Suggestions for Paint Shop Pro Classic Versions

[Forriner]

Re: thumbnails/browsing
I may have misunderstood the problem and this goes for X7, maybe not X9, but the Manage tab has two navigation tabs: Collections and Computer.
In most recent versions of PSP the Computer tab behaves like a browser / Windows explorer without saving thumbnails. If you leave the directory/folder the thumbnails are deleted. Building thumbnails can take some time, especially with large files/images.
Edit: The thumbnails are deleted not when you leave the directory but when you end your PSP session. Maybe if you browse a lot, a combination of the two.

With the Collections tab you have to "browse folders" and PSP builds 'permanent' thumbnails for each added folder, plus a database for tags etc. Once the (sub)-directories are added to "Collections" access is fast.

Ideal, maybe not, but it works.

[JoeB]

I'm not saying you're talking out of ignorance but from one IT guy to another, I don't see a lot of specifics here. I see a lot of "easier" and "better" and "intuitive" and "streamlined" but these, as you know, are horrible descriptors.

[SNIPPED FOR BREVITY]

Your complete post says it all quite well. Not only has the OP not responded to requests for more specifics, but he has also not appeared to have paid attention to advice on how to achieve what appears to be his goal.

As has been pointed out, PSP is almost infinitely customizable. He could simply remove all tools, palettes, menues, etc. that do not appear in versions 6 or 7 (or whatever version is his preference) and keep the ones that are in the old versions. Other than the fact that for some reason he seems to find the Manage tab less appealing to use compared to the older browser versions, customizing the various toolbars and menus to match his preferred PSP version workspace seems like a logical method of achieving his goals. Then he can make it look and work as "simpler" as those earlier versions. In other words, PSP already offers that mid-level option he seems to feel doesn't exist. He just has to customize it to have it operate that way.

Other issues (like whether or not the icons in 5,6, and 7 are easier to recognize for their purpose) is, IMHO, simply a matter of personal preference or opinion. The things one is used to are usually considered easier to understand or perceive than those that are less familiar. People who started with X versions of PSP might find the icons in Jasc versions more confusing.

The bottom line is that PSP can be customized to look and feel as simple as one wishes to make it. Even the term "simple" is subjective, with one person's "simple" being another person's "complicated" or "difficult". One of the biggest assets that PSP has always had compared to Photoshop is its easy customizing options, with the added ability to save and use as many different workspaces (look, feel and project specific utility) as one could desire.

JMHO, of course.

[MarkZ]

Two comments:

Regarding grimtrojan's Post 5 showing the browser in an earlier version, the image below looks remarkably similar to me. On the left in Computer mode are all the directories in the C: drive (or any other) and on the right are thumbnails for the selected folder. You can select one or more images and drag to a tray (and from a number of folders) for direct comparison, or click on the Edit tab and start working on them. I like very much the very good thumb resizing so it is easy to control the number of thumbs displayed or the detail that is visible.

X9 browser, Manage Mode.

Re: thumbnails/browsing

In most recent versions of PSP the Computer tab behaves like a browser / Windows explorer without saving thumbnails. If you leave the directory/folder the thumbnails are deleted. Building thumbnails can take some time, especially with large files/images.
Edit: The thumbnails are deleted not when you leave the directory but when you end your PSP session. Maybe if you browse a lot, a combination of the two.

I'm not sure if I understand your point but yes, there is a difference in how thumbnails in custom trays are handled between Collections and Computer. Thumbnails are not retained in custom trays when Computer rather than Collections is used but they are certainly displayed from any folder selected. There is a discussion on the subject in http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=61481.

[LeviFiction]

I've been talking with grimtrojan trying to understand what makes X9 so unusable for him. Getting specific examples....well....so far it's been layers palette, menus, icons, and the browser but still.

For him the Manage mode wasn't allowing him to activate the thumbnail mode. So he couldn't see that. And he insists that even adding folders to the collections tab still resulted in thumbnails being re-made every time he reloaded PSP. So unsure what that's all about. He is looking into building his own "images only" browser using Visual Studio so it'll be a bit more like he's used to in PSP 7.

His complaints about the icons...well nothing to really be done about that. Could send in a request for Corel to include multiple icon sets or finally allow us to use custom icons. But that's about it. Since we want the ability to use custom icons with bound scripts I don't think it'll be anything really new.

With the layers palette, I was shocked by how little I remember from PSP7. That layers palette was so simplistic. Masks were actually attached to layers instead of being separate layers inside layer groups. And layer groups are just linked sets. Anyway, I showed him how to get the current layers palette to look and work a little closer to the old PSP7 model. With the right pane turned on and palette thumbnails turned off. How to customize the toolbars and menus in it. And, while unhappy with the amount of work to get it done, is happier that he can get it closer to what he knows.

I'm beginning to really understand what he means by simple. Basic layering for compositions, advanced filters for manipulation, fewer options to navigate through. All of which could easily be done with workspaces. Just need some basic default ones for beginners, intermediates, and experts.

I still don't agree that there needs to be a simpler separate version just for beginners though.

[Forriner]

Re: thumbnails/browsing

In most recent versions of PSP the Computer tab behaves like a browser / Windows explorer without saving thumbnails. If you leave the directory/folder the thumbnails are deleted. Building thumbnails can take some time, especially with large files/images.
Edit: The thumbnails are deleted not when you leave the directory but when you end your PSP session. Maybe if you browse a lot, a combination of the two.

I'm not sure if I understand your point but yes, there is a difference in how thumbnails in custom trays are handled between Collections and Computer. Thumbnails are not retained in custom trays when Computer rather than Collections is used but they are certainly displayed from any folder selected. There is a discussion on the subject in http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=61481.

I was referring to the original poster's remark that thumbnails were built every time he scanned a folder. Slow. This led me to believe he's using/testing the Computer view instead of Collections view in X9.
In Computer it builds thumbnails for the session and discards them when you leave PSP -unless the directory is part of a Collection. So it's logical that those thumbnails disappear from (custom) trays.
In Collections the thumbnails are permanent so viewing is fast, and the database is built. And thumbnails in trays stay there until deleted.
If you use Collections in Manage tab, hide the info and preview palettes, you have a screen very similar to the Browse window in grimtrojan's screen shot, except perhaps for the colour.

[arturox]

This has been an interesting read, so I'll add a few notes...
Been using PSP since the days it was delivered on a 3.5inch stiffy (If you are too young to have been there... Small floppy disk), so I've been through a lot of Jasc versions, and in more recent times a lot of Corel versions.

Currently I have Jasc PSP 8, Jasc PSP 9.01 and Corel PSP X8 installed.

As much as I try to use the X8 version, the bloat in it makes the work progress much slower and far more tedious to manage.
I then utter a few bad words and revert to good old PSP 9.01 again.

My bones of contention are with the Corel versions:
No PSP internal Browser as there is in 9.01. Using Windows Explorer is a crude replacement.

One of the important things in the old PSP browser was to be able to leave the Thumbnails unsorted, thus a chap could drag the thumbnails around the browser window and group position them as required.
Very usefull when trying to get an order of which versions of a picture were better...

Can't do that now...

In PSP 9.01 the context menu over a thumbnail had a "Save to" or "Move to" entries, very usefull for a quick save somewhere without the full filer rigmarole. (Now long gone).

I'm getting seriously depressed writing this...

I'll finish with the fact that aside from a few minor niggles, I find PSP 9.01 runs well enough on Windows 10.

Ax

[Rick_R]

It's important to remember that Corel bought both WordPerfect and PaintShop Pro as finished products from other companies.

Corel's main product line was and still is commercial graphics software--they're more interested in competing with Photoshop.

PSP was purchased because Corel had nothing to compete in the low end of the marketplace with Photoshop Elements. If [back then] someone buys PE as their first image-editing product and learns it and then decides they want something more advanced, they would look for something compatible with what they already know--which would be an Adobe product. They're not going to switch to a completely different company's product--especially when Adobe is and will remain the high-end product used commercially.

PSP gave Corel a "foot in the door" with beginners, hobbyists, teachers, etc. And Corel increased the desirability of that product by "morphing" it specifically to photo editing.

It's also important to remember that PSP does not have radical changes from one version to the next. Most users can do everything they want even using 3-4 versions back. And older versions are routinely still available on Amazon and from other vendors, sometimes for a low as $35. So Corel would have to price a "classic" version substantially below that--around $14.99 to $19.99.

That's a price point where people don't worry about version numbers when originally purchasing and don't upgrade when a new version comes out and don't recommend the program to friends. So those would be one-time purchasers. And people who would consider buying those would not later switch to the current X# version of a program that retails for $80-100.

One last consideration is the same one Apple has--yes, Apple could put out lower-priced tablets with less features. But then the public would start thinking of their brand as "cheap". And that would make it difficult to have their high-end pricey products taken seriously. People who buy PSP X# are interested in a relatively low-priced software with a lot of features. People who will buy Corel's professional line will also buy PSP X# as a "convenience" or won't think of PSP at all. But if they saw Corel advertising a graphics editing program for $15-20, their reaction would be to see the Corel brand as cheap.

[arturox]

From a business perspective I have to agree with your sentiment...

From a personal and artistic perspective that's another matter...

However, it seems to me after 35 years of messin' with computers, the things "they" (Read most software developers) arbitrarily remove from apps as they develop them are often the functions user most want kept in, and the things often not wanted are added.

I'm talking generally now...
If I never ever saw another Ribbon toolbar I would die a happy guy.
But, I'm really urinated off when stupid developers remove the standard toolbar completely, as in MS Edge or Google Chrome for example, and especially when there is no option to put it back by those of us who want one, as there still is in MIE (Internet Explorer).

Most of the popular Internet browsers are for me, now, artistically barren paving slabs with useless User Interfaces, and as the sacrifice to the alter of the Tablet marches on, more and more apps are being redesigned with paving slab interfaces.

You are now going to interject with, what has this got to do with PSP... Fair point, read on.

While Elements is a (just about) satisfactory Photo app, the UI of Elements is a mess and little, but not a very configurable beast.

GIMP is a UI nightmare.

Now the positive bit.
Despite the mess Corel have made with PSP... (My personal opinion) One consistent theme in PSP from JASC through into Corel is the wonderful configurability of the UI, and I hope it continues to be so.

Ax

[Radim]

Hi! As browser have You tried Vivaldi?

[arturox]

Hi! As browser have You tried Vivaldi?

Just another concrete paving slab.

ATM. Until version 57 (Catastrophe day) I use Firefox with the CTR addon.

Ax

[Ron P.]

It's important to remember that Corel bought both WordPerfect and PaintShop Pro as finished products from other companies.

Corel's main product line was and still is commercial graphics software--they're more interested in competing with Photoshop.

PSP was purchased because Corel had nothing to compete in the low end of the marketplace with Photoshop Elements. If [back then] someone buys PE as their first image-editing product and learns it and then decides they want something more advanced, they would look for something compatible with what they already know--which would be an Adobe product. They're not going to switch to a completely different company's product--especially when Adobe is and will remain the high-end product used commercially.

PSP gave Corel a "foot in the door" with beginners, hobbyists, teachers, etc. And Corel increased the desirability of that product by "morphing" it specifically to photo editing.

It's also important to remember that PSP does not have radical changes from one version to the next. Most users can do everything they want even using 3-4 versions back. And older versions are routinely still available on Amazon and from other vendors, sometimes for a low as $35. So Corel would have to price a "classic" version substantially below that--around $14.99 to $19.99.

That's a price point where people don't worry about version numbers when originally purchasing and don't upgrade when a new version comes out and don't recommend the program to friends. So those would be one-time purchasers. And people who would consider buying those would not later switch to the current X# version of a program that retails for $80-100.

One last consideration is the same one Apple has--yes, Apple could put out lower-priced tablets with less features. But then the public would start thinking of their brand as "cheap". And that would make it difficult to have their high-end pricey products taken seriously. People who buy PSP X# are interested in a relatively low-priced software with a lot of features. People who will buy Corel's professional line will also buy PSP X# as a "convenience" or won't think of PSP at all. But if they saw Corel advertising a graphics editing program for $15-20, their reaction would be to see the Corel brand as cheap.

It was PhotoImpact purchased from Ulead/Intervideo, that was initially used as a competitor to Adobe Photoshop. Basically, Ulead had a program called PhotoStyler, which was marketed through the Aldus Group. Adobe purchased Aldus Group, and killed PhotoStyler, they hated the competition to their Photoshop program. Well the guys at Ulead then developed PhotoStyler into PhotoImpact to continue to compete against Photoshop. Finally Ulead sold to Intervideo, and a very short time later was sold to Corel. About that same time Corel purchased Jasc, which had Paintshop Pro. Oddly enough, the real competitor to PhotoShop, PhotoImpact is being killed by Corel, and PSP has been pushed. So your statement about Corel purchasing PSP (Jasc) to compete is not accurate.

When I first joined this web board back when it was Ulead's, (02/08/2002, username at the time rpete362) I also was a Jasc user, and didn't really know about PI. Once I was enlightened to how powerful PI is, it was obvious that PSP was not in the ballpark to compete against PS. I still think to this day had Corel picked up the ball and ran with it, they would have done serious damage to Adobe Photoshop.

[arturox]

That is most interesting, while I was aware of the products back then, they were not something I ever used, so I wasn't up on the behind the scenes doings...

As this thread is about old Classic versions, back in the Jasc days, as well as working at Jasc, Dr Kris Zaklika contributed massively to the PSP lists and I learned a lot from the advice and tutorials posted by Kris.
Later, after Corel... IIRC. KZ posted with more help under a pseudonym something like Rutabaga or some-such...

Anyone have any idea what happened to KZ after that...?

Ax

[JoeB]

That is most interesting, while I was aware of the products back then, they were not something I ever used, so I wasn't up on the behind the scenes doings...

As this thread is about old Classic versions, back in the Jasc days, as well as working at Jasc, Dr Kris Zaklika contributed massively to the PSP lists and I learned a lot from the advice and tutorials posted by Kris.
Later, after Corel... IIRC. KZ posted with more help under a pseudonym something like Rutabaga or some-such...

Anyone have any idea what happened to KZ after that...?

Ax

Kris posted under Spandex Rutabaga as I recall. While posting in a somewhat abrupt style his knowledge was extensive and his advice was excellent. Like you, I've often wondered what happened to him. I certainly haven't read posts in recent years in this forum that sound like they were from him.

I recall what can be considered a trademark response from him when somebody would post about a problem saying that they followed some particular procedure but kept getting a terrible result. The first line of Spandex Rutabaga's reply would often be "Then don't do that!"

P.S. Whether or not Kris and Spandex were actually the same person was, I believe, a subject of speculation that was never confirmed.

[tbart]

Hi Arturox
I am a long time fan of Jasc PSP9 but I cannot get it to load onto my new laptop running Windows 10. It hangs on "registering modules". I've tried googling a fix and realise others have the same problem but no real solutions offered. However I have another laptop with it happily running on Windows 10 so I know it can be done. I suspect its a missing Microsoft Visual C++ redistributable pack, probably 2005 or 2008. I do have 2005 and 2008, both x86 and x64 versions, on my new machine and it still doesn't work but I see 8 versions of each on my other laptop so I suspect there were different versions of 2005 and also 2008. I am not very techie but if you have any clues to getting it to run I would be a happy bunnie.
TB

[arturox]

Hi TB.
I didn't do anything particular to get Jasc PSP9 installed on my W10 Laptop.
As it doesn't have a CD/DVD drive, I just transferred the complete Installer from my Backup NAS over the LAN and into a directory on the W10 Laptop.
Double clicked the Setup.exe file and off it went.

Remember though, you must also install the 9.01 update otherwise problems...

With regard to the Microsoft Visual C++ redistributable...
There are only two installed on the machine.
2015 Redistributable (x64) - 14.0.23026
2015 Redistributable (x86) - 14.0.23026

And that it.
Sorry I don't have any wise words, but as you see I've not had any problems to solve.
The only thing I can think I do differently from most folks is, I never install these sort of apps in Program Files (Whatever), the only things I allow to install in Program Files are Windows and System things/utilities, all other progs are installed in a directory of my making... I have personal and logistical reasons for doing it that way.

AX