 99999
Nor can we set Motion Profile Manager unless we use the Add option, then we cannot edit the Profile as it reverts to a lower rate.
If we were to ask Corel if they support 100MB I think the answer will be NO the max is 65Mb, hopefully that will change for the next version.

The only time I have used the acceleration options is to run tests and I do not find that much difference in render times, of course we have to be sure Smart Render does not play a part, for each render I do re-load the project, although may be best to deselect smart render for these speed tests.
I have also in the past checked the pc performance resource manager with little change to CPU and GPU
Generally the CPU is fully loaded with the GPU doing little.
If the acceleration options do work they have little effect, normally I have them deselected.

As for 100Mb data rates I have no problems in rendering whether accelerations are selected or not, results always use 100MB, well 99998Kbps

[tletter]

Generally the CPU is fully loaded with the GPU doing little.

Unfortunately this is not my experience as VS X10 doesn't come close to fully utilizing the CPU and doesn't touch the GPU whilst rendering (see image below) while VS2018 is simply too unstable to use for rendering large 4K videos.

Sadly Corel has prioritized featuritis over performance and stability.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

[RickMen]

Hi Lata,

Post updated
I have now tested with all accelerations selected and render to 99999kbps, well actually its 99998kbps.
So far I have not been able to create one using the lower rate of 65 ish Mb
Could it be that I use AMD and you Intel.

As for 100Mb data rates I have no problems in rendering whether accelerations are selected or not, results always use 100MB, well 99998Kbps

I'm not familiar with the AMD Vs Intel angle regarding hardware acceleration. Could you elaborate or point me to the relevant discussion thread?

[RickMen]

Raw clip is 100mbps, after rendering with...

With Enable Decoder ON and Encoder OFF = 90mbps
With Enable Decoder OFF and Encoder ON = 59mbps
With Enable Decoder ON and Encoder ON = 62mbps (this was my default setting)

So it appears that the Enable Encoder option under File Creation is causing the issue, when its OFF I can get 90 mbps.

It would appear that this issue still has not been addressed in VS2022. I still need to implement the above work-around to get my rendered clip to closely match the mbps of the raw clip. I haven't kept track of the discussion on this topic but it seems that VS tops out at 65mbps when Encoding is switch on.

[lata]

Hi
I think some things have changed / improved when working with 100Mb video.
I had to create a short test clip.

I noticed that the show messages does activate to set the project properties to 100Mb,
When I render with acceleration deselected the properties are identical to the original at 100000kbps, confirmed by Media Info.
Rendering using the acceleration options selected had the same effect. ODD ( Hmmm, I now believe that was a cause of using Smart Render)
As I was concerned that my tests were being affected by the use of Smart Render so I deselect that, rendering took a little longer same results.
Now I re-booted the program just to make sure and this time with Acceleration but no Smart Render 105856 kbps were used, Media Info shows 106Mb.

I was able to use Movie Profile Manager to create my own template using 100Mb
I also used the Share options Add to create a 100Mb profile there as there were no profiles set to use 100mb

I believe my tests were being influenced by Smart Render so I deselected that.
Rendering without Acceleration produced 100Mb with Acceleration produced 106Mb

I do not have any other test files at 100Mb other than created by Video Studio, so are you able to share a sample?

[RickMen]

I noticed that the show messages does activate to set the project properties to 100Mb,

That also occurred with VS2018

Rendering using the acceleration options selected had the same effect.

My testing of file (Clip bit rate = 100Mbs)
Encoder Off - Smart Render On = 94Mbs
Encoder On - Smart Render On = 58Mbs
Encoder On - Smart Render Off = 63Mbs
Encoder Off - Smart Render Off = 94Mbs

The basic issue still remains, I either sacrifice rendering speed or picture quality. I can't have both.

I was able to use Movie Profile Manager to create my own template using 100Mb

This is an improvement over VS2018, with VS2018 I could only select up to 65Mbps

I also used the Share options Add to create a 100Mb profile there as there were no profiles set to use 100mb

This is also an improvement over VS2018.

so are you able to share a sample?

How do I do that?

[lata]

To share a sample you would have to upload to a sharing site, One Drive, Google Drive, DropBox etc then provide a download link
100Mb video will be quite large so something that the share sites will accept.

I do not have any 100Mb recordings so having an actual recording I thought would be better than rendering my own.

By the way
A 1 minute 4096 x 2160, 50 fps,
H.264 High Profile Video: 100000 Kbps
Is approx. 650Mb
I would need a much larger card in my camera to record at that rate.

[RickMen]

I just did some further testing. In my past, for all my testing I had used "Same as Project Settings" via the message when adding the 1st clip (because I couldn't create a 100 mbps profile, it toped out at 65mbps). This time I created a new custom profile (using Movie Profile Manager) that matches the profile of the raw clip. So now on the SHARE page instead of selecting "Same as Project Setting" I selected the new custom profile. With Hardware encoder off it took the same time and same output as previously testing (that was expected) BUT with hardware encoder ON it now was much faster AND the file bit rate remained around the same as the raw clip.

Conclusion to be drawn - I need to use the custom profile (that matches the raw clip) instead of "Same as Project Settings (which also happens to match the raw clip). Go figure!

[RickMen]

I just did some further testing. In my past, for all my testing I had used "Same as Project Settings" via the message when adding the 1st clip (because I couldn't create a 100 mbps profile, it toped out at 65mbps). This time I created a new custom profile (using Movie Profile Manager) that matches the profile of the raw clip. So now on the SHARE page instead of selecting "Same as Project Setting" I selected the new custom profile. With Hardware encoder off it took the same time and same output as previously testing (that was expected) BUT with hardware encoder ON it now was much faster AND the file bit rate remained around the same as the raw clip.

Conclusion to be drawn - I need to use the custom profile (that matches the raw clip) instead of "Same as Project Settings (which also happens to match the raw clip). Go figure!

I can't replicate this now, it's gone back to the 65Mbps.

I give up, VS too buggy to try to understand.

[RickMen]

and now when I try to edit the personal profile either by Movie Profile Manager or the SHARE screen it won't let me. Too many bugs (again).

[RickMen]

and now when I try to edit the personal profile either by Movie Profile Manager or the SHARE screen it won't let me. Too many bugs (again).

Reboot this this.

As for the (lack of) replication I'm starting to doubt myself. Did I ready do it in the first place?

[lata]

Hi
The sample you provided could be shared with others if you provide the link here
The properties of the sample were:-
4 bits, 3840 x 2160, 25 fps ( I expected 50P)
Frame-based
H.264 High Profile Video: 99999 Kbps (Media Info shows 100Mb)
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
LPCM Audio: 768 Kbps

I found it unusual to see a frame rate of 25fps seems a little low to say we are looking at quality using 4K 100Mb, 25fps seems out of place.
1 / I imported the sample to the timelines and OK to show messages to match project properties
2 / Share – Same as First Clip, Unfortunately 44Mb, similar to the rates you are seeing.
I then increased the frame rate to 50fps and now I see 100004 kbps (100Mb)
If you notice my previous tests I have always used 50fps
I doubt very much that a 25fps video would require a data rate of 100Mb

While ever I use 25fps I cannot produce 100MB

[Ken Berry]

Trevor -- how did RickMen provide the sample to you?

[Ken Berry]

Well that was interesting. RickMen -- Trevor kindly provided me with the link to your sample. I hope you don't mind, but it allows us to experiment and perhaps produce other results.

Your video showed exactly the same Properties he listed above. On inserting the clip in my VS 2022 timeline, I got the usual question about matching Project Properties, which I OK'd. I didn't do any editing, just went straight to Share where I proposed to do a number of sequential experiments.

The first was to render Same As Project Settings, and to leave both SmartRender and Hardware Acceleration ticked. Rendering was thus quite quick. It took just over 20 seconds to render your 7 second video clip. You might imagine my surprise, though, when the new file had mostly the same properties as both the original and Project Settings, However, the bitrate was drastically different, but in the opposite direction to what Trevor got. In this case it showed as 204606 kbps i.e. double the amount you were after. Playback of the new video was absolutely smooth, with the same chatty audio in the background sounding exactly the same as the original. The quality of the new video was no better than the original, though was certainly as good.

I next Rendered with Hardware Acceleration turned off though leaving Smart Render enabled. Rendering appeared to be equally as quick as the earlier time (around 20 seconds). This time the properties remained the same, yet the bitrate showed as 99998 kbps. Again, it played smoothly and quality seemed the same as the original.

I then rendered with SmartRender disabled but Hardware Acceleration enabled. Rendering time remained at about 20 seconds. This time the bitrate went back to 204606 kbps. Quality remained unchanged.

Finally I rendered with both SmartRender and Acceleration disabled. Rendering time remained the same as before. This time, bitrate had reverted to 99998 kbps.

I thought it might also be useful to try a final experiment, setting Share to Custom and manually setting the properties to the same as the original i.e with bitrate of 100000 kbps. Both SmartRender and Acceleration were left enabled. Rendering was marginally faster at 18 seconds. Despite setting the bitrate at 100000 kbps, the new clip again showed 204666 kbps and overall size of 188 MB which is roughly double the size of the original.

In other words, my results are quite different to Trevor's. The frame speed of 25 fps didn't appear to degrade anything, and the minimum bitrate in all of these experiments were either 99998 kbps or just over double that. Hardware acceleration seemed to be option which favoured a much better bitrate reading. But not unexpectedly, that higher bitrate resulted in the new video being around twice the size of the original (188 MB vs. 93 MB for the original in both cases where Acceleration was used). Where Acceleration was not used, 86.1 MB was the same size in both i.e. a minor reduction in size from the original. As already noted, but worth repeating, quality remained visually the same regardless of what options were chosen. Rendering time also remained the same (around 20 seconds for a 7 second video) whether or not Smart Render or Acceleration or both were enabled or disabled. All of the above property readings initially came from VideoStudio itself, though were confirmed in MediaInfo.

It's virtually impossible, however, to account for these different results between the three of us, though clearly the fact that our computers have different architecture must account for a large part of it. As you will see from my system specs under my avatar, I have opted for an all AMD machine, in both graphics and motherboard, and thus have selected AMD for hardware acceleration...

[RickMen]

Hi
The sample you provided could be shared with others if you provide the link here
The properties of the sample were:-
4 bits, 3840 x 2160, 25 fps ( I expected 50P)
Frame-based
H.264 High Profile Video: 99999 Kbps (Media Info shows 100Mb)
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
LPCM Audio: 768 Kbps

I found it unusual to see a frame rate of 25fps seems a little low to say we are looking at quality using 4K 100Mb, 25fps seems out of place.
1 / I imported the sample to the timelines and OK to show messages to match project properties
2 / Share – Same as First Clip, Unfortunately 44Mb, similar to the rates you are seeing.
I then increased the frame rate to 50fps and now I see 100004 kbps (100Mb)
If you notice my previous tests I have always used 50fps
I doubt very much that a 25fps video would require a data rate of 100Mb

While ever I use 25fps I cannot produce 100MB

For my camcorder (Sony AX53) the 4K setting is set at 25fps, I don't have a 50fps option at 4K. At 4K setting recording rate is 100Mbps. There is a 50fps but that's for HD 'slow mo' at 1920x1020.




When using 25fps I can produce 100MB but only when hardware encode acceleration is OFF