Not enough memory to complete this operation

[jparnold]

Hello
Yes that is the error message I receive when I attempt to do ANYTHING with BMP image files with a size of 700Mb and larger even though I have 8Gb memory installed.

Is this a problem because of the amount of memory I have or because I am using PSP X2 which is only a 32bit program?
I have Windows 7 64 bit installed so will an upgrade to a PSP version which has a 64bit version eliminate this error?

Thanks.

[LeviFiction]

Well a 32-bit program can only access at most 3GB of RAM. But BMPs usually being uncompressed at 700MB should still only be taking up 700MB of memory or so. So I really have no idea why PSP would be claiming there isn't enough memory.

Have you tried turning down the number of Undos and other memory saving tricks in PSP?

[brucet]

Didn't PSP have an image size/pixel limit in older versions?

regards

[LeviFiction]

It still does. Older versions the maximum was 32,767 wide and high. Then X3 decreased this to 10,000 for a while. Now I believe it's 40,000.
EDIT: 32-bit versions have a maximum of 20,000 pixels.

[hartpaul]

OK in absence of pixel dimensions I used X9 to save a number of BMP images abnd found that 17000 x 17000 pixels gave an image of 826 MB on disc so larger than the OP value of 700 MB.
I then loaded this file into PSP X2 (very slow) then used a paint brush to scrawl on it to make it a bit different. Then saved it - no problems , saved as 826 MB as well.
However I was not running any other memory hungry program at the same time.
So the OP might try closing down all other programs and only open PSP X2 and see if the problem persists.
I am on Windows 10.

[jparnold]

Thanks everyone,

In reply but not in any particular order -

I too considered that having 9GB memory should 'handle' editing a 700Mb image file.

I was not running any other software at the time ( I did consider shutting down unnecessary Windows background processes to see if it fixed the out of memory but thought I would ask here first).

The image I was trying to use is 13312 X 14080 RGB (BMP). Please note that I CAN draw something on the image and save without a problem. It is when I attempt to add ANY type of LAYER that I have the problem. Maybe adding layers attempts to take huge chunks of memory OR using layers with a 32 bit version is the bottleneck.
Could hartpaul try creating new layers using X9 and X2 and advise the results please.

I have 'turned down' the number of undo's to only 1 (one) and the problem continues.

Is there a FREE OLD 64bit versions of Paint Shop Pro available (maybe ones produced before Corel took over from JASC) which I could try? If so where from? I don't want to purchase the latest 64bit version if it still has the same problem.

Thanks

John

[brucet]

FWIW. I just opened PSPx8 on an old i3, Win 7 Home Premium, 64 bit, 4 gig of ram. 50 undo's.
Loaded a 4 meg jpeg. Resized it at 13312 x 14080. Then saved as a BMP. All ok. Then I added a new raster layer. Did a flood fill on that layer. Erased some of that layer to reveal the lower layer. Then did a save as. BMP won't save layers so I saved as a tiff. Just under 600 meg file. Everything worked fine. Slow but fine.

I had Firefox and Livemail open at the time with the internet on

regards

[jparnold]

Thanks brucet

I loaded my large BMP image, saved as a JPEG then closed PSP X2 loaded the JPEG images (which is a fraction of the size of the BMP image file) and tried creating a new layer. SAME problem - not enough memory.

You are using PSP X8 which I think was installed as a 64bit application (as you have W7 64 bit).
I am hoping that someone may have BOTH a recent PSP running as a 64bit application AS WELL AS an older PSP running as a 32bit application to test my theory that my problem is caused BECAUSE I am running a 32 bit PSP. If that can be 'proved' I will purchase the latest version of PSP as it will install a 64 bit version.

Can anyone either do this test OR completely verify that the 'out of memory' when attempting to create a layer using a large image is caused by the fact that I have a 32bit version of PSP and not a 64 bit version.

Thanks

John

[brucet]

John I just ran the exact same test with PSPx4 32 bit. No problems. PSPx4 is the oldest I have on this computer.

edit - keep in mind PSPx4 has a 10000 x 10000 limit.


regards

[jparnold]

Thanks brucet
It is most strange that I am having troubles. Maybe it is in the settings OR that PSPX4 can handle it better than X2.
Unless there is something in the image which is causing problems.

Hopefully someone (hartpaul who has X2) else can shed some light on this as it appears he didn't try creating another layer (where I am having problems).

[LeviFiction]

Okay I installed my copy of X2 and wow, yeah that's not performing well at all. I also got the Out of memory error with an image the size you describe. Not even a BMP, just a brand new blank image at the dimensions you listed.

I tried several different image sizes and I found that 12715x12715 is somehow too large of an image even though the program never goes above 480MB of RAM being used. But 12714x12714 is just small enough to work. Same thing happens for me in PSPPX1 and PSP8 as well. So at least on my computer all older versions are failing at that size. But PSPX8 32-bit works beautifully at your required size. As does X9 and 2018 of course.

Also none of the compatibility modes helped on my system.

[jparnold]

Thanks

You've managed to lessen the weight of my wallet by helping me decide to upgrade.
Thanks for the time you spent experimenting for me.

[hartpaul]

OK have carried out some tests closed down all other open programs that I could do. Still some background programs Firewall and virus detection.
Opened resource monitor to see what memory and CPU usage was occurring.
X2. 14000 x 15000 pixel image - used layer palette to duplicate - gave out of memory error
9000 x 9000 pixel image - was using 26% of Memory
Duplicate (now 2 layers) 33%
Duplicate (3 layers) 39%
Duplicate -- out of memory error.
So at this stage had 3 layers 9000 x 9000 and making a fourth caused an error.
New document 9000 x 9000 displayed OK and Memory usage 41%
Duplicate - Memory error.
New Document 9000 x 9000 - Out of memory error. So absolute limit of four 9000 x 9000 pixel images.

Repeated similar in X9 with 14000 x 15000 pixel image.
Was able to get at least 12 copies of layer without crashing and no signs of out of memory error
But PSP X9 gave a not responding for a period while a tmp file was written.

So if it could not have an Out of Memory error with the 32 bit version then I would suspect the 64 bit version would not produce problems.
So yes probably time to update if using large files. and multiple layers.

[jparnold]

Thanks hartpaul,
Lots of time testing you have done - much appreciated.
From another reply it appears than perhaps it is not completely whether or not you use the 32 or 64bit version but which version you are using and that X2 isn't good at managing memory.
Yes time to update and Corel are currently offering a big discount on PS 2018 Ultimate which comes bundled with Painter Essentials 5, Perfectly Clear 3 SE and After Shot 3 whatever they are. I get the impression that Corel wants owners of old version to spend some money. I am happy to oblige

[brucet]

I would caution purchasing PSP2018 until you were sure it will work on your system. I have PSPx8 on my old i3 64 bit Win 7 laptop. PSPx8 struggles. It works but struggles and often crashes or locks up. How will PSP2018 work on your system?

regards