I've been using MF4 for a couple of months now and I've got a couple of quirks I can't get sorted out. I'm recording mpgs from a tv card (see specs below) and using MF (Add/Edit Media Window) to Fast Export sections. I'm wondering if my mpg recording settings might be causing these two issues which are a little tedious:
1. When I'm setting "Mark In" and "Mark Out" points the true frame is a few frames prior to the frame showing in the large preview window. The preview thumbnail show the actual frame for the mark in, and that is where the extracted file will start. (I'm using CBR mpgs, I noticed the preview variation was more extreme and more inconsistent with VBRs.) I then have to advance the Mark In a few 30ths of a second to get the actual point I'm looking for. I find the Mark out position by using the Mark In and Thumbnail, then I move the Mark In back and type the timecode position and select Mark Out.
2. Frequently when I Fast Extract the selection I will only get a tiny mpg file (3 to 10 meg) which has only the first second or two and the last second or two of the selection - it's missing the majority in between. To get the actual selection I then have to change the Mark In position, usually anywhere from 1 to 6 "30ths of a second" (the last 2 digits of the timecode).
Abbreviated system specs, hopefully enough:
Pentium 4 2.8 ghz, Intel 875PBZ motherboard, all at stock/no overclocking, hyperthreading enabled. ATI All In Wonder 9600XT video card. Plenty of RAM, trust me.
Since I haven't seen anything about this on this board, I'm thinking it might be my mpg settings within the ATI capture software and maybe someone can spot what I'm using that MF might not like. Here's what I'm using:
MPEG-2, NTSC(525), 720x480. Encoding: Interlaced.
Audio: 48,000KHz, 16bit, stereo
Frame sequence settings: I BB P BB P BB I ...
Number of P Frames in Group: 2
Number of B Frames in Subgroup: 2
Closed Group of Pictures: (selected/checked)
Constant Bit Rate at 8 M Bits/Second, Motion Estimation Quality of 50
Audio Encoding Parameters of 384Kbps
Video Soap: Light
I'm particularly suspicious of the Frame sequence settings, P Frames, B frames, and Closed Group of pictures settings but I really don't know what might be preferable for MF to work at its best.
If someones sees what might be causing my issues, or has any other ideas of what might be causing them, I'd appreciate the input.
Thanks.
Are my mpg settings causing my Fast Export and Preview probs
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Creatively Challenged
Are my mpg settings causing my Fast Export and Preview probs
Last edited by Creatively Challenged on Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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maddrummer3301
- Posts: 2507
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:24 pm
- Location: US
Mine work, same card.
Why is your compression 50%?
Using the ATI recorder and imported into MF3/4:
Mpeg2 - DVD
Encoding = Interlaced
FrameSize = 720x480
GOP's = Checked (Yes, leave checked)
P=4
B=2
Max_Bite_Rate = 8000
Average_Bit_Rate = 6000-7000
Compression = 100%
Audio = Mpeg layer2 224kbs
Video_Soap = Light
MD
Why is your compression 50%?
Using the ATI recorder and imported into MF3/4:
Mpeg2 - DVD
Encoding = Interlaced
FrameSize = 720x480
GOP's = Checked (Yes, leave checked)
P=4
B=2
Max_Bite_Rate = 8000
Average_Bit_Rate = 6000-7000
Compression = 100%
Audio = Mpeg layer2 224kbs
Video_Soap = Light
MD
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Creatively Challenged
Thanks for the reply.
Why is your compression 50%?
Like a lot of my other settings it's just something I picked up while trying to figure out where to set things. (I take it that your term "compression" is equal to my term "Motion Estimation Quality".) I wouldn't presume to try to justify any of my settings at this point.
What I'm hoping to do right now is just start with a group of settings that someone else is using well with MF and then tweak from there if I want, while keeping an eye on it. Randomly trying different settings to see if they fixed my issues just wasn't getting me anywhere.
So I'll start with exactly what you've listed and see if it does the trick.
Thanks.
Why is your compression 50%?
Like a lot of my other settings it's just something I picked up while trying to figure out where to set things. (I take it that your term "compression" is equal to my term "Motion Estimation Quality".) I wouldn't presume to try to justify any of my settings at this point.
What I'm hoping to do right now is just start with a group of settings that someone else is using well with MF and then tweak from there if I want, while keeping an eye on it. Randomly trying different settings to see if they fixed my issues just wasn't getting me anywhere.
So I'll start with exactly what you've listed and see if it does the trick.
Thanks.
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maddrummer3301
- Posts: 2507
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:24 pm
- Location: US
Yes, compression/quality. Mine set at 100%.
Ulead and others like mpg2 audio at 224kbs. Editing seems to be easier.
Dolby at 256kbs seems to be the standard for dolby but I've made
192kbs videos that work well. 384kbs and higher is usually for 5.1 audio.
My 9600XT records excellent video. Better to record using the ATI software than others. The ATI software
is written to access more features on the chipsets. Other software programs will still work like MF3/4.
The recording software is very good.
Leave the taskmgr on the desktop and monitor processor usage while recording. Helps to learn what's going on in the background. If you use the
VCR mode (ati proprietory format). Then import that into the library, right-click on it and select "Save as Mpg2" is a method to convert from their proprietory format.
The P=4 and B=2 is also the default that ulead is using. At least that's what is in the configuration files for the recording templates.
GOP's should be on for editing & seeking.
Using the ATI "Extended Desktop" you can't record in MF3/4. You may have to disable that to record in MF3/4 if you try it. Otherwise, failed to
built preview graph will pop up. You can activate the 2nd monitor under
the "Advanced -> Displays tab" then set "OverLay -> Theatre/Full Screen" will work.
I've switched from ATI to Nvidia for the most part on the other systems using a PCI "All In wonder Pro" for analog recording on those desktops.
MD
Ulead and others like mpg2 audio at 224kbs. Editing seems to be easier.
Dolby at 256kbs seems to be the standard for dolby but I've made
192kbs videos that work well. 384kbs and higher is usually for 5.1 audio.
My 9600XT records excellent video. Better to record using the ATI software than others. The ATI software
is written to access more features on the chipsets. Other software programs will still work like MF3/4.
The recording software is very good.
Leave the taskmgr on the desktop and monitor processor usage while recording. Helps to learn what's going on in the background. If you use the
VCR mode (ati proprietory format). Then import that into the library, right-click on it and select "Save as Mpg2" is a method to convert from their proprietory format.
The P=4 and B=2 is also the default that ulead is using. At least that's what is in the configuration files for the recording templates.
GOP's should be on for editing & seeking.
Using the ATI "Extended Desktop" you can't record in MF3/4. You may have to disable that to record in MF3/4 if you try it. Otherwise, failed to
built preview graph will pop up. You can activate the 2nd monitor under
the "Advanced -> Displays tab" then set "OverLay -> Theatre/Full Screen" will work.
I've switched from ATI to Nvidia for the most part on the other systems using a PCI "All In wonder Pro" for analog recording on those desktops.
MD
Re: Are my mpg settings causing my Fast Export and Preview p
im not sure if this could be related but might as well say it. when you adjust the jog bar to the frame that you want, it will always look for the I-frame. this might be the problem you are experiencing when you adjust for the mark points.Creatively Challenged wrote: 1. When I'm setting "Mark In" and "Mark Out" points the true frame is a few frames prior to the frame showing in the large preview window. The preview thumbnail show the actual frame for the mark in, and that is where the extracted file will start. (I'm using CBR mpgs, I noticed the preview variation was more extreme and more inconsistent with VBRs.) I then have to advance the Mark In a few 30ths of a second to get the actual point I'm looking for. I find the Mark out position by using the Mark In and Thumbnail, then I move the Mark In back and type the timecode position and select Mark Out.
Who? Me?
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Creatively Challenged
Maddrummer:
Thanks again for the input. Unfortunately the new mpg settings didn't resolve my issues. I also experienced what I noted in the original post - the preview variation is actually more inconsistent with the VBR's than the CBR's.
Ploggy:
You know, I've wondered about the I frames and the grouping settings. I'm also wondering if that could be related to the abbreviated files I frequently get from fast extracts (Item #2 in the original post).
Should I even be able to pick specific mark ins and mark outs using the timecode meter, or am I going about this all wrong? I usually get at least one bad extract out of every 5 or six that I try to select that way, then have to adjust the mark in spot on the bad ones by a few 30ths of a second until I hit a spot that will give me a full file.
I'll keep trying to find any software or system settings that might be getting in the way of this. There isn't anything obvious.
Thanks.
Thanks again for the input. Unfortunately the new mpg settings didn't resolve my issues. I also experienced what I noted in the original post - the preview variation is actually more inconsistent with the VBR's than the CBR's.
Ploggy:
You know, I've wondered about the I frames and the grouping settings. I'm also wondering if that could be related to the abbreviated files I frequently get from fast extracts (Item #2 in the original post).
Should I even be able to pick specific mark ins and mark outs using the timecode meter, or am I going about this all wrong? I usually get at least one bad extract out of every 5 or six that I try to select that way, then have to adjust the mark in spot on the bad ones by a few 30ths of a second until I hit a spot that will give me a full file.
I'll keep trying to find any software or system settings that might be getting in the way of this. There isn't anything obvious.
Thanks.
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Creatively Challenged
Sorry to bring this back up but I want to update it in case it might help someone else.
Item #1 of my original post remains. I'm thinking at this point it's exactly as ploggy said, landing on the I-frame, and that's fine.
Item #2 was resolved by uninstalling/reinstalling/updating my ATI drivers, Multimedia Center, and DVD decoder. I know that is a little vague, but I was trying to pick an ATI revision to update to. I wasn't really trying to solve the Movie Factory issue and I wasn't checking at each step to see if that issue was resolved. I suspect that the MF issue itself could have been resolved by perhaps just repairing the ATI version I was using, or maybe even just uninstalling and reinstalling the ATI DVD decoder. Anyway when I was done the mysterious "abbreviated extract" issue was resolved.
A related note is that the ATI version I settled on is still quite old - almost a year - so I doubt that it's a matter of "needing the most current drivers". I suspect that at some point some piece of software I've loaded has caused a problem with the ATI software, I know that various pieces of multimedia software can conflict with various other multimedia software, and I had loaded a few different pieces of video editing software trials as well as some that I've bought and kept. Interestingly enough after re-loading the ATI s/w my WinAmp also decided it could play mpg's again - at some point it had decided it couldn't.
So anyway there you have it. Thanks again.
Item #1 of my original post remains. I'm thinking at this point it's exactly as ploggy said, landing on the I-frame, and that's fine.
Item #2 was resolved by uninstalling/reinstalling/updating my ATI drivers, Multimedia Center, and DVD decoder. I know that is a little vague, but I was trying to pick an ATI revision to update to. I wasn't really trying to solve the Movie Factory issue and I wasn't checking at each step to see if that issue was resolved. I suspect that the MF issue itself could have been resolved by perhaps just repairing the ATI version I was using, or maybe even just uninstalling and reinstalling the ATI DVD decoder. Anyway when I was done the mysterious "abbreviated extract" issue was resolved.
A related note is that the ATI version I settled on is still quite old - almost a year - so I doubt that it's a matter of "needing the most current drivers". I suspect that at some point some piece of software I've loaded has caused a problem with the ATI software, I know that various pieces of multimedia software can conflict with various other multimedia software, and I had loaded a few different pieces of video editing software trials as well as some that I've bought and kept. Interestingly enough after re-loading the ATI s/w my WinAmp also decided it could play mpg's again - at some point it had decided it couldn't.
So anyway there you have it. Thanks again.
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maddrummer3301
- Posts: 2507
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:24 pm
- Location: US
There is also a recent update to MF4 that you should download and install.
Fixes some problems from the previous update and original installation.
I also ran across a bad set of ATI drivers about 1 1/2 years ago.
The program was creating non-compliant mpeg2 file that couldn't seek
properly.
At least on my system once I find a set of ATI drivers that work I usually stay
with them. Most of ATI's updates are for playing games and fixing game bugs.
Hope this helps,
MD
Fixes some problems from the previous update and original installation.
I also ran across a bad set of ATI drivers about 1 1/2 years ago.
The program was creating non-compliant mpeg2 file that couldn't seek
properly.
At least on my system once I find a set of ATI drivers that work I usually stay
with them. Most of ATI's updates are for playing games and fixing game bugs.
Hope this helps,
MD