Pan changes aspect ratio in VS 2018

[Nick3]

When we add a pan in VS 2018, the preview pane (right) shows the video in the correct aspect ratio, while the pane used to define the pan (left) shows the video elongated. After defining the pan and returning to the editing screen, the video is the wrong aspect ratio and the pan is incorrectly cropped. The aspect ratio is squeezed and the crop cuts off the bottom and the top. What are we doing wrong?

[lata]

Hi Nick
And welcome to the forums
You mention “Aspect ratio” but do not give any details of your video file or your project properties. 4:3 16:9 ?
Go to Settings – Project Properties, what are they?
Then right click a clip on the timeline and choose properties?

You also say refer to “elongated”, is that vertical or horizontal, I am assuming vertically as a Iphone video in portrait mode?

We need more info, a screen shot would help?

[Nick3]

The project was 16:9, 1920x1080. When I clicked on the clip, it was 16:9, 1440x1080. I changed the project setting to match the clip -- 1440x1080 -- and that seems to have solved one of our problems. The pans in the editing preview pane no longer seem "squeezed." (Much to the disappointment of our talent -- he liked looking skinny.) The pans in the rendered videos had also seemed squeezed, and that problem is solved as well. Our talent looks properly plump in the rendered video. However, the video (both in the preview and in the render) is still being improperly cropped. The pan cuts off the top and the bottom. And the right pane is still "stretched." I don't know what aspect ratio it's showing but I would guess 1920x1080. I've sent a screen shot.

By the way -- thank you for replying so quickly. I've used Video Studio for years, but this is my first project in VS 2018. Panning is very different from what we used previously in VSX5, and I very much appreciate the help.

[Nick3]

Here are two more pics that show the extent of the cropping problem. Photo 2a (bottom) shows how we cropped the video at the beginning of the pan. It shows the left (preview) pane in the pan/crop tool. Photo 2b (top) shows the same frame as it appears in the editing preview pane. This is also how the video renders. As you can see, the crop comes in way too close. Not only are the top and bottom cut out, so are both the left and right sides. Is there something we should be doing to make sure the crops match?

[lata]

Hi

I have run a few tests using 1440 x 1080 samples and believe this is a problem with the program in handling those sizes, probably being anamorphic, that is the 1440 x 1080 being stretched to 16:9 ratio.
I also tried the FX Video Pan & Zoom with similar results.
There is an option to use Customise Motion, right click the clip on the timeline for that option
This is a good tool, versatile and may do what you want.

If you convert your video to use 1920 x 1080 then I do not think you would have a problem.
File Batch Convert or any other video converter would do the job

I think you should report this issue to Corel Support, I do not think earlier versions had this problem.

I am a little concerned as to what results you will get after rendering with P& Z applied?
Are you able to provide a sample of your 1440 x 1080 video, we/I can then run a few more tests

[Nick3]

As we investigate this more on our own, we're finding there's more to this. We're shooting on a Canon XA10 in HD -- 1920x1080, 16:9. When we import the clips into VS 2018, it changes their properties to 1440x1080, 16:9 -- which is weird, because 1440x1080 is 4:3, but I'm just telling you what the screen says when I right click on the imported clip and choose "Properties." The clip, by the way, plays in the preview screen at what is obviously the proper aspect ratio -- 16:9. However, when I add a pan/zoom to it with the pan tool, it immediately goes to a 4:3 aspect ratio on the editing preview pane. Remove the pan, and it goes back to 16:9. During this entire experiment, the project properties were set to 1920x1080, 16:9. Changing the project properties to 1440x1080 and adding the pan back in, and the results are unpredictable. Sometimes we can get the pan to work, sometimes it won't. When is works, it's always at the wrong aspect ratio and the crops (pan preview vs. editing preview) never, ever match. WTH?

I agree with you, Iata, that I should report this to Corel.

[Nick3]

We may have developed a work-around. Our Canon XA10 spits out raw footage in the MTS format. VSX5 seemed to have no problem with this -- we imported, panned, and zoomed to our hearts content. VS 2018 seems less friendly to MTS files. We tried panning/zooming with one of the stock MP4 files that Corel provides and it worked just fine. So we imported and MTS file, rendered it as an MP4, and added a pan with a zoom. No problems -- the aspect ratio is unchanged; the crops match. Tried the same footage in MTS, added exactly the same pan and zoom, and you could almost hear the indigestion starting up. We're going to try converting our raw footage to MP4 files before we edit it and see if there is a reduction in quality in the finished product.

[lata]

Hi
How are you transferring the clips to the pc
Does the camera come with software that can be used, if so try that rather than copying from sd card

Something in the back of my mind recalls this being raised before??

[lata]

Non Square Pixel Rendering

In our minds eye we see pixels as being square but this may not be true
1440 x 1080 using a calculator shows as 4:3.
However the video is Anamorphic in that the pixels are stretched into a rectangular shape, that shape being 16:9 (Non Square Pixel Rendering)
The camcorder sets the attributes of the video to the correct ratio 16:9 or indeed 4:3
Media players / video editors read that info and display the video accordingly and we see what we expect to see a video in proportion at 16:9
Non Square Pixel Rendering was use a lot for Standard definition, DV-AVI and DVD Mpeg2, Pal 720 x 576 can be 4:3 or 16:9,

Introduce HD at 1920 x 1080 and the pixels are now square, no need for NSPR with the exception of 1440 x 1080 video.
Now Video Studio 2018 is reading these videos incorrectly with problems showing when using P&Z
The 1440 x 1080 samples I used were rendered using 2018, I get the same ratios as your first image.

As your camcorder uses MTS those will be the best option till Corel fixes the 1440 issue.

[Nick3]

We transfer the files from the camera to the computer with a simple drag & drop -- we found the transfer software that Canon provided was a PIA. We download a free batch processor (Pavtube DVD/Video Converter) this morning and tried a conversion of an MTS file to HD AVI (1920x1080). Then we converted the same file to MP4 using VS 2018 to render. We put those two converted files, both the AVI and Mp4, on the same timeline, added a pan and zoom, and they both worked equally well -- although we did get the AVI file to mess up at one point. It showed up on the preview pane appearing squeezed, but that disappeared when we removed the p&z, then re-added it. Go figure.

You've got us wondering if the raw video we're getting from the Canon XA10 in not true 1920x1080, but an anamorphic 1440x1080. Perhaps the raw video needs to be processed -- that is, cut into square bits -- to prevent VS 2018 from mistakenly processing the file as an un-anamorphic 1440x1080. That would explain the much (but not everything) we've experience in the last few days. You given us a lot to research, but for right now we're going to use the batch processor as a work-around. One of the things that worries us is this: We've edited raw MTS footage on both VSX3 and VSX5 with no problems. If VS 2018 has changed something as basic as this, what other unpleasant surprises are we in for?

Again, Trevor, thanks for your help and interest.

[lata]

Hi Nick
Maybe I should have asked but a little unsure what type of video the 1440 x 1080 is, is it MTS or Mpeg4
Can you right click on one of the original video clips on the timeline, Properties, what are they?
Create an image to attach to your post

I would have thought that the camera would allow you to choose 1920 x 1080 for recordings and not 1440 x 1080.
1920 x 1080 would be true 16 : 9 with no resizing issues when applying P& Z.

It is the P& Z that is giving the problem, that editing the 1440 is ok without P& Z
I did mention that Customise Motion may be used instead of P& Z which as far as I could see worked ok. If that is suitable then you would not have to convert the original video.
I do not think converting to AVI is the way to go, you should consider your final output video, what are you trying to make?
If it’s a Bluray disc then MTS, otherwise I would have thought Mpeg4 would be suitable.
By the way Pan & Zoom has been upgraded for 2018, supposed to be improved, X10 has the older version and works ok. So again it is a 2018 problem. There is a FX Video P & Z filter but that also gives problems.

[Ken Berry]

The other thing that comes to mind here is that HDV video comes natively as 1440 x 1080 anamorphic but renders (in earlier VS versions at least) to 1920 x 1080. I will need to dig some out to see what happens in VS 2018. (You will recall, Trevor, that I am a long-time user of HDV though confess I have not used my Canon HV20 for a couple of years... and it will take time to charge the battery to be able to play around with it again.)

I also recall, the same as you Trevor, that with Panasonic and Canon AVCHD cameras such as the X10, the video in the camera was MTS but when downloaded using the software supplied with the camera, it became .m2ts and Blu-Ray compatible. I don't recall, however, any discussion at the time about the original video being anamorphic and transformed by the download process to full 16:9 1920 x 1080 -- though that might have been the case and we were simply unaware of it.

I know Nick has said the software supplied by Canon is a PIA to use, but I am wondering if he could nevertheless use it to see if, as I suspect, the download software will transform the original MTS in the camera to 1920 x 1080 .m2ts... If it does, that would IMHO provide a potentially better quality outcome, or at least another work-around, regardless of how much of a PIA it might be...

[lata]

Hi Ken
The tests I conducted using 1440 x 1080 video were made / rendered using VS 2018 so that really rules out any problems with the camera, but my thoughts were the same as yours in using the canon software.
It is the Pan & Zoom feature that messes up the sizes, FX Video P&Z is also a problem.
Editing the video without Pan & Zoom seems ok.

I googled the Canon camera that records to AVCHD and I assume Mpeg4
Below are the options, I believe choosing the FXP option would be more suitable and a better quality, and certainly better than converting the 1440 video.
Otherwise the top option MXP for the full quality.
MXP: 1920x1080, 24Mbps;
FXP: 1920x1080, 17Mbps;
XP+: 1440x1080, 12Mbps;
SP: 1440x1080, 7Mbps;
LP: 1440x1080, 5Mbps

[Ken Berry]

I've now had a chance to play with some HDV footage in VS 2018 and applying the Video Pan & Zoom filter. Just as general info, HDV has fixed properties: 1440 x 1080, Upper Field First, 25/29.97 fps, and bitrate constant 25 Mbps. It's anamorphic non-square pixel 16:9, and uses .m2t as its extension. It is not Blu-Ray compliant, but is easy to convert to BD-compliant .m2ts mpeg-2 (or AVCHD for that matter).

When using it in VS 2018, however, the Video Pan & Zoom filter appears to behave correctly. I've played around a fair bit with a couple of HDV clips, changing the size and placement of various points of focus, zoom in and out. The clips had a number of people in them. Yet the correct aspect ratio was maintained throughout.

I also rendered ti to 1920 x 1080 mp4 and the aspect ratio was maintained in the new video.

So I suspect the problem in this thread is indeed related to the way VS 2018 sees your specific type of 1440 x 1080 video when applying the P&Z filter.

[lata]

Hi Ken
Interesting
I just don't understand why I had problems using video created using video studio?