Update: PSP2018 App launch time degradation

[Ken Berry]

I report this FWIW since like others I am not sure the slowness can be blamed on Defender, or Defender alone. I have reported elsewhere that I have been getting slow starts with successive versions of PSP. With PSP 2018 the situation seemed to get worse. With the computer I usually use PSP on, I was getting fresh starts of PSP after a reboot taking 1 minute 10 seconds. That computer is a Core i3 running Win 10.

I have installed 2018 on another computer recently -- a Core i7 also running Win 10. I have never used Defender on any computer, ever. Both these computers have McAfee Live Safe. With this second computer, I was also getting fresh boot starts of around 1 minute 10 seconds, though usually a few seconds less, but always over a minute.

On reading user experiences with Defender here and in another thread, I decided to fiddle around with it. So I enabled Defender, and updated it to the latest version of its virus signatures. I ran 2018 again, admittedly without rebooting, and still got times of 40 -- 45 seconds for these restarts, which is what I was getting before. So I deactivated Defender and reactivated McAfee.

That was yesterday. I closed down my computers overnight, and today tested PSP 2018 times after a fresh reboot of both computers. The i7 opened PSP to full usability in 40 seconds, with secondary starts taking 20 seconds. So something seems to have happened to make things considerably faster for me (though still slow compared to other users). I was inclined therefore to believe that updating Defender and rebooting may have been the cause, even though Defender remains disabled.

But I then booted up my i3 and the first boot of PSP 2018 took 45 seconds, and secondary restarts 25 seconds! In other words, very similar results again to the i7. Yet I had not touched Defender on the i3. Nor have there been any recent Win 10 updates -- the most recent was 31 January.

So yes, something has happened, but I am back to believing it was not Defender which improved things. The mystery continues!

[bruce1951]

Ken you would know the history of the slow start issues on this forum as well as anyone. It started many versions ago. I understand Corel won't go back and patch every old version. But for Corel to throw their collective hands in the air and declare victory is a bit of a stretch.

I'm one of the lucky ones with 'slow' starts being 15 seconds or more on initial start ups. Why is it that some users have issue and not others?

Add to that I haven't seen those complaining about slow starts of PSP complaining that other software is acting the same. So it is PSP. All versions. On only SOME computers.

There needs to be a more systematic investigation into what is causing ALL versions of PSP to slow down on only SOME computers.

bruce

[JoeB]

There needs to be a more systematic investigation into what is causing ALL versions of PSP to slow down on only SOME computers.

bruce

While I haven't done an actual count, I believe that by far the vast majority of those complaining about launch slowdowns (at least a minute to over 5 minutes from previous launch times no slower than yours and perhaps faster) are computers with Windows 10 operating systems. If I am correct about that then I would still surmise that it is largely a Microsoft issue, perhaps more apparent with WIN 10 systems simply because of the frequency and proliferation of updates for that system. A Google search will reveal that, since the release of WIN 10, there have been lots of complaints of various software programs slowing down or becoming otherwise compromised, a situation that didn't affect every user of such programs either. It's not as if we saw a plethora of people complaining about massive launch time increases in all the years prior to WIN 10's appearance.

[bruce1951]

JoeB the reality is that everything is moving on. Many folks are upgrading their version of both PSP and Win. As a result of this natural progression the majority of users will have Win 10 and PSP2018. Therefor the bulk of the problems will naturally be with those upgrading. That's not my issue. My point is that it has been an issue for a long time. As users upgrade the issue is simply being moved along with the upgrades.

bruce

[JoeB]

JoeB the reality is that everything is moving on. Many folks are upgrading their version of both PSP and Win. As a result of this natural progression the majority of users will have Win 10 and PSP2018. Therefor the bulk of the problems will naturally be with those upgrading. That's not my issue. My point is that it has been an issue for a long time. As users upgrade the issue is simply being moved along with the upgrades.

bruce

I tend to disagree, at least with the question that the majority of users will have WIN 10. The latest stats on Windows users as of February 1, 2018 shows that WIN 10 powers 39 percent of all PC's using some version of Windows. Windows 7 powers just over 48% of such users. And that leaves 13% using another version of Windows (likely most are on Windows 8/8.1). So 60 percent of Windows users are on versions older than Windows 10. If it was just - or mostly - PSP then we should have had even more people complaining about slowdowns on other Windows versions. And some of the reports are not just 2018 but X9 also, so it also can't be a combination of 2018 and WIN 10.

I'm not saying it's just WIN10/Defender or a combination thereof. But given that (a) WIN 10 has been available for a long time (in computer terms); (b) X9 has been available for quite awhile in the same terms; and (c) the rash of complaints - which include X9 but mostly 2018 I think - have started after the Windows 10 Creators updates and affected - on the basis of reports - mostly Windows 10 users since the updates, it still makes that at least the most logical initiater of the issue. But that, of course, is JMHO.

That said, as another long time forum member like yourself, I honestly cannot remember any time there have ever been such a rash or number of reports of slow launch times - and particularly not the times being reported by some. To me, a first launch time of one minute might seem long but could be system specific, and the same with subsequent launches of 25 seconds or so. I think Terrypin (or was it Ken?) fits into that category, but he's still the minority. So perhaps the idea that slow launch times have been around for a long time depends on one's perspective - i.e., what's slow - as well as whether or not, in the past, they have appeared as a sudden rash of complaints like it is now, or if, in fact, the sum total of them were individual and quite spaced out in time. Just a thought.

[bruce1951]

Oh no someone who disagrees with me. What next.

JoeB I generalise and don't have the figures. But the 13% of sane folks using Win 8.1 is a surprise! (I'm using Win 8.1. )

I guess what I'm trying to say that because everyone with PSP2018 and Win 10 combination aren't having the same problem/s, and older versions also had problems, then I tend to think there is way more to this issue.

I would never have the patience to wait a minute for any software to load. I admire those who do. I use Photoline for my go to editor. Way more grunt than PSP and loads in less than 5 second every time. I start PSP in the background and it take approx 15 seconds first time. 5-6 seconds in subsequent starts.

bruce

[flagpole]

It's not the percentage of people running windows 10 that is important. To state it explicitly it's the percentage of PSP 2018 users that are running windows 10.

And since both are new i suggest the coincidence is likely to be much higher.

[hartpaul]

And to throw some more spanners into the ring (mixed metaphors) have done some tests without internet connected and also with different programs. Unfortunately I do not have Photoshop on my main system so cannot compare it under the same conditions.
My results:

All programs have a longer startup time for the first occasion after a reboot.
For Jasc PSP 8.1 there is very little difference between internet connections. For the others that use the net to call home (X2, X9, 2018) the internet connected is slightly slower.
The only one similar to PSP X9 is Affinity Photo.
Many other graphics programs are vastly shorter in load times often because they are simpler, excepting for Photoline which being as complex as PSP 2018 and Photoshop is probably more precisely coded, showing what can be done with good programming and supported feedback.

[Radim]

If possible add info about loading time for your system HDD/5400/7200rpm or SSD.

[terrypin]

Very interesting, hartpaul and hopefully useful to Corel.

Here, my video editor Movie Edit Pro Plus Premium is ready to use in 7 secs. Xara Photo Graphics Designer takes 4 s.

PSP 8.1 seems a tad slower today at 8 s!

[juergen]

...
I understand Corel won't go back and patch every old version. But for Corel to throw their collective hands in the air and declare victory is a bit of a stretch.
...
There needs to be a more systematic investigation into what is causing ALL versions of PSP to slow down on only SOME computers.
...
bruce

Corel told that the problem is that the (X.509)-certificate was on a blacklist.
Corel hasn't to patch any version.
The certificate(s) has to be declared as valid (again) only / remove it from the blacklist

I do not know what happens if a certificate is not valid.
Maybe:
certificate is valid -> trust the hash of an application -> no further check -> start application
certificate is not valid/blacklisted/... -> don't trust the hash of an application -> check it with the on-accecc-scanner -> start application

questions over questions:
- is (a part of) MS-defender is responsible to check the certificates - also if defender (as virus/malware-scanner) is disabled?
- validation of certificates are not checked under W10 only?
- blacklists are "used/shared" between manufacturers of virus/malware-software?

I don't know...

[flagpole]

What would defender do when launching an unsigned or blacklisted application when you're offline?

Also I've noticed that it is maxing out one core or 25% of my quad for most of the time it's dicking about.

[JoeB]

Oh no someone who disagrees with me. What next.

JoeB I generalise and don't have the figures. But the 13% of sane folks using Win 8.1 is a surprise! (I'm using Win 8.1. )

Maybe the only sane choice (except perhaps for WIN7) if reports by lots of people about lots of different issues with lots of different software since the release of WIN10 are to be believed. 8.1 might have a few quirks, but I run a whole bunch of different software (32bit and 64bit) and everything runs just fine and as advertised, thank you very much!

[juergen]

What would defender do when launching an unsigned or blacklisted application when you're offline?
Also I've noticed that it is maxing out one core or 25% of my quad for most of the time it's dicking about.

no big difference between online/offline.
By default the certificate-handling with X.509-certificates- generally - is managed by windows itself (mozilla... has its own store).
From time to time you can see "certificate store" windows updates - that has nothing to do with MS defender.
(trusted) certificates can be seen in internet options - content - certificates...
additional, server and clients can look (download) at CSR-lists (revocation-lists).
additional/alternative, OCSP-responder give real-time-feedback (good/revoked) - comparable with a blacklist.

But i don't know anything about software signing certificates and how MS is handling this.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... ertificate
I knew this so far only in connection with signed drivers for windows, MS-SmartScreen-technology for browser and downloads...

hmmmmm

"With the Windows 10 Creators Update, Microsoft placed the SmartScreen settings into the Windows Defender Security Center." (wikipedia)

[flagpole]

"With the Windows 10 Creators Update, Microsoft placed the SmartScreen settings into the Windows Defender Security Center." (wikipedia)

That is interesting, and may well be the key.