Installer turns off what?

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Installer turns off what?

Post by GWild »

So sifting through my excess files ... besides Corel's installer spamming about 20 different places with so many unexpected 'extra' applications (e.g., who knew Roxio MyDVD is installed) that are NOT disclosed in advance.

I came across this trinket of no-no :roll: . While later the installer attempts to turn Autoplay around, it doesn't try to go back and enable Windows Update. Users beware :shock: .

05/06/17 00:30:32 - Created folder for log files: C:\ProgramData\Roxio Log Files\VideoStudio MyDVD\17-05-06 00-30\{ProductID}_{INSTALL_MODE}.log
05/06/17 00:30:32 - Installer version: 3.59.97B
05/06/17 00:30:32 - Attempting to register CancelAutoPlay
05/06/17 00:30:32 - Registered AppID
05/06/17 00:30:32 - Registered CancelAutoPlay successfully
05/06/17 00:30:32 - Attempting to supress Windows Update :!:
05/06/17 00:30:32 - Windows Update was already disabled
05/06/17 00:30:33 - Worker thread starting...
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by RobertOZ »

From what I can make out, those Roxio Log files are created every time you open MyDVD, I let them build up for a while, then just delete the complete contents of the VideoStudio MyDVD folder
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by GWild »

My point is that Corel (or the copy of MyDVD Corel installs) is disabling Windows Update... that is a very very bad practice for any application to do.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by BrianCee »

it has never done that on my computer - perhaps you have a setting somewhere on your computer





....
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by lata »

Hi

And like Brian I have not had a problem with MyDVD, certainly does not affect Windows Updates.
Although I am running Windows 10, but that should not make a difference with you using Windows 7.

I am not bothered about the MYDVD pack and can uninstall from Program and Features.
It would have been best if the installer gave us the choice to install that or not.

By the way this pack was installed with the StandardContents package.
New forum for PSP and VS users, register if you need help

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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by gewb »

Umm, that is actually good programing practice for an installer as you DON'T want your OS to begin an update session while VS is installing.

What is interesting is the line "Windows Update was already disabled" - that may be related to the Windows installer service temporarilly turning Update OFF (as it should) or that you had it turned off at that time. What you didn't post is the rest of the install log to see if the installer tried to turn Update back on, nor did you indicate that you opened the Services console to double check the status after the installer closed.

I don't think this is an issue.

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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by GWild »

That was the last of the log, and the installer did turn on another service it had disabled, but did NOT attempt to enable WU. The fact it didn't attempt the enable is what has me wondering. As for it being good practice, most commercial applications do not disable those sorts of things during installs, and generally speaking not doing so should rarely cause an issue unless the app is messing with key Windows services or features they really have no business messing with.

Overall I am unimpressed with how many "hidden" applications VS installed - about 10 different apps - some adware, too - that weren't described anywhere in the literature. Add to these unfriendly applications being installed without my knowledge, and the fact the UI is rather buggy, leaves a very poor opinion of the software.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by canuck »

GWild wrote:That was the last of the log, and the installer did turn on another service it had disabled, but did NOT attempt to enable WU. The fact it didn't attempt the enable is what has me wondering. As for it being good practice, most commercial applications do not disable those sorts of things during installs, and generally speaking not doing so should rarely cause an issue unless the app is messing with key Windows services or features they really have no business messing with.

Overall I am unimpressed with how many "hidden" applications VS installed - about 10 different apps - some adware, too - that weren't described anywhere in the literature. Add to these unfriendly applications being installed without my knowledge, and the fact the UI is rather buggy, leaves a very poor opinion of the software.
What "hidden applications" are you talking about? What "adware"? What " unfriendly applications"?

You sure do a lot of complaining but give no actual examples.

I always have the automatic Windows Update disabled so I have no knowledge whether VS install does anything there. In my opinion, having automatic window updates enabled is a sure-fire way to have your system messed up as we have found out over and over again.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by GWild »

This attachment shows what was installed along with Corel VS - minus apps I uninstalled because they wanted money to actually use, one a music app, another that looked like an effects editor (aka adware); and I think there was a standalone Roxio MyDVD added, too. The Microsoft files installed are support files for the various apps Corel installed. The sole non-Corel related app, MaxView Storage Manager was an update.
Capture.PNG
Some people do not like to hear anything negative about things they have adopted and defend it without actually understanding the issues - by why attack the people making the comments?

Companies routinely give away adware to make people think they are getting something for free; when in fact they are getting hammered with software bloat that is buggy, unsupported, prone to security issues and things like backdoors. Some of us fight this poor business practice, and try to inform other users of these somewhat malicious acts. Sorry if that offends you.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by Ken Berry »

If you looked at the package features that come with VS X10 Ultimate, in fact there are quite a few plug-ins and add-ons included in the price. See http://www.videostudiopro.com/en/produc ... Q#features

None of them require any further payment apart from the Triple Scoop music tracks and sound effects. Corel owns them and apparently included them in the coding for the main X10 (and X9 and X8) packages. Many of us have complained to Corel repeatedly about them, to no effect. But they are easily turned off within VS, and I and many other users have done so. But I will agree with you on that one. (There used to be another music plug-in called SmartSound Quicktracks, which many of us would love to see returned.)

Corel owns Roxio as well, and MyDVD was thrown in (free) as an alternative disc burning program, though admittedly not listed. Many of us regard this as inferior to the built-in burning module within VS. It is easy to ignore or uninstall -- but I would again agree with you that it is probably unnecessary bloatware.

All the other plug-ins, including what you refer to as 'an effects editor' (which could apply to any of the proDAD or Boris plug-ins included), are definitely not adware. They all serve useful purposes in video editing and thus enhance Video Studio's features. Boris, proDAD and NewBlue are all highly respected companies in the video editing world, and if you removed them, then that is up to you, but in doing so you were perhaps unknowingly shooting yourself if the foot.

Oh, and by the way, although I am one of the Site Admin people on this Board, I am not a Corel employee. I am just a user like you who has been using the product for quite a few years now and who volunteers his time to help out here. While we obviously like the program(s), we are quite aware of shortcomings and regularly make our views known to Corel. How often they take any notice is, as usual, another matter... :roll: :evil:
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by GWild »

Thanks Ken - I was Product Manager for a group of high tech software products ($10k list price), and understand the business reasons behind this sort of thing. I'm now retired, but was and am an advocate for open selling and optional installs - and coached our teams to have the bias: Let the user decide before you install a freebie.

Libraries are one thing; capabilities a coder decides to purchase rather than build in-house (why build expertise if it is available for reasonable prices externally). But adding standalone applications not required for the primary application that at the first window ask you to buy the product (a form of adware), is simply inexcusable. Companies get pennies for including them, and generally cause customers a lot of grief because the apps sit there and age without updates (most install silently and don't update until after you've paid for them or use them). And we know what happens when old code is not maintained. As for MyDVD, in this day and age BluRay is the goto standard, and even that ability requires a user to upgrade to a new version of MyDVD ... so even it is adware.

Again - it is annoying and a bit frustrating to see in any application -- but I paid extra for the Pro package in the hopes I'd get a standalone fully featured product. Instead I got an apartment complex of different applications touted as features - each with unique UI's, ad-hoc integration, and operational complications that make the experience unpleasant.

As a last question: where is the documentation for these secondary apps MyDVD, proDAD, Boris, and NewBlue; where does Corel explain what they are, what they do, and how to use them with VS; how is a customer supposed to know they can be important and useful?

I don't expect more answers; my questions are more rhetorical at this point. Hopefully this thread will inform a few users "extra stuff" is installed along with Corel VS - stuff they really want to be aware of.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by Ken Berry »

GWild wrote:As for MyDVD, in this day and age BluRay is the goto standard, and even that ability requires a user to upgrade to a new version of MyDVD ... so even it is adware.
Just on MyDVD, I would have to beg to differ on your characterization of it as adware. A couple of versions ago Corel made the seemingly strange decision to revoke the previously free Blu-Ray burner which had previously come as an integral part of VS. IIRC, even the ability to burn DVDs was withdrawn. It was apparently a victory for the Corel bean counters since they argued that few people these days burn DVDs, let alone Blu-Ray discs, any more, preferring to put their video on USB devices and plug them into HDTVs or stand-alone Blu-Ray players. So since Corel (and other NLE software manufacturers) have to pay a licence fee to some international body for each instance of the BD burner, the bean counters argued that they would save a heck of a lot of money if the people still interested in burning BD discs paid separately to get that function. The charge was just under $10, so not too expensive.

Needless to say, people objected and Corel threw in MyDVD as a sop. The problem was that MyDVD as provided would also not burn BD discs (though would burn DVDs). But BD functionality came to MyDVD if the user bought the BD licence for VS. Since that restored the ability of the built-in burner module in VS to burn BDs, this all seemed rather pointless since the built-in module is better and more flexible than MyDVD.

But my point is that you didn't have to "upgrade to a new version" of MyDVD, as you suggested, to get BD functionality. The version remained the same, but buying the BD licence gave it the ability to burn BDs, just as it did VS itself.

As for your other rhetorical question about how to use the various plug-ins, that is a valid complaint. Just about all of them (apart from MyDVD) have steep learning curves, with the Boris programs topping that list. But as you say, Corel provides no help with them. Fortunately, since Boris, proDAD and NewBlue provide the same or similar plug-ins for other NLE programs, they do have a variety of tutorials for them, mainly on YouTube. However, few of them relate specifically to the interaction between the plug-in and Video Studio or else become confusing because they relate to stand-alone versions of those programs which have features which don't exist in the cut-down plug-ins. But at least they provide some help...

So the bottom line is indeed that users usually have to tentatively try things out with these plug-ins to see how they work. Given the old adage that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, we like to think that some of our users here have experimented and learned more about those plug-ins, and are willing to share their expertise here -- which is often the case.

But I repeat that none of these plug-ins require extra payment. If you are getting that, it is an error which usually occurs (though very rarely) where the user has installed the plug-in independently of the installation set-up which comes as part of VS. And it can (usually) be corrected.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by GWild »

Any app that asks me for money gets an immediate Uninstall ... and sometimes a system restore just to be sure it really gets removed from the registry. But the way VS does the install makes it really difficult to selectively uninstall something because the base installer just does it again. Pretty stupid way of doing things, really.

One point I just don't get is that when using VS it isn't clear at all when I am using VS or some secondary app as a plug in. So are titles a plug in or part of VS? And are there two distinct titling features, or is that just my imagination?

And I'd still like to find a way to open an MPEG - split it in three places, and save the segments back as base MPEGs... I mean, doesn't everyone need to do this? lol.

Thanks again, Ken.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by Ken Berry »

You still haven't specified which of the plug-ins asked you to buy it -- or was that just the Triple Scoop music and sound effects?

I started using VS with version 7 -- and that's 7 without an X -- some thirteen or fourteen years ago. It has always had Titles as an integral part, well before Ultimate versions appeared with their attendant plug-ins. You can download more (all free!!) on the Do More page.

More recently Boris Graffiti, and even more recently (and I'd have to say, inexplicably) Boris Title Studio have appeared as plug-ins. To confuse the issue, those appear on the filters (FX) pages because you drag them to a clip in the timeline like you do other filters, and then select Customize Filter to open the Boris GUIs. But why we need two title editors, each with a steep learning curve, has never been explained, and personally I tend to ignore them and use the built-in Titles or else a couple of other titling programs I have used for years.

The other plug-ins also appear in the FX filters window and behave the same way as Boris. These include all the proDAD ones (Mercalli stabilisation, which is particularly useful for people with shaky hands or GoPro type camcorders; Vitascene; Script; and Rotopen), as well as the various (and often very useful) NewBlue filters. They are so useful, in fact, that several years ago I lashed out and bought the entire set at the time, only to have most of them appear over time in VS and free of charge (or at least included in the price for VS).

Splitting a video into a number of parts is easy and done with the scissors icon below the preview screen. Then you highlight one of the cut clips and go to File > Save Trimmed Video. This creates a real, as opposed to virtual, clip which appears in your clip window and in your working folder. You just repeat that as many times as you want to create and save real clips.
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Re: Installer turns off what?

Post by GWild »

The title editor is a mess - still can't get a title I want; and the app has a cursor bug that prevents serious trial and error. I always get what appears to be two titles - one with teh text I want and one saying I need to add text. While the second title doesn't appear when I "export" video, it is always there when editing - and makes me think I've messed something up. I really want Windows Movie Maker back, but since MS has stopped supporting it, I'd have to hack a version to reinstall it. Honestly, WMM did as much as what I see in VS except for some minor video enhancement. It with FFMPEG to resample if needed, was all I really needed. The intuitive ease of use alone is worth money to me.

I do not remember the name of the things I uninstalled ... had a shortcuts added to the desktop, when I clicked it it immediatedly said please purchase this. Had no other utility I could see. Roxio MyDVD was one, another I believe was an effects editor. And there was a third one that sounded like a music downloader - also wanted money to use.
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