Strange Color Cast...?

[MickG]

I'm new here and I'm desperately trying to 'quit' Photoshop

I liked PSP 7 which I got bundled with Roxio Creator 4, so I purchased PSP18 Ultimate, thinking it would be that much better...turns out it wasn't... I had to return it because the clone brush does not work in 'gray scale' (I do a lot of B&W film scanning and restoration)...and the tech assigned to my case told me 'it may or may not be fixed in a future update'!

So I reinstalled PSP 7. And this is my problem. A few days ago I shot some images of the moon during the afternoon, daylight, with a nice, palish, blue sky. As usual, I use Nikon ViewNX2 to get the raw files from the camera and after any basic adjustments (in this case there were none) I sent the images to PSP7. When the PSP7 opens up, the images look fine, just as they left ViewNX2,so to speak...but after a few seconds, 7 (out of 22 total) of them become this horrible 'mauve-y, lavender-ish color'!! Among the 7 are some with the blue sky and some with a completely black sky!!

Now I've been trying to figure this out for several days now...uninstalled and reinstalled PSP7 I don't know how many times...so I realize I might have clicked something I shouldn't or what-have-you..but I'm very sure that I didn't SAVE any of these things...so, is there any way I can find out any editing that I might have done in error...and then delete those edits?

Any help, advice, assistance will be most appreciated,

Thanks

MickG

[JoeB]

Why are you using greyscale images? There is a difference between Greyscale and Black and White (B/W) although they both look almost the same to an average viewer. The actual Greyscale image will often just lack a certain depth - i.e., look a little flat. If you look at the Image Information of the image and it says Grey - 8bits/pixel, you can just increase the color depth to RGB - 8bits/pixel. It will still be black and white but you will be able to use the clone brush and any other tool which requires RGB color depth.

[MickG]

Why are you using greyscale images? There is a difference between Greyscale and Black and White (B/W) although they both look almost the same to an average viewer. The actual Greyscale image will often just lack a certain depth - i.e., look a little flat. If you look at the Image Information of the image and it says Grey - 8bits/pixel, you can just increase the color depth to RGB - 8bits/pixel. It will still be black and white but you will be able to use the clone brush and any other tool which requires RGB color depth.

Hi Joe, thanks for your reply to this and the other thread.

I think I have to apologize for not explaining my problems clearly enough. The B&W images for which I need the use of the 'clone brush' in PSP 2018 are scanned negatives of Tri-X 400 film - the word 'grayscale' was used by the Corel support agent who was assigned to my 'case', I never use 'grayscale' knowingly, I just thought that might be a Corel term for B&W! 'The clone tool in PSP 2018 didn't work on my B&W images' is what I should have said...

The 'strange color-cast' situation is something that's happening in PSP 7 (which I reinstalled because of the problem with PSP 2018) The images in question are digital color files, shot with a Nikon D750 and a 80-400mm lens with White Balance set at Daylight. As I said, in ViewNX2 and everywhere else they are as shot, some with the blue sky and some with a black sky, then when I send them into PSP 7, this strange color-cast happens. I'm thinking I must have clicked something by mistake, but after uninstalling and reinstalling the program twice the problem's still there; usually, when I've screwed up in other programs, uninstalling and reinstalling the program puts everything back to default...but not so with PSP 7 apparently (and I always clean out my registry and appdata etc. to get rid of any remnants when I uninstall a program)

Do you know of any other way that I can just put the program back to factory default?

Anyway thanks again, I hope this is clearer!

MickG

[JoeB]

I think I have to apologize for not explaining my problems clearly enough. The B&W images for which I need the use of the 'clone brush' in PSP 2018 are scanned negatives of Tri-X 400 film - the word 'grayscale' was used by the Corel support agent who was assigned to my 'case', I never use 'grayscale' knowingly, I just thought that might be a Corel term for B&W! 'The clone tool in PSP 2018 didn't work on my B&W images' is what I should have said...

The 'strange color-cast' situation is something that's happening in PSP 7 (which I reinstalled because of the problem with PSP 2018)

First, can you confirm that you are using PSP 7 (i.e., the old Jasc version) and not Corel's PSP X7?

The clone brush works fine for me in PSP 2018 on B&W images that show a pixel color depth of RGB-8bits/pixel in the image Information menu item. So I do not know what the Corel rep was talking about when he said that this was a bug. Granted, there might have been a confusion as to terms because when we generally speak of B&W images we're usually speaking of a greyscale image with color information that is in shades of grey - which is what you now seem to be describing - rather than greyscale with only intensity/lightness information (the clone tool won't work as expected on the latter). True Black and White only has black (or one color) and is best used for text or non-gradient line drawings (those without shading).

So could you please check the Image Information of the image(s) you're having problems with in PSP 2018with the clone brush, because it works fine for me. If your images are actually color images (in that they have distinct colors rather than just shades of grey) then they are generally just called color images and certainly the clone tool will work with them. And if actually color images, I'm not sure why you and/or the Corel rep were mentioning B&W images at all, because it wouldn't be relevant. So are you bringing up two separate issues in this post - i.e., a problem with the clone brush in PSP2018 when working with B&W images AND a second issue being changes in color cast in PSP7?

Do you know of any other way that I can just put the program back to factory default?

You can reset PSP by starting the program while holding down the Shift key until it starts with a prompt asking if you're sure you want to reset it.

EDIT: Also, make sure that you have Color Management turned off in PSP7 (assuming PSP7 has the Color Management option). It can cause weird and unexpected results.

[MickG]

Kyle Cedrick De Mesa.docx

(16.9 KiB) Downloaded 393 times

I think I have to apologize for not explaining my problems clearly enough. The B&W images for which I need the use of the 'clone brush' in PSP 2018 are scanned negatives of Tri-X 400 film - the word 'grayscale' was used by the Corel support agent who was assigned to my 'case', I never use 'grayscale' knowingly, I just thought that might be a Corel term for B&W! 'The clone tool in PSP 2018 didn't work on my B&W images' is what I should have said...

The 'strange color-cast' situation is something that's happening in PSP 7 (which I reinstalled because of the problem with PSP 2018)

First, can you confirm that you are using PSP 7 (i.e., the old Jasc version) and not Corel's PSP X7?

The clone brush works fine for me in PSP 2018 on B&W images that show a pixel color depth of RGB-8bits/pixel in the image Information menu item. So I do not know what the Corel rep was talking about when he said that this was a bug. Granted, there might have been a confusion as to terms because when we generally speak of B&W images we're usually speaking of a greyscale image with color information that is in shades of grey - which is what you now seem to be describing - rather than greyscale with only intensity/lightness information (the clone tool won't work as expected on the latter). True Black and White only has black (or one color) and is best used for text or non-gradient line drawings (those without shading).

So could you please check the Image Information of the image(s) you're having problems with in PSP 2018with the clone brush, because it works fine for me. If your images are actually color images (in that they have distinct colors rather than just shades of grey) then they are generally just called color images and certainly the clone tool will work with them. And if actually color images, I'm not sure why you and/or the Corel rep were mentioning B&W images at all, because it wouldn't be relevant. So are you bringing up two separate issues in this post - i.e., a problem with the clone brush in PSP2018 when working with B&W images AND a second issue being changes in color cast in PSP7?

Do you know of any other way that I can just put the program back to factory default?

You can reset PSP by starting the program while holding down the Shift key until it starts with a prompt asking if you're sure you want to reset it.

EDIT: Also, make sure that you have Color Management turned off in PSP7 (assuming PSP7 has the Color Management option). It can cause weird and unexpected results.

Hi JoeB and thanks again.

Actually I have PaintShop Pro X7 ?? It was/is bundled with Roxio Creator 4. And it had no problems - at least I never found any - prior to this. I didn't realize there were more than one versions...?? I tried it with Color Management on and off...with same results. I'll try the reset. (Update) The reset didn't change anything. I've attached a screenshot of the images. As I said they are color files - even though monochromatic - the 'purple-y' ones SHOULD be either a black sky or a blue sky.

Regarding the clone tool not working in PSP 2018. The images on which I tried to use the clone tool were scans from an Epson V550 scanner, (settings) Film Type: B&W Negative Film: IMAGE TYPE: 16-BIT GRAYSCALE, at 2400 dpi resolution...the scans are saved and edited as TIFF's. I use the same scanner with the same settings with the PSP Pro X7 and the clone tool works fine (if not for the strange color phenom we probably wouldn't be having this conversation! )...and with other software. In PSP 2018 when I try to clone, I right-click a point and when I move the brush over the area to be changed there is either a series of very fine lines (for the length of the stroke) or just a 'smear' - for want of a better word - and the source point circle will disappear...I tried uninstalling/reinstalling twice and I was surprised when the tech said what he said (I've attached a copy of the e-mail, I hope that's OK)

I've actually signed Corel's - what do they call it - the 'destruction' clause, promising to destroy the PSP 2018 software. I haven't done that yet, but I'm wondering, if I try to re-install it can I expect to have the FBI or MI6 knocking at my door ...I think I'll risk it and take another, closer look.

Thanks again

MickG

Kyle Cedrick De Mesa.docx

(16.9 KiB) Downloaded 393 times

[JoeB]

First, please change your profile information to show that you are using Paintshop Pro X7, not 7. There is a big difference between the programs and we need to know which program you are actually using to try to provide help.

Also, you still haven't answered the question I've asked twice. Have you gone to the menu item Image>Image Information and checked what it says about pixel/color depth and, if so, what does it say? You can also provide a screenshot of that menu dropdown. You have to do that with an image open in the workspace that specifically does not work with the clone tool in PSP2018. In other words, if you have already done some processing with it in PSP X7 it may not have saved with the same pixel/color depth as whatever copy you were having issues with in PSP2018, so we need to see the image information from the original. The information you keep providing is not that being requested and does not answer that important question.

[MickG]

First, please change your profile information to show that you are using Paintshop Pro X7, not 7. There is a big difference between the programs and we need to know which program you are actually using to try to provide help.

Also, you still haven't answered the question I've asked twice. Have you gone to the menu item Image>Image Information and checked what it says about pixel/color depth and, if so, what does it say? You can also provide a screenshot of that menu dropdown. You have to do that with an image open in the workspace that specifically does not work with the clone tool in PSP2018. In other words, if you have already done some processing with it in PSP X7 it may not have saved with the same pixel/color depth as whatever copy you were having issues with in PSP2018, so we need to see the image information from the original. The information you keep providing is not that being requested and does not answer that important question.

Hi, thanks again.

I apologize for my profile showing the wrong PSP, but I really didn't know there was more than one version.

The reason I didn't answer the question is/was, as I tried to explain, the fact that I had removed PSP 2018 from my computer (I took it for granted that what the Corel tech told me was accurate and the program is not going to meet my needs) and I got a refund from Corel and promised not to use the program again. However, I just reinstalled it and used it again to check the information that you asked for. (If there is some way that it can be fixed to meet my needs I will willingly repay for the program).

Here are 2 screenshots

The information does show the image to be 'grey' but as I said, I've not had any problems with cloning out dust spots and such from scanned negatives before.

Anyway, thanks again

MickG

UPDATE: I tried scanning the B&W negatives as 48bit color negatives and lo and behold the cloner tool works as expected! Of course it's more work converting them back to B&W (haven't tried that yet) but it's better than nothing I guess. I never would have thought of this. Thanks JoeB.

MickG

[hartpaul]

I used your grey scale image to show the simple steps you need to do to allow you to clone:
1. Image > Increase Color Depth and choose either RGB 8 bits or RGB 16 bits - when it is changed you should see no obvious difference in your greyscale image.

2. The second cropped image shows how i have used the clone tool to clone part of the bee without any problems.
Should you still want it back as greyscale again after processing the spots then you can do Image > Greyscale.

[JoeB]

Yes, the problem is caused by your scanning using the Greyscale option. As I suggested in my first post (and as @hartpaul has concurred with) you just have to increase the color depth to RGB color depth for PSP2018 clone brush to work with it. So for any existing B&W images you have that show as grey in Image Information you should and just increase the color depth to RGB 16bit and cloning will work fine in PSP2018.

And when scanning from now on, using 48bit color is your best choice because that will give you 16bits per RGB channel (when scanning greyscale you're getting 16bits on one channel) so you'll have maximum digital information preserved. I can't think of any reason why you would want or have to convert the image back to actual greyscale color depth, because it generally won't affect the printed output unless there is some color cast to the image, and you can guarantee that there isn't by simply using Hue Saturation Lightness and moving the Saturation slider all the way down. The only advantage to greyscale color depth is that the resultant file size will be smaller.

And a final tip. If scanning a color image that you want scanned as B&W you should still scan it as 48bit color and then, in PSP, again just reduce the saturation as mentioned above. This will again ensure that you have the maximum digital information in the image to work with.

You (and Corel) were correct, however, that PSP2018 won't clone with an image that has greyscale color depth while X9 will do so, so the clone tool must work differently than I thought because I didn't expect it to work with X9 either. So, in that respect, it is a bug in PSP2018. However, you now have an easy workaround.

[MickG]

My thanks to JoeB and hartpaul.

I just changed the color depth to 16bits RGB in Image Information and the clone tool works as expected - actually better than I expected - and doing it this way is less work than scanning as a 48bit Color Negative and then having to remove the resultant color cast; (that's what I meant when I said 'convert back to B&W', not actually change the color depth back to greyscale).

Hopefully Corel will fix the bug, but till then this is a pretty simple work-around.

Thanks again for your assistance - I'm sure there'll be more questions though, hopefully not too many!

MickG

[JoeB]

My thanks to JoeB and hartpaul.

I just changed the color depth to 16bits RGB in Image Information and the clone tool works as expected - actually better than I expected - and doing it this way is less work than scanning as a 48bit Color Negative and then having to remove the resultant color cast; (that's what I meant when I said 'convert back to B&W', not actually change the color depth back to greyscale).

Hopefully Corel will fix the bug, but till then this is a pretty simple work-around.

Thanks again for your assistance - I'm sure there'll be more questions though, hopefully not too many!

MickG

Glad you now have it sorted. If by "actually better than expected" you mean that the cloned bits and pieces look better or sharper then when you were working with greyscale images in X9 that would be because you are now working with 48bit RGB (16bits per channel) rather than only the 16bits for one channel with the actual greyscale images in X9. Although I understand that it's not always that people notice too much difference on their monitors. If you just mean that this process works more efficiently than you had expected then glad it works for you!

[hartpaul]

However MickG had two problems and so far we have concentrated on the easier one the cloning in blavk and white / greyscale.
There is still the problem of the moon images and sky images that are showing variation in color and apparently this was the reason for the title of the thread. Shame on you MickG for putting two problems in the same thread

I note that the images are showing in Manage mode thumbnails. Do you still have this problem after resetting and reinstalling.
in the second row you have three images light blue, darker blue and purple. Is there any difference in the shooting details of these three images. Were you using the camera's auto white balance?
I note with the image information that we are looking at NEF files (raw files for Nikon?)

Quick solution - change to Canon cameras
If you load those images into the Edit workspace do they still show as odd colors?

Personally I process my Canon raw images in the Canon specialised program for their raw images - Digital Photo Professional. I can convert them to tifs (lossless) or high quality jpgs for further use in PSP.

[MickG]

However MickG had two problems and so far we have concentrated on the easier one the cloning in blavk and white / greyscale.
There is still the problem of the moon images and sky images that are showing variation in color and apparently this was the reason for the title of the thread. Shame on you MickG for putting two problems in the same thread

I note that the images are showing in Manage mode thumbnails. Do you still have this problem after resetting and reinstalling.
in the second row you have three images light blue, darker blue and purple. Is there any difference in the shooting details of these three images. Were you using the camera's auto white balance?
I note with the image information that we are looking at NEF files (raw files for Nikon?)

Quick solution - change to Canon cameras
If you load those images into the Edit workspace do they still show as odd colors?

Personally I process my Canon raw images in the Canon specialised program for their raw images - Digital Photo Professional. I can convert them to tifs (lossless) or high quality jpgs for further use in PSP.

Hi hartpaul,

Thanks for your help.

Actually, I started two separate threads. The first one was for the color cast problem in PSP Pro X7 (which at the time I thought was PSP 7 ). Then I noticed a thread started by someone else asking 'what do you like about PSP2018'...in which I mentioned my problems with the clone tool. Apparently JoeB saw my postings on both threads and from there we started talking about BOTH problems in the 'Strange color cast' thread...

Anyway, when I reinstalled PSP2018 in order to find the answer to JoeB's question, I uninstalled PSP X7; I didn't want to create a conflict by having the 2 programs installed at the same time. But to answer your questions (because I would like to get that problem resolved; do you think there would be a conflict if I installed PSP X7 at the same time as PSP2018?) the problem WAS there in Edit mode, AND even after uninstalling and reinstalling a total of 3 times AND after trying the reset (hold down shift while opening the program) suggested by JoeB.

The shooting details are the same for each frame (I don't mean that 'Image Information' showed the same details - unfortunately I didn't think to check there ) But apart from the obvious difference of daylight to dark. I did bracket the last 3 frames and possibly a couple more, manually, shooting metered, two stops under and one stop over. The WB was at daylight for all the frames. They are indeed Nikon's NEF raw files (the best Raw files on the planet )

I always get my files out of the camera using Nikon's View NX2 software which (I find) is very reliable and stable. If there are any really basic exposure or tonal problems out of the camera, I might do basic adjustments in View NX2, but in the case of the Afternoon Moon shots I made no adjustments there (and FYI, when I open the files now in View NX2 and for that matter in Aftershot 3 and Windows photo viewer they open up correctly, as shot!) I usually send my files to the editing software as RAW files.

The only thing I can think of is that somewhere along the process, I must have clicked something by mistake - but if I did that, how come the files are unchanged everywhere else

If it's 'safe' to install PSP X7 while I have PSP2018 installed I will try again and get the Image Information (I wish I'd have had the presence of mind to do that before ) do you think it would be safe?

Thanks again,

MickG

[JoeB]

This is only an answer to one of your questions. You can safely install as many versions of PSP as you wish (some people havemore than half a dozen, some going back to the old JASC versions). I have all versions from X7 to 2018 (both 32bit and 64bit) installed. There is no conflict whatsoever among them and they install in their own folders. Having different versions of PSP installed would not be the reason for the issues you have run into.

[MickG]

This is only an answer to one of your questions. You can safely install as many versions of PSP as you wish (some people havemore than half a dozen, some going back to the old JASC versions). I have all versions from X7 to 2018 (both 32bit and 64bit) installed. There is no conflict whatsoever among them and they install in their own folders. Having different versions of PSP installed would not be the reason for the issues you have run into.

Thanks JoeB,

(I didn't think that having two different versions of PSP was causing the present issues with PSP X7...I've never had more than one version installed at the same time...but I was concerned with a possible conflict if I did.)

Thanks for the above info, I will re-install PSP X7 and see what Image Information shows on those moon images, I'd love to get to the bottom of this mystery.

MickG