flicker in late-2018 rendered projects

[Davidk]

I've had a personal project to create a holiday DVD, using video and still imagery taken 6 years ago. And in the result, I've found an irritating blink in the rendered image in the iso file. Because of the time I took to do this project, the 7 rendered, mpg components of the disk were created in both X10, and 2018. The latter, progressively thru 2018, and as a result there are 2018 rendered clips with dates of Jun18, and Feb19.

the details
I noted the blink initially in iso file of the whole DVd, and then in the main project file that links a number of places together, rendered yesterday using 2018 at 21.4.0.165 status, and that blink shows on both VLC, media player, and VS2018 (simply import the mpg file and play).

I tracked the blink down - basically, by playing the various components to establish which ones had the blink, and which ones didn't. And it seems like the latest version of 2018 (SP4, 21.4.0.165) may be creating the blink in rendered files. The blink certainly is not there in the vsp when played, as a vsp.

I'm seeking some info on whether this blink in the rendered video from 2018 is re-producible by others, and what the fix (remove the blink) might be. I've uploaded 3 clips illustrating the analysis that led to late-version 2018 as the possible culprit. The details are:
- one rendered clip of Weipa, created in x10, and rendered in x10 as late as yesterday (18feb19) does not have the blink
- one rendered clip of the Greenhill fort, Thursday island, created in 2018 at SP2 state (based on date of file - SP3 was not issued until july 2018) does not have the blink
- one rendered clip of Cooktown created and rendered in 2018 at sp4 status on 18 feb 19 does have the blink.
The Onedrive link is where all 3 are located
https://onedrive.live.com/?id=F258AB298 ... 2984C226A1

All the video clips and still images in the project files that led to these mpg results were taken on the same cameras; the camcorder was a JVC GZ-MS100 unit, and the still camera was a Pentax K100D.

[Davidk]

More info . .
In the Cooktown clip, the blink (the image jitters like you blinked your eye when looking at it) occurs at 9 sec, several times between then, and at 39 sec. I stopped counting then. It's a lot more noticeable in other larger clips.

I thought I may be able to work around this by just using X10 and x10 project files as the render source. So I opened the cooktown vsp in 2018, played and verified that the blink was not there, and then saved the whole vsp as an x10 project file, which it did without error. But when I opened that saved x10 project file in X10, it crashed X10 immediately.

This separate problem of the ability of the new VS UI - 2018 and 2019 - to crash a 'saved as' vsp when opened in the saved as version (eg, opening a saved as x10 vsp in X10) has been raised in other forums and needs to be positively addressed.

Fix for the blink - suggestions, anyone? After investing so much work in the project files, I would hate to have to re-do it all. But if that is the only option - 2018 in it's updated sp4 state would seem to be unusable for rendering files.

[gewb]

Hi Dave

Reproduced here in several viewers. Looks like VS had trouble locking in the correct aspect ratio when a clip began.

[Davidk]

Hi gewb,
Thanks for that. An aspect ratio issue was something I had not thought of, and whilst it does seem to occur at a change of scene, not at all changes of scene.
With that as a cue, I looked at the Cooktown vsp again, and noticed that the blink was mostly occurring when I had a transition in place, as in the times I cited previously, between 1 clip or picture, and another. So, saved a revised vsp with no transitions, and re-rendered. But the blink was still there. I also tried a render with hardware accel changed in 2018, but that made no difference either.

Frustrated, I tried a render of the same Cooktown vsp with 2019, and there was no change - still a blink in the rendered file.

I've packaged the cooktown project and uploaded the package folder to Onedrive, same place as before, here
https://onedrive.live.com/?id=F258AB298 ... 2984C226A1

At least, I'm not seeing things, and we have isolated it a bit. Altho what can be done about it is . . .?

[weaver]

Hi David


I did some tests with the cooktown vsp.

The problem is from my point of view, that there is no video in the beginning what sets the frame and pixel size. Additionally also your static pictures have different sizes and resolutions.

My suggestion would be to create some standard videofile for your videos in corresponding format. It can be a anything, just must have the proper format and must be MPG, etc.
This can be a very short video and for every format you plan to make in the future you should have such start sequence. ( like the big movie companies - MGM presents - )
I always start with such introductory clip, what sets the standard for the remaining part of the video. (I have MPEG 4:3,16:9, HD 1440x1080 and 1920x1080). This is quite important because those videos contain also different other settings - like amorph pixels etc) what a standard JPEG picture does not have. That means in your video the system does not know until the first video clip appears what is the correct format. That is the reason that the picture jumps.

Try it and you will see that it works.

Regards

Eugen

[asik1]

David I watched only your troubled video in WMP and indeed looks as ratio issue with the stills.
I would correct this by placing them as overlays "fit to hight" and continue from there.

[lata]

Hi David
There does seem to be a problem with aspect ratios as Asik and gewb

The images are not 16:9 so you have added a Video Pan & Zoom to the images which fits them to screen and then zooms in a little further.
Added a crossfade transition also seems to be affecting this

I have replaced the Video Pan and Zoom with the normal pan and zoom and that seems to have removed the Flicker, however I am having problems doing that using 2019 as the zoom using 2019 does not seem to work with the keyframes revert to the same settings, another 2019 problem.
I do not have 2018 installed at the moment.

I then used Customise motion to set the zoom and that worked ok

Attached is the updated project file with a preview range set
You can try rendering this to same as project settings
I’ll look further into this but feel it is the Video Pan and Zoom used on images rather than the standard Pan & Zoom that is at fault.
Now I notice a slight pause over the first transition, that may be a problem with 2019, (gaping) as I say at the moment I do not have 2018 installed
Ok saved the new project for X9 and that rendered ok

Cooktown_vs2019 - Copy.VSP.txt

rename the attached by removing the .TXT

(838 KiB) Downloaded 131 times

Oh i also increased the line spacing a little on the text

[lata]

There are many other incidents of the “Flicker” throughout the project all associated with Video Pan and Zoom being applied to an image.
As I say I cannot check using 2018 or X10
I did several short renders using X9 (that’s X9 not 2019) with no apparent problems
There were also some clips requiring the attention of Mercalli

[weaver]

Hi Trevor,

The main problem is that the VS is a video editor not a Power Point, that means the content must have some kind of video standard. In Davids video (Cooktown) there is for several minutes nothing what has some video properties. I reedited some parts of this stream added a simple video sequence to the beginning and everything was OK on VS2018).

[lata]

what happens when we make a slide show containing images only, no video, never had this issue.
I can confirm that X9 renders ok without changing anything.

weaver can you attach the modified project vsp

[weaver]

what happens when we make a slide show containing images only, no video, never had this issue.
I can confirm that X9 renders ok without changing anything.

weaver can you attach the modified project vsp

There is a slide show option for slides....

Unfortunately I deleted everything but if there is a need I can download again David's files and reedit his video.

[Davidk]

Hi guys,
Many thanks for the helpful suggestions and the effort you made, it's really appreciated. I'll get to experimenting ASAP; it's my 'Tutor video studio' class day today and it will be later tonite before I can get to that; report on progress to come. But 1st, some comments.
- intro.
I do have a 10sec mpg intro, and usually use that for the finished disk (comes before the menu) - the clips you have seen are just part of the disk composition: elements of the story, not the whole one. For a component clip, my usual approach is to scene-set: where are we (a map or picture image in a frame), short background (colour object background), with text over both of these. That's in the cooktown vsp, but also, for example, in the green hill fort clip which has no blink in it.

What I think you are saying is that with the current config of 2018 (see VS version para below, and by inference with 2019), I'll have to do something different with an mpg clip in the 1st TL position of any vsp to 'set' properties for later render. That's new - never had that before. And other things like change the P&Z filter. So, thinking to do.

- Video Pan and Zoom.
This is the one that's in the Fx filter list - not the one on the TL tool bar. The one I've used - forever it seems - and never had a problem with it, let alone 'blink'. When the 2018 P&Z tool bar item came out in the 2018 initial release, there were so many bug reports on use that I just kept using the one that had previously worked. If you look in the cooktown vsp, that filter is used exclusively with jpg images (to provide an element of movement as well as focus on an item in it), and is configured usually to start at either 100 or 101%, in the start keyframe positioned to get the whole frame, (I say that because on default opening, it's always at 112% just off-centre to the right, showing a thin black vertical bar in the pane at 100%) and then zooming with pan to either 130 or 146 in the last key frame.

VS version
I use the same technique in the projects/clips for Green hill fort (2018, Jun 18) and Weipa (X10, feb19) that don't have blink or flicker, and apart from finding the cause of the blink, a major point is that it's introduction happened with either SP3 or SP4 of 2018; did not happen with 2018 before SP3, or in the latest config of X10. And whatever it is, is continued into 2019.

Clarifying info.
I mentioned the blink in my 1st post on this topic. That came from reviewing the .iso file created for the whole disk project, and the blink seems to be happening only in certain rendered components (as standard practice, render a project to mpg before including it in a disk composition) and the disk create iso config includes "don't render compliant files", so what I see in the iso file is what's in the component parts of it. And thus the effort to isolate which component clips had blink, led to the VS version which created them (you'll notice a practice I have of including the version in the file title, which removes confusion for cases like this).

[weaver]

Hi David

Yesterday the first flicker was on the two slides with house at the very beginning. When I correctly remember ( I deleted your files. ) at the beginning you have some light blue background, titles and the map insert. No one of these compenents are video files. Than you show the house again with two jpg slides with pan function and the yellow titles. The second cut created the first flicker. (Transition between the two house slides)
I only reedit this part starting with some mpg video in front and readded your first 4-5 clips and titles. (Just about 20 seconds. This was OK on my VS2018 also after rendering. Interestingly your original vsp was quite OK before rendering, but after rendering I have got also the flickers. ( on the timeline and in preview window at the beginning there was no flicker, later sometimes randomly I have got the effect).
I never had such issue on my films.

Good luck!

[lata]

Hi
First I do not believe it is the first clip being an image rather than a video is causing the problem.
I have never seen this effect at all using Video Studio.
The project renders ok using X9, I have not tried X10 but will do so later today.
I also rendered using 2018 to MP4 with no flicker, only to Mpeg2 720 x 576
The project is using DVD Mpeg2 as are the video files to create/burn a DVD are the correct settings.
The video / settings are of course anamorphic so is something going wrong when using Video Pan and Zoom and a 720 x 576 timeline.
It may be that FX Video Pan & Zoom has been updated with 2018 which could be affecting this.
I guess try to replicate this from new using 2018
Oh and the images are not 16:9 ratio should not affect this, you never know?

Its is not straight forward and will be difficult if not impossible to track this down to one thing.

[weaver]

Hi

Here is the re-edited portion of the original video. No problem ( I found it in my recycle bin )
I inserted an icon showing the flicker on the original, in the new version there is totally smooth movement.

Download-Link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/86cfc4 ... 139/1fd9a2

The video will be available for the next 7 -8 days