Suggestions for Paint Shop Pro Classic Versions

[grimtrojan]

I've been using Paint Shop Pro since version 3. That's 3, not x3. I have used every version from 3 to the current x9.

Even though I have all of these versions, most of them sit as nearly unused boxes on my shelf. I keep x5 installed to use when I need to do special color corrections or special things version 7 don't do (I also use After Shot Pro 3 for color corrections and more).

I have been using version 7 since it first came out and still use it. And that's the problem I have. Paint Shop Pro 7 barely works on the Windows 7 that I use. I don't care for later versions of Windows, but have used them. On Windows 7 it takes a lot of work to get Paint Shop Pro 7 to run correctly. It pretty much is a lost cause on later versions of Windows. All versions of Paint Shop Pro after 7 have been changed so much as to be a different program--and in my opinion, not worthy to be called Paint Shop Pro.

The latest version, x9, has many redeeming qualities and with a bit of tweaking and getting rid of the bugs, it will probably be the first version since 7 to get my respect. But it still doesn't compare to versions 5,6 or 7--the versions of Paint Shop Pro that I believe are groundbreaking. Version 4 expanded greatly beyond version 3, but was very difficult to work with. Version 5 was a work of art. Easy to use and powerful. Version 6 expanded on 5 and was probably the best paint program ever created. Version 7, while my favorite go to program, only out does version 6 because of all of the tools it comes with. Otherwise it is more difficult to work with (but still a very nice program).

Now, the reason for this posting. Who do I have to contact to make a suggestion to Corel that they create some Classic versions of Paint Shop Pro that work on later versions of Windows? The newer versions of Paint Shop pro are extremely difficult to work with. Versions 5 and 6 are fairly powerful and amazingly easy to work with. Version 7 is a little more difficult to work with but is an amazing program. And, all three have an image browser that has never been matched. The image browsers on all of the versions after 7 are horrible compared to version 7.

If the right person reads this, please pass it on to someone who might be able to address my thoughts. I can't be the only person who feels this way. There's a massive crowd out there that needs a powerful paint program that's easy to learn. I haven't been able to find one other than the versions of PSP I've already indicated--and I've looked at a lot of programs. Anything that is fairly easy to use is very limiting in many ways. If it's powerful, it's very difficult to use. Paint Shop Pro version 6 is probably the best program you could bring back. Version 7 would also be good in that it's more difficult to work with but still easy and more powerful than 6.

I believe Corel should consider Classic versions of Paint Shop Pro. Market version 6 as a standard classic version and version 7 as a professional classic version. Heck, you may even consider version 3 as a very simple version for kids or as an introductory paint program.

I have some skills in programming, so I know there's more to it than simply making a few changes to get the programs to work on newer Windows operating systems. I also know that PSP was purchased and Corel might need to purchase more rights for the programs. That said, I still believe the benefits might be well worth the effort. I've been doing graphics for many years. I am employed as the creative part of an IT department who's main job is graphics. I can barely work in most later versions of PSP. Version 9x has been improved a good bit, but is still a little difficult to work with and has bugs. I'm looking forward to the clean version of it. It still needs work on the browser.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

[Cassel]

I don't work for Corel, but one thing that i know is that those old versions were created by JASC, while starting at version X, Corel took over. I doubt VERY MUCH that Corel would have any interest in upgrading JASC versions, or any older versions. It is just a matter of resources. If they want to work on current/recent versions, they can't even consider working on oooooooold ones.

I agree that some older versions can do everything one needs, especially if they don't need the newer features. I personally still use version 9 (not X9) regularly for the scripting abilities. It works fine on my Windows 7 computer. Have you considered getting a newer version, even if it is not the newest one?

I am curious however to know what makes more recent versions of PSP so hard to use for you?

[grimtrojan]

I've used all versions from 3 to x9. As I said, I don't like any version after 7. I also indicated that Corel purchased PSP. And I said it would be an investment. I don't know that Corel doesn't own the older versions as well. A program being neeeeeewwww doesn't necessarily mean it's better.

As to what makes it difficult to use, its entire layout. I use layers on nearly every image I work on. The newer versions have made working with them harder. In 5,6 and 7 the menus are better set up, the icons easier to recognize, and probably the most notable change is the image browser. Run the browsers side-by-side and see which navigates easier.

I do a lot of work that has to be turned out quickly. As I said, they've gotten a little better with their latest version, but the browser is buggy. The tools setup feels a little better, but I haven't played enough with this version to make a solid opinion yet.

My suggestion was that Corel consider the possible market of a paint program that is quick and easy to use for the business world and maybe one that is designed for children and those not skilled with paint programs. PSP is still easier to use than other paint programs, but in trying to improve the program they lost some nice features and cluttered the layout.

Note that this is just my opinion, but I have to believe there are others who feel as I do.

[hartpaul]

Mmmm in the same vein there were some interesting programs that worked on Windows 98. I wonder if the makers of those programs could update those programs to work on Windows 10.

For many years I have maintained Windows XP mainly because I have a Canon scanner that still works but cannot get suitable drivers for any 64 bit version of Windows.
As well some programs that work well on Windows XP will not work on later versions eg Pinnacle Studio 9 - won't even install.

Windows XP support stopped in 2014 so I have persisted for an extra 3 years , but so many browsers stopped supporting it and it became painfully slow.
So eventually I had to drop Windows XP and move up and decided to go all the way to Windows 10 which is now my main working environment. I still have drives with Windows XP, Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 installed and can still switch between them. One of the disappointing things with windows 10 is that my mouse scroll wheel no longer changes selected values for tools and I have to now remain in those entry points and use the up / down arrows there to change values. This applies to all versions of PSP so it is a setting / conflict in Windows 10.

My first version of PSP was Jasc PSP 8 and I stayed with that for a number of version until I purchased X2. I continued to use 8 and slowly experimented with X2 til I was more comfortable with that than PSP8
I have stayed with X2 for many years and only now is PSP X9 looking like a competitor. I have tested a couple of earlier version including Jasc PSP7 and now find that they and PSP 8 appear so clunky.

Many of us dislike change and resist it, but sometimes we have to change the way we work to encompass the newer programs.

The OP says they are comfortable with Windows 7 and don't care for the later versions, but since support for Windows 7 finishes in January 2020 they may have to move up (perhaps by 2023) as exterior support for windows 7 also dies off. Likewise to continue to use an older version of PSP because of familiarity can reduce the users growth in use of PSP. There are many new improvements (and bugs) and useful new ideas in these later version. Again alternate uses of the old and new until you become familiar with the newer program. Again the beauty of PSP is that you can customize it and even change the toolbar to make it look like some of the earlier versions.
Not sure of the use of the Image Browser as I rarely use it, preferring to make working folders with images in it and then drag and drop onto the work space. Has the advantage of not working with an original, and being able to Save and overwrite to the same folder which I find much faster that Save As.

However the Manage work space allows browsing of images , setting up trays and switching the chosen image into the Edit work space or even viewing the trays in the Organiser and Edit work space and working from there.

[photodrawken]

My suggestion was that Corel consider the possible market of a paint program that is quick and easy to use for the business world and maybe one that is designed for children and those not skilled with paint programs.

It's way too late to do that. If you're running Win10, just go to the Windows Store and search for "Photo". You'll see many free photo-editing programs (including those from Adobe and Microsoft) that are super easy to install and super easy to use.

That "quick and easy" photo editing train left the station a long time ago, and it doesn't make any sense for Corel (or other developers) to try catching it....

The same is true (and more so) for painting programs. In fact, the soon-to-be-released "Creator's Update" to Win10 will include a 3D painting/imaging app as one of the operating system's new features.

[brucet]

How do you unscramble an egg?
So much has changed over the years. Software, operating systems and user expectations. A 'retro' version of PSP would have to be a whole new program simply to cater for those using newer operating systems.
Won't happen. Maybe a stripped down version like they do with ASP but not a return to an older version. Nope more chance of winning the lottery.

regads

[Radim]

I started with Jasc Paint Shop Pro 7.04 Anniversary that come with Jasc Animation Shop Pro 3.11 or something like that. At that time my favourite. Then came X2 v12.01 latest with Czech language. If this version X2 still worked fine on newer Windows I used it till today. Not possible for me. Program started crash unexpectedly... Next X6 was fine release.

Current X9 is a real joke, slow start, slow reactions, slow tools switch, crashes out of blue, each version move items here and there, some are hidden, some renamed...

Even if we have here section Wishlist for PaintShop Pro X10 - http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60016 seems not visited by developers...

[LeviFiction]

I used a cracked version of PSP7 as my first version. I bought version 9 on sale a few years later. Having not been familiar with photo editing programs there were a lot of things that irked me about how PSP 7 worked. Like text, couldn't wrap my head around the text tool for a while and it was alway so slow on my computer if you used too much text. The scratch remover tool seemed to work better, but that could just be my faulty memory. Now it works, but far too often I end up with pixelated results. I remember PSP 7 always being really smooth and clean unless the area was just too unforgiving. Removed a thin clump of hair from in front of someone's face with PSP7, tried it years later with X4 on the same image, terrible results.

However, I do like a lot of what we can now do in later versions. So single memories of things being "better" in older ones is not enough to make me go back.

Menus can be re-written. If that's a big complaint, fix it. PSP's strength in customization has not wavered. Though I am still annoyed that some palettes tot his day cannot be docked to the bottom of the screen. Why would I want to put histogram in a thin portrait slot like the Layers palette when It could spread out across the bottom of my screen?

Icons, yeah they redesigned them but new users never know what they mean they aren't intuitive in either 7 or X9. You just have to get familiar with them. And there are functions that no longer work like they used to, for better or for worse.

I never used the browser. The modern browser assumes you've setup your navigation with collections and tags. For fast easy access to files. And with file trays you can now create project specific groupings of images for fast access. Will you ever be fast enough with it to make up for learning to use it more effectively? I can't say.

[grimtrojan]

This was never meant to be a wish list of what I want in a paint program. It was meant to point out that there does not exist (to my knowledge) a paint program that has the main tools needed to do every day graphics (not just editing photos) that is streamlined to be quick and easy to use. They used to exist in versions 5 and 6 of PSP (yes, Jasc versions). For the record, Jasc was destroying the program before Corel took over.

I realize what's involved in creating a program or even updating one. I guess I presented this wrongly. Paint Shop Pros 5 and 6 were pretty much exactly what I needed. 7 was a little more complicated (not quite as well laid out), but its tools made it better than 6. I was hoping Corel would consider that there may be a market for people who do graphics hours every day and need to get the work out quickly. Plus, such a program would be perfect for the person who has gotten fairly good at using a regular paint program, but needs to move onto things like layers and integrated vectors with raster. Version 6 would be a great template to start from. That was my point.

As per the browser--I have a 2 Gigabyte drive that is at least 2/3 full--most of that is images. Those images range from tens of thousands of photographs to massive (file size) images with large numbers of layers. I also pull images from a server and occasionally another drive on my computer. Using my Windows browser does not work well in trying to find the images. The PSP browsers with an x in front of them are not set up to look for specific images in a folder with hundreds of images in it. I have never seen a better image browser than the one that comes with PSP 7. Again, if Corel would simply create a plugin that would mimic the abilities of that browser it'd help a lot.

Here are a couple of images.





*I had to reduce the image size of the browser to 800 pixels. I received a message when setting up the above images.

One image is a comparison of the tools for PSP 7 to PSP X5 (X9 looks pretty much the same). The other image is the browser for PSP 7. You may be comfortable with the new icons. However, I feel that the older icons might not be as pretty, but are easier to distinguish at a glance.

My job often requires me to quickly search all of my images without specific criteria. An example: I might be looking for landscape shots of red roses (that could be garden shots, planters, vases, etc.). Or I might be looking for a portrait shot of Lilies in a vase. I have to look through 15 years of images--both images that have been worked on and might be saved in layers and images straight from a camera. Folders may only have a few images in them and they might have hundreds. I can't search by name or a job--I have to find the image via a visual search. Try that with any of the X versions of PSP. Also--use any other program and you don't get to see the .psp files.

At work I do everything from editing images to creating e-mail ads to building business proposals. I do most of my work in PSP. I also do art for fun. That may include line drawings, comic book pages, art for book covers--things that require the basic and slightly advanced tools. For both work and fun I take a lot of photographs. For both I use the text tool and layers (and many other tools)

PSP 9 shows some promise. I still don't care for the icons, but the browser in the demo was a little better. However, when I purchased the program, it went right back to the garbage in the previous versions of PSP (which I also own).

I never said I couldn't work with these versions of PSP. I said they slow my work down considerably. It's not a matter of what I like vs. what I don't like. It's functionality. Even though they have amazing tools and power, there has to be a point where being able to navigate the program takes priority.

I'm really just posting this here in hopes that others with similar issues will help get the message to Corel that there is a market for a middle range paint program. I'm very happy for those of you who like PSP just the way it currently is or like one of the program versions after 7. To me PSP has lost one of the important things that used to separate it from other programs other than just the price.

I guess I should point out that I even got desperate enough to try a lot of Mac programs (I work with both Mac and Windows--not by choice). Everybody is trying to either make a paint program so simple it doesn't really do anything or give you tools that compete with Photoshop/Illustrator.

There has to be a lot of people who need a nice, powerful program that is streamlined to not require a large learning curve and doesn't slow you down trying to find the right tool (or image).

[LeviFiction]

The PSP 7 browser appears to be little more than a Windows Explorer window inside PSP. Would be possible to recreate this in portion with scripts, you wouldn't get drag and drop capability. While it would be next to impossible with over 15 years of photos, the type of searching you're talking about is where tagging would come into play. And smart collections. Once tagged and labeled you could do searches along what you suggest without doing so manually, speeding up your workflow.

The manager is the closest to the old PSP 7 browser in letting you see all of the image thumbnails, and navigate the computer's file system. It just adds a bunch of jumping back and forth.

I think the real problem here is that you're talking too broadly and generally. What made PSP6 and 6 better? How were they "simpler" to navigate? What truly made the difference?

Again you can do some severe changing to PSP's interface. You can remove all of the tools you'll never use. You can re-arrange all of the menus to make them match your workflow. I find it hard to believe that you couldn't recreate most of PSP6's interface in the newer versions. Minus icons and browser obviously. Most things missing between the two are simply hidden into the Customize dialog.

And if that's possible they could simply start selling pre-configured workspaces and not worry about dumbing down the program.

[brucet]

I guess in an ideal world Corel would give us the ability to customise everything. Blank screen with a simple customise icon. Then list all the feature that could be selected. Simply select every thing you want and forget the rest.
But can't that already be done with the customized menus?

Also for every user there is a different 'need'? So how does any program provide that ability?

For me it would be simply to have PSP with only the Edit window. I never use the other two windows. (Manage and Adjust).

Unless you can get a large group of users to agree with any of our 'wants' then I think there is little hope of Corel making any changes.

regards

[grimtrojan]

Windows Explorer does not show thumbnails of the PSP images. That makes it useless for my needs.

As you say, it's pretty much impossible to tag or label such a large number of images. Also, I have not been able to get the newer browsers to show more than a strip of images. I need to be able to quickly get through the folder of images. Also, The current browser don't use the thumb storage that the older versions did. Once I've gone through a folder, the next visit opens instantly, even if a few changes are made. The newer browsers have to re-read every image.

I am fully aware that the tools can be re-arranged. I have a problem with way the drop menus at the top of the page have been restructured. The icons--in making them nicer to look at--have been made more difficult to distinguish between or identify quickly.

Again, unless you install a version of PSP 6 on a computer with an older operating system and compare the experience to the current programs we probably can't communicate.

I am a programmer. I'm part of an IT department. I work with graphics every day. I've been doing this stuff since the late 90's. I've worked with many different programs. The observations I'm making are not of ignorance. I also feel that anyone who's used versions 6 & 7 and x1 through x9 probably understands what I'm saying (even if they don't agree). I also think I've been pretty specific in my multiple postings here. Still, some of what I am saying can only be understood if you've used versions 6 and 7.

Finally, as I've said in previous postings, I know this is hopeless. The string of comments are in desperation that someone from Corel will see a possible market for people who fall between simple paint programs and the complexity of the current PSP programs. Those existed in past versions of the program. I hope against hope that they'd consider an intermediate version of PSP (they can name it what they want) that would be a great tool for people who need the program to be streamlined and people who are ready to advance from a paint program to something with layers and other tools--who will not be overwhelmed by the complexity of the current programs. There are a lot of people who would probably buy that program and then buy PSP if they weren't turned of by jumping directly into PSP. I would own both programs. I need the streamlined version, but would call on the more powerful PSP when needed. That's why there are currently three versions of PSP on my computer and a shelf full of PSP boxes I've purchased over the years.

[brucet]

I started with PSP 5. So I can relate to your issues. However how would Corel decide what was important and what wasn't? What I need is not what you need. So who wins? For me 90% of PSP features are a waste of time and money. So I'm with you. Give me a simple version. But as I said. My version wouldn't be what your wish list would be.

The only answer I see is a version of PSP that comes with a fully customisable UI and feature list. To do that Corel is going to do some hard thinking. Something I don't think they are prepared to do. (For me the ideal PSP would be one with nothing but a blank screen with the ability to pull down menus. I like a blank, uncluttered work space).

So I see your frustration continuing for the foreseeable future.

Good luck

[grimtrojan]

I've removed myself from this topic. I've said what I wanted to say. I know it was hopeless. I feel that all of the replies, if anything, are confusing the issue. I was only saying there should be a paint program that fills the gap between a very simple program and a program like PSP.

Such a program does not exist. There is a market for it. Corel would have to decide if it's a big enough market. I think it is.

I'm not saying it has to have everything I want or needs to be extremely adaptable. There are tools that pretty much everyone uses--include only those. The icons of version 5, 6 and 7 are easier to understand. The menu (text, not icons) at the top of the page is better/easier navigated.

This isn't a matter of being unwilling to work with new things. I move on to new versions of software all the time. However, the current versions of PSP are much slower to work with than versions 5, 6 and 7. Yes the new versions are more powerful and offer an amazing array of tools for a great price. But that means nothing to me if the program slows me down.

I use PSP 7 and will until it no longer works (which I fear will be soon). I currently have x5 on my computer to do some of the things 7 is unable to do for me. I have x9 on my computer to get used to the new program, find the bugs and see if I can figure out how to make it replace version 7. It don't look very likely, but if I can get the browser to work the way it did when I used the trial version, at least the browser--though not as nice as version 7--would be useable.

Feel free to continue this conversation, but I am no longer a part of it. Sorry I wasted everyone's time.

[LeviFiction]

I'm not saying you're talking out of ignorance but from one IT guy to another, I don't see a lot of specifics here. I see a lot of "easier" and "better" and "intuitive" and "streamlined" but these, as you know, are horrible descriptors. If my users come to me and tell me what I've developed needs to be "easier" I need specifics. Feelings are so personal, what you find intuitive and quick and easily navigated others find limited weirdly laid out, etc. That's why the ability to customize as deeply as we can with PSP is so wonderful. If we don't like the layout, we change it. We're not stuck with how Corel thinks we should use the program. And as we use the program they collect data on most used tools and configurations (don't tell us you don't Corel, I see you working in the background) so by using the latest versions with what you feel are optimized settings can give them some insight into what truly makes the program better for you.

You say it's not about what you like vs don't' like and that it's about functionality. But as far as I can tell it hasn't lost functionality. It's simply gained more options and cluttered up the interface which you don't like.

You mentioned the layers palette where you complained about the menus (configurable to make them work the way you want) the icons (sadly not configurable, but I think this is a personal thing I find the new ones easier to recognize at a glance than the old ones, the old ones were easier to distinguish between each other but not their function without being overly familiar with them).

You then mentioned the browser, I do get that. The only way to get full thumbnail view in a non-filmstrip view is to use the Mange Mode, not the organizer palette. Mange mode has a preview mode and a thumbnail mode. I've never had an issue with it re-reading thumbnails. I suppose if it has a limited cache it would for the size of drive you have so that is a weakness PSP could work to fix. Not claiming there is a good solution here.

With Windows Explorer, I can see my PSP thumbnails. So not sure what the issue is there. Unless they are specifically saved in PSP 6 format and not supported by the new thumbnail viewer. In my testing PSP formats 5 and 6 don't seem to be supported. But when I save the image with PSP7 format the thumbnail shows up just fine.

Can you give me this - give me a process that is easier to do in PSP 6 than in PSP X9. Lay out the steps and how its harder. Now if the only thing that truly makes it harder is knowing where everything is, the cluttered menus and the icons not being as easy for you to distinguish that's one thing. If there are missing tools or options that's something else. Need specifics to bring up with Corel. Not feelings not impressions. Hard data. I do have PSP 6 on my computer. But beyond having fewer options I don't see what truly makes it better or easier. I think this is more personal to you and your processes.

Even if Corel adds a full thumbnail view option to their organizer palette it won't necessarily fix your thumbnail issue. So obviously there are some things Corel won't be fixing or changing. But if we can truly get down to the nitty gritty we can at least have something to work from.