Having problems with 60fps MTS files. What to do?

[jungleexplorer]

I have a Panasonic HC-V180 Camcorder that takes really good quality video and can record 1080P HD videos at 60 fps, which works better for fast moving subjects. My problem is that when render these videos, then never look as good as the original. And when I upload them to Youtube, holy crap! They turn out worse then VGA videos taken on an Motorola flip phone, if even that good. Even if I upload the original file to youtube it ends up like crap. So I have tried to render the videos to different formats in VS9X, but that too completely destroys the video quality. I mean, really bad here. I just don't know what the problem is here or where to start fixing it. This problem only seems to occur with 60fps videos and not 30fps videos out of the same camera. Any ideas on what might be causing this?

I have uploaded a screen shot of the original video file properties.

[Ken Berry]

My problem is that when render these videos, then never look as good as the original.

You don't say what/how you are rendering those videos to. Normally, with videos with those properties, I would go to Share and select "Same As First Clip" if one of those videos was in fact first in the timeline; or else "Same As Project Settings". But this in turn would depend on making sure in Preferences > General, that the box beside "Show message when inserting first clip into timeline" is ticked. In a new project, when you insert the first clip you should get a message asking if you want the project properties to match those of the clip. You of course say OK. Then when you go to Share > Same as Project Settings, you should get a rendered video looking exactly the same quality as the originals.

[jungleexplorer]

Using "Same as first clip" has the best results for local rendering, but as I said before, even uploading the original unedited, unrendered file to youtube results in an attocity of quality loss. Thus the need to render it to a differnent format then the original file, as I explained.

[aljimenez]

How about describing what the bad quality is in Youtube, or even provide a link to a sample? I use Youtube all the time and it always re-compresses and it's never as good as what you play in your pc.

[jungleexplorer]

I thought I did describe the quality, ""when I upload them to Youtube, holy crap! They turn out worse then VGA videos taken on an Motorola flip phone, if even that good." Somehow I feel like I am failing to communicate here, because you are the second person to respond and ask for something that I already covered in my original post. It's like you guys can't see what I am writting or something. What is going on here?

Just so you know, I have been using youtube since 2005 and have 1200 subscribers to my channel. I know a little about how youtube "re-compresses" video. I know what is the normal loss in quality, and what is not. I am telling you that these super high quality videos that I am uploading are being literally destroyed beyond anything I have ever seen before. They were so bad I immediately deleted them from my channel. I will upload a sample for you to see what I am talking about even though I fail to see how that will provide any useful information that will help solve the problem, other then satisfying your curiosity that I am not lying about how bad they are. Try to remember when you watch this video that the original that was uploaded was extremely high quality with zero pixelation. This small 25 second clip was rendered in VS9X using the "Same as fist clip" render setting. The render quality is about 98% as good as the original file. I only did not upload the original file because that would take all night to complete.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6chlmM4HL7w

The quality of this video after upload to youtube is atrocious. Even at 1080P60 HD, it is unwatchable.

[asik1]

As you write Jungle, I don't see major problem in the X9 render.
So it looks as YouTube codec can't handle such high level of frame data difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1VvhcN4eTg

[jungleexplorer]

As you write Jungle, I don't see major problem in the X9 render.
So it looks as YouTube codec can't handle such high level of frame data difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1VvhcN4eTg

It is not the format or the frame rate. If this were the case, then all 1080p60 video would be crap like mine and they are not. You can find millions of 1080p60 videos on youtube that are perfect. The problem, I believe, is related to the water scene. Last night I uploaded another video of a mountain scene captured with the same camera in the same format. It turned out fine. So the problem is the scene (or the content). It appears that youtube's compression engine is using Variable Bit rate and is interpreting the water are as an area where it can apply massive compression. I can see a lot of compression pixelation in the video you linked to as well, although not even close the amount to my video; but your video and mine are two completely different videos. Yours is a bright day scene of a waterfall. Mine is a dark shaded scene of a sparkly stream. But there must be a way to over come this because, there are plenty of water videos on youtube that look great.

Here is the mountain scene video taken with the same camcorder at the same settings as the other stream video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LeJv3Ckrow

[aljimenez]

I thought I did describe the quality, ""when I upload them to Youtube, holy crap! They turn out worse then VGA videos taken on an Motorola flip phone, if even that good." Somehow I feel like I am failing to communicate here, because you are the second person to respond and ask for something that I already covered in my original post. It's like you guys can't see what I am writting or something. What is going on here?

Nothing is "going on here", no need to get upset with people who are trying to help. You keep this up and nobody is going to help you.

I was looking for a better description of what you see as the quality problem, something like images breaking up, or sound, or poor resolution, colors, etc.

I am still having problems seeing where VS is the problem. If you upload an original video clip without going through VS, does the Youtube video plays to your satisfaction? If you render same as your video clip, does Youtube play that to your satisfaction? I fail to see much to complain about the Youtube video link you provided. So perhaps I won't be able to help you achieve what you want.

[jungleexplorer]

I thought I did describe the quality, ""when I upload them to Youtube, holy crap! They turn out worse then VGA videos taken on an Motorola flip phone, if even that good." Somehow I feel like I am failing to communicate here, because you are the second person to respond and ask for something that I already covered in my original post. It's like you guys can't see what I am writting or something. What is going on here?

Nothing is "going on here", no need to get upset with people who are trying to help. You keep this up and nobody is going to help you.

I was looking for a better description of what you see as the quality problem, something like images breaking up, or sound, or poor resolution, colors, etc.

I am still having problems seeing where VS is the problem. If you upload an original video clip without going through VS, does the Youtube video plays to your satisfaction? If you render same as your video clip, does Youtube play that to your satisfaction? I fail to see much to complain about the Youtube video link you provided. So perhaps I won't be able to help you achieve what you want.

I am not trying to upset you, but it is upsetting to me when I have to keep answering the same dang questions over and over again because people do not take the time to even read what I have already written. Try not to be offended here, but you did it again. You asked a question that I have already answered, not once, but TWICE already. You asked, If you upload an original video clip without going through VS, does the Youtube video plays to your satisfaction?

Here are quotes from my original post and second post that already answered that question. Quote from Original post: Even if I upload the original file to youtube it ends up like crap.. Quote from my second post: as I said before, even uploading the original unedited, unrendered file to youtube results in an atrocity of quality loss.

If me asking you to read what I have already posted and not ask me the same questions over and over again offends you, I am sorry. If you don't want to help me because of it, well there is nothing I can do about that. If I write an answer and you don't read it, how is that my fault? I am simply asking you to read what I have already written and not ask me questions I have already answered. Why is that offensive to you? Moving on now.

In an attempt go forward; let me ask you this. You said: " I fail to see much to complain about the Youtube video link you provided.. Are you saying here that the video looks fine to you and does not have massive pixelation when you watch it? Have you compared it to the original file I gave a link to? Did you watch the youtube video in FULL Screen? These are legitimate sincere questions here. If you see the video fine, then that may mean the problem is with my machine and not youtube's compression.

[canuck]

Since the problem is with youTube rendering your uploaded video, why are you posting in this forum? Vs is not the problem

[jungleexplorer]

Since the problem is with youTube rendering your uploaded video, why are you posting in this forum? Vs is not the problem

Because youtube is the largest method of video distribution in the world and I would say a majority of non-corporate people who do video editing with editors like VS use youtube as a method to distribute them. Since I am using VS to render videos for upload to youtube, I want to talk to people that use the same program I am. If I posted on a Youtube forum, very few of the people that would read my post would be users of VS and not be able to offer me any advice on how to fix the problem using VS. Does that make sense to you?

[aljimenez]

I will give you one last comment. The Youtube video is of a scene which is well known to be very challenging for high quality capture and compression; in addition, the camera is not on a tripod which adds to the challenge. This scene needs very very high bitrates. The Youtube does show some pixelation when I watch it full screen, which IMHO is due to insufficient bitrate to capture all the motion in the scene. I also recommend you use a tripod to capture this type of scene.

[jungleexplorer]

I will give you one last comment. The Youtube video is of a scene which is well known to be very challenging for high quality capture and compression; in addition, the camera is not on a tripod which adds to the challenge. This scene needs very very high bitrates. The Youtube does show some pixelation when I watch it full screen, which IMHO is due to insufficient bitrate to capture all the motion in the scene. I also recommend you use a tripod to capture this type of scene.

I was using a tripod (Manfrotto MK394-H, to be precise), but I am flattered that you thought I could hold the camera that stable while zooming to 50X optical zoom in on a bird 40 yards away. Man, I wish I could hold that stable. Yes, this is a difficult scene without question, but I can find hundreds of very clear videos on youtube of similar scene, so there must be a way to get it to display correctly on youtube, otherwise all videos of running water would look as bad as mine. I am here looking for the answer to this question. There is an answer because other people have done it. It is quite possible that no one here knows that answer and that is fine. Or maybe they have not chimed in yet. I thought I would talk to other VS users first to see if one of you knew. Thanks for trying to help.

[jungleexplorer]

I think I have found the answer, but need to run some test before I will know for sure. If these test work, you may be interested in them. Let me know if you are and I will post the results.

[canuck]

Please post your answer/solution as it may help other users with a similar problem