Having problems with 60fps MTS files. What to do?

[jungleexplorer]

Please post your answer/solution as it may help other users with a similar problem

The problem here is that Youtube is using the AVC code to re-render my vidoes, which is fine for simple videos like the Mountain scene, but stinks for more complex scenes like reflective water. But youtube has a much better codec called VP9 which results in far superior quality, but they only apply this codec once, your video receive a high volume of views. But there is a way to force youtube to use the VP9 codec from the beginning. You have upscale your 1080P videos to 1440P before you upload them. This will make youtube think that the video is a UHD video and it will apply the VP9 codec to it. My problem is that VS9 does not have the settings for this and it does not allow me to set the resolution to 2560 x 1440 in the "User Defined Settings". VS jumps straight from 1080P to full 4K (3840 × 2160). I have tried upscaling the video to 4K, but the end result is that the video won't even play. All the people that I have seen do this successfully were using Sony Vega. I guess VS just can't handle it or something.

[Ken Berry]

I've stayed out of this thread since I have never posted to YouTube. But you can certainly set 2560 x 1440 as the frame size if you go to Share > Custom, and it's using 60 fps. See attached image.

[jungleexplorer]

I've stayed out of this thread since I have never posted to YouTube. But you can certainly set 2560 x 1440 as the frame size if you go to Share > Custom, and it's using 60 fps. See attached image.

Yes there is a MP4 preset that allows this, but when I have tried it, the end product is almost as bad as what youtube does to the video. I have yet to find a render setting in VS that does not degrade the video.

[Ken Berry]

Well, that is strange. I used it to up-render a 1920 x 1080 mp4 clip to 2560 x 1440, and it came out perfectly. Of course it could not look better than the original, but it was certainly equal to it. No pixelation or any other defect that I could see.

Can you make available a short piece of your own 1920 x 1080 video on a site like Dropbox which we can try out on our own computer?

[jungleexplorer]

The problem is the in order to make a short clip, I have to render the video, and that reduces the quality. I think the problem is that this video clip is so busy with fine detail in every pixel, it cannot tolorate any compresion at all. I used hand brake to render the file lossless to an MKV file. It came out at 4GB for a 3 minute video. I am uploading that to youtube to see if that will do better. Handbrake cannot upscale though, so it is still just a 1080p video.

[asik1]

The problem is the in order to make a short clip, I have to render the video, and that reduces the quality. I think the problem is that this video clip is so busy with fine detail in every pixel, it cannot tolorate any compresion at all. I used hand brake to render the file lossless to an MKV file. It came out at 4GB for a 3 minute video. I am uploading that to youtube to see if that will do better. Handbrake cannot upscale though, so it is still just a 1080p video.

So Jungle, once you will be along that stream shoot a 10 second clip.
Or... you can just take a fast 10 sec pan in your backyard it will have the same amount of difference in every frame.

[jungleexplorer]

That stream is in Colorado. I was camping there last week. I live in Texas. I have tons of video of my back yard captured with this camera, but they do not have the same problem as this clip. I think the reflective quality of a sparkling stream provides a problem for variable compression. The real mystery here is this; when I first upload a clip to youtube, it looks decent at 360, 480, and 720p resolutions. But when youtube finishes rerendering the video in 1080p, it goes to crap at all resolutions.

I have never this problem with any other video, just this one. But I have several more water clips from this trip that I want to upload to youtube, so I need to figure out how to overcome this problem. My son has Adobe Premier, so i may have to work with the video on that and see if it can handle it.

[jungleexplorer]

Okay, so I finally got a decent render out of VS in 2560 x 1440. I would say it turned out about 98% as good as the original file. I am uploading it youtube now to see if youtube will actually employ the VP9 codec to it instead of the old AVC codec. If this works, this will helpful to everyone who runs in to a problem with youtube over-compressing a good video and turning it to crap.

Youtube has changed a lot in the last 12 years since I first signed up with it. They use to have the best compression available. I used to use youtube as a render machine to compress video for use on my personal website, because I could a get much better render out of youtube then out of VS. It was a trick a lot of video people used back then. You could send your original files to youtube for processing and then download them and get a much smaller file size with no visible quality loss. Now days it's the opposite. About everything I upload suffers from over-compression and noticeable quality degradation compared to the original. Not nearly as bad as this one clip, but still noticeable. Yes, youtube is free, so what is there to complain about right? Not really, nothing is free. Just like your local TV network that offers free TV shows, Youtube makes billions off of advertising on the videos uploaded by creators. And just like TV, people don't watch TV to watch commercials, they watch it to see creator content (movies, shows, etc.), and people don't use youtube to see adverts, they go their to see creator content. So, it would make sense (at least to me) to offer higher quality videos to attract people and not reduce it to a pixelated piece of garbage.

The video in question is more then just a random shot. It is a video of an American Dipper bird diving for food in a Colorado stream. The American Dipper is the only North American Songbird that does this and few have seen it do it. I was very lucky to see it. I was actually stalking a Colorado mule deer at the time with my camcorder, when I saw these two American dippers and saw the one diving, and quickly refocused my attention on it. I may never see this again in my entire life. How many birders out there do you think there are that would like to see this video? Quite a few I bet. That is why, this video is important to offer up in the highest possible quality.

[lata]

Hi

I have been on holiday for the last week so did not contribute here but was able to download a video that you provided.
However that link does not seem to be available………..
Now I am home I can use the pc but that video or those dippers crash my programs, both X9 and X10.
Now I notice the file name as Untitled_01.m2t, unusual I thought for an original video from a camcorder. I would have expected 00004.MTS or similar.

The video uses (60P) 59.94 fps, I would have thought the quality would be very good and rendering to Same as first Clip would produce a similar quality.

Are you able to provide a link to download the original video, I realise we may be going back a step, but feel we may have missed something in editing the original video.

My thoughts on upscaling the video from 1920 to 2560 is not gonna improve the quality, silk purse and sows ear comes to mind.

Otherwise using X9 go to F6 Preferences – Edit tab – resample quality to Best
Then - General Tab, make sure Show Messages is ticked
Start a new project and add the original dipper video to the top timeline
You should see a message to match the properties ok / yes to that
Trim the video to your liking
Share – top left tick Same as Project – then drop down arrow for Same as first clip.
Render to a new video file.
The quality should be same as original.

Nice dippers, our versions have a white bib.

[Ken Berry]

You can in fact make a short clip from the original songbird video. You mark out a short length and use the scissors icon to cut at beginning and end of that length. Make sure that bit is highlighted, then go to File > Save Trimmed Video. This will save a new clip with exactly the same properties as the original. It will be in your working folder, though a thumbnail of it will appear in the Library window. You can right click on that and select Locate On Computer if you are unsure exactly which folder it has gone to.

Don't worry that the cut will affect your original video. After creating the new small clip, you can go back to the original longer clip in the timeline and simply press Ctrl+Z to undo the cut.

[jungleexplorer]

Okay. I have made the clip as instructed. It is 20 seconds long. I am currently still uploading the 2560 x 1440 version to YT (about 1 GB), so my bandwidth is tapped out right now. It should finish in about an hour and I will upload the clip to a server where you can download and work with it.

You are correct about the file name Lata (which tells me that you know your stuff). The original file name is 00076.MTS. The clip was a render to the .m2t format, that usually gives me the best results when I upload to YT (Much better then MP4 files), but not in this case for some reason.

[jungleexplorer]

Hi

I have been on holiday for the last week so did not contribute here but was able to download a video that you provided.
However that link does not seem to be available………..
Now I am home I can use the pc but that video or those dippers crash my programs, both X9 and X10.
Now I notice the file name as Untitled_01.m2t, unusual I thought for an original video from a camcorder. I would have expected 00004.MTS or similar.

The video uses (60P) 59.94 fps, I would have thought the quality would be very good and rendering to Same as first Clip would produce a similar quality.

Are you able to provide a link to download the original video, I realise we may be going back a step, but feel we may have missed something in editing the original video.

My thoughts on upscaling the video from 1920 to 2560 is not gonna improve the quality, silk purse and sows ear comes to mind.

Otherwise using X9 go to F6 Preferences – Edit tab – resample quality to Best
Then - General Tab, make sure Show Messages is ticked
Start a new project and add the original dipper video to the top timeline
You should see a message to match the properties ok / yes to that
Trim the video to your liking
Share – top left tick Same as Project – then drop down arrow for Same as first clip.
Render to a new video file.
The quality should be same as original.

Nice dippers, our versions have a white bib.

You can in fact make a short clip from the original songbird video. You mark out a short length and use the scissors icon to cut at beginning and end of that length. Make sure that bit is highlighted, then go to File > Save Trimmed Video. This will save a new clip with exactly the same properties as the original. It will be in your working folder, though a thumbnail of it will appear in the Library window. You can right click on that and select Locate On Computer if you are unsure exactly which folder it has gone to.

Don't worry that the cut will affect your original video. After creating the new small clip, you can go back to the original longer clip in the timeline and simply press Ctrl+Z to undo the cut.

Okay, I got the clip of the original uploaded to my dropbox. Here is a link where you can download it for local view. The dropbox preview is garbage.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbi0635bzgdoj ... 1.MTS?dl=0

[jungleexplorer]

Youtube has finished processing the 1440P upscaled version of my 1080p video and it did in fact use the VP9 codec, which did result in a far superior quality video to the old AVC codec it was using. So this technique does work to get the VP9 codec. Although the video is much better then it was, it is no where close to the original quality, but I guess it will have to do. Thanks for all the help.

Here is the full video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-h6Jx8rx10

[lata]

Hi

That video on YT is terrible, really bad quality.
I have uploaded HD video to YT without problems, one as 1280 x 720 but still classed as HD
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=4CjBz2Wg7WI
This was recorded as 1920 x 1080 50P, rendered to 1280 x 720 x 50P to reduce file size, then uploaded to YT, not a lot wrong there.

But uploading the sample 00076-1.MTS without further editing is terrible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmSx_gMa_dM

I also uploaded to Vimeo
https://vimeo.com/232216745

I have to say I am having problems with my broadband speed but even so comparing with the first link above, which plays ok.

I just do not know why your video, the 000076 gives poor quality when uploaded to YT?
Certainly I can appreciate the quality problem you are having????

[jungleexplorer]

Hi

That video on YT is terrible, really bad quality.
I have uploaded HD video to YT without problems, one as 1280 x 720 but still classed as HD
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=4CjBz2Wg7WI
This was recorded as 1920 x 1080 50P, rendered to 1280 x 720 x 50P to reduce file size, then uploaded to YT, not a lot wrong there.

But uploading the sample 00076-1.MTS without further editing is terrible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmSx_gMa_dM

I also uploaded to Vimeo
https://vimeo.com/232216745

I have to say I am having problems with my broadband speed but even so comparing with the first link above, which plays ok.

I just do not know why your video, the 000076 gives poor quality when uploaded to YT?
Certainly I can appreciate the quality problem you are having????

Thanks. It is a real mystery. The Zoom Test video out of same camera at the same settings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LeJv3Ckrow) turns out great when uploaded to youtube, but the Dipper video turns out like complete garbage, an the VP9 youtube codec is twice as good as the AVC, but it still looks awful. I just don't understand it. I can understand the complexity of the running water, but goof grief. We are talking about a complete failure to handle this situation. I did a youtube search for "Peaceful Stream" and found many other videos of similar scenes that looked awesome. I don't understand what the problem is here. I do know that even VS struggles to render this scene without degrading the quality a little bit, but nothing compared to what youtube is doing. But VS is $70 program and you would think that a multi-billion dollar company like YT would have a little better software?

I am going to try working with it in Premier. Maybe I can convert it to something else without losing quality and try that. What would you recommend? I am running out of ideas.