Paste as new layer puzzle

[terrypin]

To paste an image as a new layer into an existing PSP 8 image, my usual workflow is to open it in IrfanView, hit Ctrl+C, activate the PSP 8 image, and hit Ctrl+L.
Suddenly, some (not all!) of the JPGs that I add in this way are appearing in PSP 8 as a raster, not a layer. Is there some likely explanation I've not spotted please?

[hartpaul]

A layer can be a raster layer, a vector layer, a mask layer and an adjustment layer.
AS well an image first added is usually a background layer.
So what do you mean a raster not a layer. Do you mean that the image is not being added as a new layer to your existing image. Or that it is appearing as a new image .

[terrypin]

Do you mean that the image is not being added as a new layer to your existing image.

Yes. And it remained a raster even after repeatedly clicking the Deform tool. The problem remained after restarting PSP 8.

But some hours later I rebooted the PC and pleased to say it now it seems OK. IOW, I use Edit > Paste > Paste as new layer (or Ctrl + L) and, if necessary, activate the Deform tool to make the layer accessible for resizing/moving.

So, one of those quirks that will remain a mystery!

[hartpaul]

Have you tried a different way of doing that - Load the two images A and B . Arrange them so you can see both images on the desktop. Now say you want A on top of B. Make Layer A active. Then left click the layer A and drage and drop onto image B. Does a copy and paste without all that Control C , Control L.
And if you want a duplicate copy of teh image on the workspace just drop in an empty area of the workspace. Saves doing Shift D.

[terrypin]

I must be missing something obvious! By "Load the two images A and B." you clearly don't mean open them both in the single instance of PSP 8, as dragging one over the other then naturally does nothing.

"Make Layer A active"?
But how do layers A and B get created?

Anyway, JPGs here are associated with IrfanView so my method is very fast:
1. D-click the JPG file in its folder. It opens in IrfanView in a flash, at least as quick as dragging the JPG into PSP.
2. Hit Ctrl+C.
3. Activate the (assumed already-open) target in PSP 8.
4. Hit Ctrl+L
5. If necessary hit D.

[hartpaul]

I have a windows explorer folder open with the two images to be processed. (I called one A and the other B for simplicity of explanation).
I drag both those images onto the PSP8 workspace (have labelled them A and B so you can see what is happening.)

This shows the two images loaded with Image A being the current active one as I want to put A on top of B.

This shows the dragging of the layer thumb A over on top of Image B and dropping it there.

This shows the result of the drag and drop with the copy of Image A now represented as the Raster layer on top of Image B.

In action this is much faster than looking down at the keyboard and finding the keys and using them .
I cannot touch type and using this method I keep my eyes on the screen all the time. It is also very useful for placing a number of images on top of each other quickly and avoids using menus and shortcut keys.

[terrypin]

Thanks, I’ll have an attempt at that when I get back to my PC. I assume you’ve not shown the extra two steps to turn the original Backgrounds into layers?

[JoeB]

Thanks, I’ll have an attempt at that when I get back to my PC. I assume you’ve not shown the extra two steps to turn the original Backgrounds into layers?

Terry, either I'm not quite getting the issue you're having or, if I do then you're not quite getting how PSP works.

I have PSP open, and I open two images (jpg) in the PSP workspace.

Making either of them active will show them in the Layers palette as Background, because they have not been promoted nor do they have to be.

I click on the title bar of the image I want to add as a layer on the other image. This makes that image active.

I click, in the Layers palette, on the thumbnail or the word Background and drag that over and on top of the other image and release the mouse button.

That drops the first image on top of the second image as a layer and makes that the active image. And the Layers palette for that image now shows two thumbnails, the bottom one still named Background, and the top one (being the image I dropped on it) being named Raster 1.

So, as Jean-Luc was explaining, if you have both images open in the PSP workspace you do not have to promote them to Raster layer in the Layers palette. It's simply a method of dragging the thumbnail from one image onto another image to add it as a layer. Or, if you want to just make a duplicate of one image even if it's a Background layer, then drag the thumbnail on to an empty spot in the PSP workspace.

So simple - open two images, drag thumbnail of one onto the top of the other image. No reason to have to do Ctrl-C, Ctrl-L, or any keyboard maneuvers whatsoever. No need to move your hands from the mouse to the keyboard and hit any keys whatsoever. And the Deform tool (Pick tool in later versions of PSP) is just one click away on the toolbar (or use Ctrl-D if that's your preference). And no need to open a second program like Irfanview to start with to achieve what you want.

[terrypin]

Thanks Joe, I hadn't realised that the backgrounds did not need promoting to layers. So that does indeed make hartpaul's method simple and fast. Possibly as fast as my current method. Have you tried that to compare speeds BTW? I''ll use the 'All PSP' for a while to become familiar/adept with it, to make a comparison of speed.

However, I use IrfanView for many tasks. Cropping is much easier IMO. And so is adding simple text boxes.

Another factor, unique to me, is that PSP 8 (which I still mainly use rather than PSP 2018, because of its familiarity) conflicts greatly with my Macro Express macros. IrfanView doesn't.

[hartpaul]

My apology for omitting the extra step of converting the background layer to a raster. That was done only because I could not rename the Background layers to A and B for the respective images in PSP8.
Once converted to a raster layer I was then able to access and rename the layers.

And to test yourself on the methods try each and time them:
1. first two images and one on another as you requested.
2. use 5 images to be added .
3. Try doing both methods while you are using your left hand to drink and eat some snacks.

[JoeB]

Thanks Joe, I hadn't realised that the backgrounds did not need promoting to layers. So that does indeed make hartpaul's method simple and fast. Possibly as fast as my current method. Have you tried that to compare speeds BTW? I''ll use the 'All PSP' for a while to become familiar/adept with it, to make a comparison of speed.

However, I use IrfanView for many tasks. Cropping is much easier IMO. And so is adding simple text boxes.

Another factor, unique to me, is that PSP 8 (which I still mainly use rather than PSP 2018, because of its familiarity) conflicts greatly with my Macro Express macros. IrfanView doesn't.

No, I haven't compared your method to mine and hartpaul's. That's because, like him, I find it obvious that using a method that starts with using a mouse to open an image in PSP, then double-clicking to open another image in Irfanview, then moving my hands to the keyboard and fingering shortcut keys to copy, then back to PSP, then shortcut keys - different ones - again to paste as new layer, and then moving my hands back to the mouse for further work on the layered image with PSP, obviously has to take much more movement, actions and time than just keeping my hands on the mouse that opened both images in PSP in the first place and then doing a simple click, drag and drop.

Any time you can cut down on moving your hands from the input device you are using (mouse) to another input device (which second device - keyboard - also requires the use of memory and at least two fingers - and often 2 hands - to find and hit shortcut keys), then having to move back to the first input device, then it's obviously going to be faster and take less movement, etc., simply just using the first input device. It's for that reason that I also have different bound scripts on my toolbar and menu bar which, with one click, will perform actions that either require drilling through menus or - for those who are addicted to moving from mouse to keyboard and back to mouse - requires having to change to another input device, find and finger the necessary keyboard shortcuts, and change back to the first input device again.

[JoeB]

My apology for omitting the extra step of converting the background layer to a raster. That was done only because I could not rename the Background layers to A and B for the respective images in PSP8.
Once converted to a raster layer I was then able to access and rename the layers.

Actually, you don't even have to promote a Background layer to be able to rename it. Just click on Background in the Layers palette and it will open the name up for renaming and you can rename it immediately. Doing so automatically promotes the Background layer to a Raster layer, but with whatever name you changed it to.

And to test yourself on the methods try each and time them:
1. first two images and one on another as you requested.
2. use 5 images to be added .
3. Try doing both methods while you are using your left hand to drink and eat some snacks.

I agree. I'm not setting down that glass of wine just to be able to do some simple copy and pasting!

[hartpaul]

BTW Joe in PSP8 you could not rename the layer unless it was a raster. You can in X2 but not in my 8.0. The name actually behaves as the thumbnail in later versions, double clicking requires opening the Layer Properties dialog and I get a warning that it needs to promote the layer first. In X2 and later double clicking the thumbnail automatically converts to raster layer and opens the Layer Properties dialog where you can rename the layer, but you can also click on the Background name and rename it - also promotes layer .

[JoeB]

BTW Joe in PSP8 you could not rename the layer unless it was a raster. You can in X2 but not in my 8.0. The name actually behaves as the thumbnail in later versions, double clicking requires opening the Layer Properties dialog and I get a warning that it needs to promote the layer first. In X2 and later double clicking the thumbnail automatically converts to raster layer and opens the Layer Properties dialog where you can rename the layer, but you can also click on the Background name and rename it - also promotes layer .

Good point. Although I'm aware of it, in my replies to Terry's posts I keep forgetting that he's using a much older version than I am!