Cubebase audio into 2018 ultimate emits slight noise

[asik1]

Don't forget Judas to test room (hall) tone as well.

[weaver]

Hi Judas

The problem is that you will not hear that noise above 18 kHz and also most audio spectrum analyzers will not show it as the noise is already over the audio freq. range.
According the view what I saw on the spectrum pictures it is a simple HF noise, not an RF interference. Such noise happens when the audio source (microphones etc) are not properly connected to the recording device (balanced/unbalanced cables etc).
It also can happen that you use some noise reduction system. This usually lifts the high frequency audio signals before processing, while in playback the inverted process is active, ie it supresses the higher frequencies, reducing the noise floor from the recording,processing device..
It can happen when you record the signal for eg.with Dolby, but in playback mode you switch off the Dolby processor.
Other possible reasons may be in mixing desk with boosted high frequency gain (treble), some special filters (like echos,reverb etc) incorrect power supplies (switching) or earth loops.
I am sure that in the air there is nothing in this frequency range, ie the microphone will not capture any signals over 15-18 kHz.
In some rooms you may have aircondition hiss, but this frequency is usually lower (<10 kHz), only very few stupid constructions are on market, which tend to create high frequency noise (whistling). Usually not used in rooms for music.
Of course there may be many modern systems from heating to remote control devices and power suplies which may generate hiss above the audio range, but it is very unusual that something similar happens in concerthall.

Good luck

[asik1]

Very good points Weaver

[judas_64]

Well, the issue has been resolved (sort of). The problem definitely is in VS 2018. After running back and forth with customer service for days and trying different drivers (none worked) they decided to close the ticket without resolution or my pleas to escalate it to the next tier. Oh heck no. I called and they reluctantly are taking it to level 2. (I have not heard back, so another call is in order) So. I painstakingly tried new cables, batteries and different mics as well as 3 different PC's and still was getting a digital enveloping on my audio. The solution for now.... Devinci resolve 15. IT'S FREE and oh so much more powerful. Not as user friendly, but if you want PROFESSIONAL level editing software this is it. The audio controls and color controls, heck all controls cometely overpower VS 2018. The only thing I like better in VS2018 is the text tool... Your audio in Devinci comes out as you put it in!!
Thanks all!!

[weaver]

I do not know, how did Devinci solved your problem. I use VS (from the Ulead age), for music videos and I never had such problems. I never needed any audio processor SW to adjust the audio track to VS ( i use Magix, Pro Tools and other audio processor SWs, even for multitrack recording and mixing and all my files were always compatible with VS. The maximum what I do with external audio SW is the level adjustment.
There is some unbelievable mistery.
Maybe, when I am at home again I will check the Devinci. I do not have the cubase.

[judas_64]

I'm not sure either, but that digital enveloping is not there after Davinci. In fact it sounds as I completed it in Cubebase. I'm using 3 AKG C414 xlii on a bonsai Decca tree all recording to a zoom F8. So, this is far from the basic mic to camera that VS may not be able to handle?
The audio controls in Davinci is superior, so I can fine tune it further if needed. . The more I'm playing with it, the more I'm liking it. A definite step up from consumer to professional level. But one heck of a learning curve! What I'm doing for now is doing my basic stuff in VS 2018. Rendering it then opening it in Davinci. Add my completed audio and strip VS 2018. I then further edit with color correct and other stuff. All superior to VS. But, not for the faint of heart. So much there and so much to learn. For now, VS has a much better title creator, but then again I haven't really tried it in Davinci. All I can say is give it a whirl. For now, I'm utilizing the best of both!!

[weaver]

Basically we still do not know where are you getting the hiss over 18kHz. It does not come from the AKG mic neither from the Zoom.
That Davinci removes it probably is correct ( from an audio processor you should not get any signal over 20 kHz...), but this just fixes something what should not be there.

[judas_64]

You are absolutely right! Still thinking it was something at the venue? I've been testing this over and over. I've been recording in my vocals (talking) and running the analysis and I'm around the 80 to 100 Hz range give it take. And VS still envelopes with digital noise. No other software does this. (Audacity, Microsoft's players) only after rendering in VS.....

[weaver]

There must be something in Cubase. This is the only equipment in your audio chain, what creates something what VS does not like.

[asik1]

There must be something in Cubase. This is the only equipment in your audio chain, what creates something what VS does not like.

Cubase has a trial version, I download it and maybe test it next week.
it's been 20 years since I last run cubase, I don't know if I remember anything.

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/s ... ubase.html

[weaver]

I am in similar situation with Cubase, I also stopped to use it several decades ago.

[judas_64]

Hi Weaver. I had an audio guy grab my raw file and process in Logic Pro. In both 96/24 and 48/16 applying different filters and such. He also saved in various mp3 formats. And all of these have that digital enveloping when rendered in VS. Now, in VS's defense, I do not notice it (as much) when I record amplified rock it jazz shows, but is very noticeable in acoustic venues. He believes VS is utilizing some sort of algorithm. Again in VS's defense, he said my audio was pretty noisy with a lot of audience noise (coughing, shuffling, talking etc...) but no reason for the enveloping. ) I will post a link once I upload to YouTube one from VS, and one from Davinci Resolve. Honestly, there's NO comparison.. So weather VS is finding something and amplifying it, or the others are omitting it, what I put in is what I expect out and VS is not doing this....

[judas_64]

Sorry meant "whether not weather "

[weaver]

As already said the problem is very curious and appears only in your setup.
The only difference between our experiences and yours is the Cubase. I cannot investigate the problem as I do not use this program, but many others also for music productions, including synthesizers and live recording (dramas with audience, and natural noisy sounds like noisy railways etc) i never had such issue.
As already discussed in natural world you will not record too much signals over 15 kHz. The human ear does not recognize them, and the typical audio equipment (microphone, mixing desk, recoding device) simulates the human ear, and cuts off everything over 20 kHz. ( In digital world the cutoff is very hard, due to interrnal signal processing. The sampling rate - 44.1, 48 kHz limits the highest processed signal to the half of the sampling frequency reduced by the quality of the filters). Ie from such device you cannot get higher frequencies than 20 kHz - even in case when you use 48 kHz sampling, the highest frequency will be always limited to 20 kHz! In your signal from Cubase there are components up to 30 kHz - what is generally a problem. For such signals you need a sampling ferquency over 60 kHz! The audience or room noise is much lower as 10-15 kHz. These components are not recorded, but generated by something and should not be there. Obviously VS has no components to cut off such noise, maybe Davinci has, but this not common and not a job for the video editors. This noise can interfere in devices in any audio chain - not only in VS.
If your signal rendered on Pro Logic has also components over 20 kHz, that is bad news, as Pro Logic is a certified audio device ( used around the world by professionals) this audio editor should not generate any signal above the normal audio range (20-20000 Hz) independently on the selection of the internal sampling rates (96/24 or 48/16). Those settings just control the internal processing quality, always in the same audio bandwidth as the output signal must be compatible with the audio standards. ( How somebody will record such signal to CD or transmit into the FM radio?)
Any signal over 20 kHz will or can generate aliasing effect in any audio device, as they are generally not designed to process signals over 20 kHz. This is the basic rule, and we have to accept this.

[asik1]

side note,
I didn't install Cubase trial as it asks for 5.5GB just for the download. So no thanks.