Best way to control file size?

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Fred_Smith
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Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

Hi all. I'm new to video editing but like to think I am reasonably intelligent. :lol: I bought VS Ultimate two days ago for work. Every video I'll ever make starts off as a recorded meeting made from WebEx (similar to Skype, GoToMeeting, GlobalMeet, etc.). It's always going to be somebody sharing their screen, moving the mouse around, and talking about various things. I'd like to be able to edit the videos for content (trimming, mostly). Which one of the output formats is best for what I need? I'm working with my first file now and am getting frustrated. Here's what I've tried:

1. Source file properties
- .mp4 video
- 6.5 minutes long
- 1024 x 768
- 5 frames per second
- 24 Kbps data rate
- audio track is one person talking
- file size is 1.8 MB on my computer (that's not a typo)

2. I Capture it in VS Ultimate, crop the picture to remove the unwanted parts (top and bottom of the screen to get rid of the presenter's task bar and URL that he's displaying), and don't do any other editing of any kind.
3. I render it in these formats which results in these file sizes. Keep in mind the source file was only 1.8 MB.

a) MPEG-4 720x480 30p 2.5 Mbps (46MB)
b) MPEG-4 1280x720 30p 10Mbps (67MB)
c) MPEG-4 1280x640 30p 10Mbps (73MB)
d) XAVC S MP4 HD 1280x720 60p 20Mbps (82MB)

What am I missing here? I'm brand new to VS so please be specific if you type things like "go into Settings". Thanks a lot in advance!
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Ken Berry »

Hi Fred, and welcome to the forum.

First off, you're probably not missing anything regarding your outputs. What you are probably not aware of, though, relates to your original video. First off, while mpeg-4 is a popular format associated with small files, and is fairly easily edited, your version of it is not standard in video editing terms. 1024 x 768 is by no means a standard frame size. The usual sizes would be the ones you have tried outputting to (720 x 480, 1280 x 720) plus ones like full HD 1920 x 1080 and 4K 3840 x 2160. But we won't worry about those last two for now as there would be no sense in choosing either of them for outputting your video.

The really surprising thing about your original video, though, is the frame rate of only 5 frames per second. I am not even sure why or how that frame rate could produce smooth-looking video -- though admittedly, for a conference call there would not be much movement, let alone fast movement, and no panning of the camera which would appear strange with such a low frame rate. The normal frame rate would again be what you used in your output files i.e. 30 frames per second (actually and more accurately 29.97 fps for NTSC countries, which I assume you are in.) Again we probably don't need to go into whether that is 30 interlaced frames or 30 full frames (30i or 30p). And you could also have 60 fps.

The bitrate (sometimes called data rate) of your video is also pretty low at 24 kbps though some mpeg-4 codecs can still produce good quality video with such a low bitrate. Bitrate is one of the most important factors influencing quality in a video. Usually, the higher the bitrate, the better the quality. But increasing the bitrate also means that you are increasing the size of your resulting videos. That explains -- at least to me! :wink: -- the significantly larger clips produced in your last three output examples since apart from anything else they are using bitrates 4 times (10 Mbs) and 8 times (20 Mbps) higher than your original video.

In addition to that, to get from a frame rate of 5 fps to 30 fps Video Studio is in effect having to invent new frames -- 25 new frames per second -- to get it up to the output frame rate. It does so by repeating existing frames. Again, I'd have to say I don't think the resulting video would look particularly good, but again would be 'saved' by the small amount of movement in a conference call. I suspect your first output example is the size it is (46 MB) largely because of this factor and also the mpeg-4 codec used by Video Studio, since the bitrate is largely the same as your original (2.5 Mbps). And by the way, in video terms 46 MB is itself pretty small for a 6.5 minute video!

One other small mystery remains. You say you "capture" the video in VS. What exactly do you mean by that? Can you give a step by step account of how you go about capturing the video? Normally, I imagine WebX would create a video of the conference call and store it on (probably) an SD card in the phone set-up or a computer. Again normally, we would simply plug the SD card into the computer with VS on it and use VS's "Insert Video File" command (when you right click either the library window or the timeline), browse to the SD card and open the relevant file which should then appear in the library or timeline. You could also copy the file from the SD card to your computer's hard disk, then browse and insert as described above. Did you do that or something else?

Do you get any message pop-up when you insert your video clip into the timeline to start the new project? The message would ask if you wanted the project properties to match those of your clip. If not, then go to Settings > Preferences, and on the General tab, about half way down, make sure the box beside "Show message when first video is inserted into the timeline" is ticked.

If you get such a message, then after you finish editing, and want to output a new and edited video with the same properties as the original, you go to Share and at the very top, tick the box which initially says Same As Project Properties, though in this case, you could also select Same As First Clip (which you get by clicking the little downward pointing arrow to the right of the box). See where the green arrow is pointing in the image I have attached below.
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VS Same As First Clip.jpg
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

Wow! Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation of some basic concepts, I really appreciate it and it makes a lot of sense. When I wrote “capture” I was just using the term that VS uses. I meant “I clicked the tab next to the Edit tab in your screenshot. I would call it uploading but hey, that’s me. When I get home tonight I’ll play with the WebEx settings and see if it will output to something a little more reasonable in terms of FPS and resolution.
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Ken Berry »

For most purposes these days you can ignore that Capture tab. For most types of video these days you are indeed just uploading or transferring video clips like you would any other file from one place to another on your computer. In this case, as I already said, all you need to do is either have your video clip on an SD card or other drive (USB stick drive or external hard drive) connected to your computer. Then you can either transfer it to your computer's hard drive and "upload" it into VS from there, or else direct from the external drive.

The only danger with the latter is that if you are uploading from an external source but later close VS and reopen it and the same project, depending on what else you've done on your computer, the external drive (including SD cards) may have changed drive letter, and VS may not be able to find the clip. You will then need to manually relink the drive and clip before you can go on with your editing. In that sense, until you get used to a workflow and editing, it might be best for a while to first transfer your clip to your computer hard drive and upload from there as the fixed architecture of your computer itself will not change drive letters.
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

Ken,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to type all that out, I really do appreciate it. So I found a setting in the WebEx recorded software that lets me record in "high quality" vice the medium quality it was in before. That looks like it got the WebEx output up to a whopping 8 fps. I converted that file to an .mp4 and added it to the VS timeline. When I went to share it this time I see an error message that reads "the frame size (1024x768) of the video file does not match the settings and therefore cannot be trimmed." Ugh. I didn't even try to trim it, I just added it to the timeline straight from my hard drive.

I think I'm just going to have to do a live screen capture. What I mean is, I'll play the WebEx on my computer and set VS to record the screen. That'll capture the audio too, I'll just have to be careful to not sneeze or cough haha.
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Ken Berry »

You say you converted the WebX footage to mpeg-4. Well, what format was it before that and wouldn't VS accept it in that format?

And yes, I guess a fallback would be to do a screen capture. I assume you would be using the Corel Live Screen Capture module which came with VS?
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by asik1 »

I believe Fred is using his system record feature and not external one.
I will handle it differently,
As VS wont export this resolution to mp4 Fred can export it as Xvid AVI no problem.

Or... to place a 16:9 background image on video track,
his videos as fit to hight overlay,
and export as 1280X720 mp4 at 3MB/s

**Good to know that VS import his raw files.
(If he will send us a 30sec sample file we can get all tests done)
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

WebEx uses a proprietary file extension called .ARF. You have to have their player to play the video files and most training platforms (LMS in the e-learning biz) don't use ARF either. So it’s easier to just convert the file from ARF to mp4.

Yes I used the VS built-in screen capture. It worked but it’s like holding your tape recorder up to a speaker to record a song, it picks up background noise too.

I will investigate the idea of putting a 16:9 image on the video track, that does sound intriguing. Thanks a lot for the suggestion. I don’t know how to send you a 30-second sample, can you eleaborate? I can easily make a test recording on my WebEx.
Last edited by Fred_Smith on Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by asik1 »

Fred_Smith wrote:WebEx uses a proprietary file extension called .ARF. You have to have their player to play the video files and most training platforms (LMS in the e-learning biz) doesn’t use ARF either. So it’s easier to just convert the file from ARF to mp4.

Yes I used the VS built-in screen capture. It worked but it’s like holding your tape recorder up to a speaker to record a song, it picks up background noise too.

I will investigate the idea of putting a 16:9 image on the video track, that does sound intriguing. Thanks a lot for the suggestion. I don’t know how to send you a 30-second sample, can you eleaborate? I can easily make a test recording on my WebEx.
You wrote that 6.5min .arf is just ~2mb, so half a minute is 150K? zip it and upload here.
I hope I could convert it to mp4.

What other record settings WebEx have in your system? it must be .arf?
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

1. I recorded myself talking for 30 seconds and converted the recording into three additional formats:
NOTE: the .ARF file that WebEx created is 801KB.

a) the .mp4 file that I converted it to using WebEx's software (140KB)
(the name of the conversion program I use is Network Recording Player, you can get a copy here: https://www.webex.com/play-webex-recording.html
b) the .SWF file that I describe below (14.3MB)
c) the WMV file, also described below (1.74MB)

2. I've never noticed this before but in addition to the .mp4 format I can also export in WMV and SWF. I tried to attach all four but only two are small enough for the forum, see below. The password for the .ARF recording, should you need it, is CorelVS1 (my company's security settings force us to add a password but this isn't company-related information).

3. I'm not sure why this happened but when I converted the .ARF file to .SWF it created a bunch of sub-files to go with it, I left them all in the folder that my computer created. Oh, there was an option on the .SWF menu for either Low or High "key frame rate", I left it in High for the conversion.
Last edited by Fred_Smith on Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

Gonna have to piecemeal the attachment, file size too large. Here is the .ARF file <redacted>
Last edited by Fred_Smith on Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

Here is the .mp4 file
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MP4 Password is CorelVS1.zip
(171.39 KiB) Downloaded 130 times
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

and even when zipped the WMV and SWF files are larger than 500KB. If any of y'all wanna give up an email address or an FTP site I can send the other two files to you that way.
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by asik1 »

Fred_Smith wrote:and even when zipped the WMV and SWF files are larger than 500KB. If any of y'all wanna give up an email address or an FTP site I can send the other two files to you that way.
I sent you PM .
I'll test your mp4. if the original arf file is tiny, no need to bloat it massively as SWF, go for WMV or mp4.
1280X720.jpg
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Re: Best way to control file size?

Post by Fred_Smith »

Any update? I'm kinda getting the hang of doing screen captures but the resulting files are still enormous. Is 75MB normal for a 4:10 video saved as WMV at 1280x720, 30p, 10Mbps?

Does "10 Mbps" really mean 10 MB per second of video? Clearly not or my 4-minute video would be 2400MB in size.

What can I do to get that file size down? Most videos I create are hosted on a Learning Management System (LMS) platform, the user would be streaming the video.
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