Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitively!

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Luxi_Turna
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Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitively!

Post by Luxi_Turna »

Hi guys,

My AMD 9590 CPU has 8 processor cores. Each one can be busy on different tasks. I ran taskinfo http://www.iarsn.com/taskinfo/tskinf10_0.exe (an AMAZING free utility) which shows CPU utilization per core.

I let the PSP Effects Browser render (CPU-intensive) thumbnails for about 30 seconds. No activity other than PSP appears on the utilization graphs:

Image

Here's a larger view: http://flksite.com/luxi/multiproc.jpg

As you can see, PSP does use parallel processing in a multicore computer.


The burst of activity, most easily seen in the graph of CPU zero, shows that all eight cores were doing work. I doubt that the CPUs were used efficiently, though, because none of them were saturated and some did barely any work at all.

Also interesting (
to me, anyway): The graph for Memory-Mapped I/O is activity on the swap (paging) file. Even though I have 32G of memory, Windows memory allocator is so crappy that it causes a lot of swap activity anyway, no matter what it's doing.

To speed that up, I have the windows paging file on a RAM disk. That's a disk drive simulated in memory. Programs can read and write from it just like it was a physical hard drive. That way, everything happens in memory which is about 100 times gaster than a physical disk. It really speeds up boot—and everything else!

As you can see from the value of "Max Swap KB" on the right side of the screen cap, my PC has done over a gigabyte of swapfile I/O in memory instead of a slow disk.

I also put the Windows and PSP temp file folders on the RAM disk. I cannot describe how fast things are when it all happens in 2.4 GHz memory on a 5 GHz processor. Unzipping even big files happens almost instantaneously, too, since it used temp files heavily.

There are probably several ramdisk programs available that allow you to put the paging file on a RAM disk, but I use WinRamTech's RAMdisk, Full Version. http://winramtech.atwebpages.com/RAMDriv/ramdriv.htm

After installing the ramdisk, go to Ctrl Panel ➜ System ➜ Advanced System Settings (on the left) ➜ Advanced tab ➜ Performance Settings ➜ Advanced ➜ Change. Set all drives to "No paging file" and set your RAM drive paging file to System Managed Size. Note that it will only use as much of the ram drive as it needs.

You can place the temp file folder there too, by editing the registry. Just search for the key "tmp". Near it will be another key where you can set TEMP to the same folder. Make sure you change all occurrences.

Note that I also direct all my downloads to the ram disk so that install/setup programs run very fast and go away when I turn off my PC. This reduces file fragmentation and prevents the buildup of a huge download directory full of install files I'll never need.

☺,

-Lux
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Re: Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitiv

Post by flagpole »

I'm not interested in starting an argument with you. However... you say 'Windows memory allocator is so crappy that it causes a lot of swap activity anyway, no matter what it's doing.'

I would suggest you do not know what the swap file is or how it works. By using a RAM disk you are depriving yourself of memory. the microsoft philosophy is unused memory may as well not be there and so it will attempt to utilise as much memory as you can give it. There is no penalty to swap activity, it's simply the OS copying stuff out of ram to the hdd prior to needing to do it. think of it like this when would you rather it coped the stuff out of RAM? when you launch that extra program that finally pushes you over your physical ram limit or before?

It's best not to give advice unless you're certain.

Also just FYI the best way to move your temp folder Ctrl Panel ➜ System ➜ Advanced System Settings (on the left) ➜ Advanced tab ➜ then down the bottom, environmental variables.

as for the rest of your post i will refer you to the definitive answer i gave earlier...
The answer is that multi threading is being implemented on an as needed basis starting with the most CPU intensive tasks. So for example skin smoothing and time machine are. Inner bevel is not.

There's a simple test you can use for example on my quad core a non-multithreaded task will use 25% where as a multi-threaded task will use 100%.
Boost clock and things will get in the way a bit, but the principal is sound.
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Re: Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitiv

Post by Rick_R »

flagpole wrote:By using a RAM disk you are depriving yourself of memory.
He has thirty-two gigabytes of RAM. I'm sure he's not worried about "losing" a few gigabytes. He didn't mention that a DDR3 RAMdisk is 10x faster than a high-speed SSD. Nowadays, people who want really fast performance routinely put the pagefile on a RAMdisk.

Awhile back on AMD's RAMDisk page someone mentioned using a RAMDisk of several gigabytes and someone else said, "Yes, but you have to wait for it to load and save to disk every time you shut down or reboot." The response was, "I have an SSD. It takes 30 seconds to save or load."
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Re: Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitiv

Post by flagpole »

You just don't get it.

The only time the system uses the disk is when it has run out of ram. (the paging seen is in preparation for when it it needed not because it is needed,) you will always be better off with more ram than setting up a ram disk.

'Nowadays, people who want really fast performance routinely put the pagefile on a RAMdisk.' and they're all making their systems slower however routinely people might be doing it.

Are you honestly telling me you think setting the paging file to a ram disk is advantageous. even though the virtual memory is only to be used when you run out of ram? Seriously?

Let's ask Mark Russinovich, a windows kernel developer...
From: Mark Russinovich [ --snip-- ]
Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2012 10:44 PM
To: --snip--
Subject: RE: TechNet Blogs: Contact request: Page file on a RAM disk

Yes, putting the pagefile on a RAM disk is ridiculous.

From: --snip--
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 11:38 PM
To: Mark Russinovich
Subject: TechNet Blogs: Contact request: Page file on a RAM disk

Subject: Page file on a RAM disk

Hey Mark! I was wondering if I could potentially ask you a question regarding the page file? I have quite an understanding of how Windows manages memory and how the page file contributes to things like system commit, etc, but time and time again I see the recommendation to place your page file on a RAM disk.

This just seems counter-intuitive to me, and if one of the roles of the page file is defining the system commit limit, then doesn't it seem silly to extend the amount of virtual memory that can be allocated by allocating virtual memory (which is what the RAM disk driver would have to do...)?

What could be other potential repercussions of storing the page file on a RAM disk?

Hope you can spare 5 minutes or so... I bet you're working hard on Windows Azure!

Cheers!
I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think it's a good idea.
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Re: Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitiv

Post by JoeB »

flagpole wrote:You just don't get it.

The only time the system uses the disk is when it has run out of ram. (the paging seen is in preparation for when it it needed not because it is needed,) you will always be better off with more ram than setting up a ram disk.
[snipped]
I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think it's a good idea.
I think the problem is that some people don't realize that the pagefile on disk is only used when the system runs out of ram. Therefore, they don't realize that by setting up the pagefile using ram they are simply making Windows think it has run out of ram before it would actually have run out of ram if some of the available ram hadn't been allocated to the pagefile.
Regards,

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Re: Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitiv

Post by LeviFiction »

Is this method of "unused RAM is wasted RAM" a recent thing with Windows? Would this have been true with 95, 98, or XP? What you often find is that people do crazy things when the technology is initially limited, and then out of habit and articles produced saying "this will get you the best results" the myth spreads like wildfire and then everyone is doing it.

Again I used a RAM disk for the scratch disk option inside PSP when it was only 32-bit because I could have 8 GB of RAM and PSP would only be using 3 or 4 of it. And the scratch disk was slow because of the limitation they put on it. After it went 64-bit I never used a RAM disk again. Whether or not that was stupid I'll leave to smarter more informed individuals like yourself. But it at least gave me the impression that it worked better. Which is another part of it.
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Re: Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitiv

Post by photodrawken »

LeviFiction wrote:Is this method of "unused RAM is wasted RAM" a recent thing with Windows?
Yes. From what I've read in the technology press, the introduction of Vista (and its new driver model and kernel behavior) allowed MS to re-examine the concepts that governed operating system behavior. With each successive version of Windows, MS enhanced the "new" behaviors.

I credit Ed Bott (a well-respected industry/Windows journalist) with coining the phrase "Unused RAM is wasted RAM". At least, I first saw the phrase in one of his columns. That was a year or so ago, and I'll be damned if I can find the article again. :( He was interpreting the information contained in the Windows10 blog posts from the Windows10 development team in an article he (Bott) wrote to correct myths surrounding what the various performance metrics (viewed in the new Win10 Task Manager) mean.

You're absolutely right about so many people still doing "crazy things" that might have been somewhat appropriate with ancient versions of Windows, but failing to recognize that the world has changed and that old habits are no longer necessary or good.

Edit:
Well, I found what is probably the Ed Bott article I was thinking of:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-7- ... o-measure/
Wow! I sure was off by the date and operating system! :D Whew, time sure flies.... :wink:
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Re: Does X9 make use of multiprocessing? Answered definitiv

Post by flagpole »

I think that is exactly what has happened. The received wisdom has an inertia all of it's own.

I also note that, as is so often the case, it's an accommodation made as a technology is about to reach it's end of life naturally anyway, (in this case 32bit)
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