VS X10 will play AVI file as a Clip but not as a Project

[ScoDog]

I have an .avi file about 14GB in size (1920 x 1080, 30 fps). After I import this file into VideoStudio X10, I then insert it on the main video track so that this clip is the ONLY clip on the timeline. I answer “Yes” when it asks me if I want to change the project settings to match the clip (answering Yes or No does not alter the problem outcome below). Then, I can drag the timeline cursor across the clip and see the video frames flash by in the playback window, so the file seems to be OK and recognizable by VS. Then if I select “Clip” in the playback window and start the playback, it is OK. But if I select “Project” in the playback window and start playback, I always get the same failure (dialog window pops up and says: “Corel VideoStudio has stopped working. A problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available.”) I then have to select the only option in the dialog window: “Close program”.

Also, if I select “Project”, I can single-step (frame-by-frame) through the video. So the failure only occurs with “Project” if it is playing back.

Any ideas as to why this is occurring, and if there are any settings or options I can try?

[aljimenez]

Some guesses: 1) Needs a new Quick Time codec; 2) Change project format to mp4 with the same resolution to see if project playing does not fail; 3) Try to render/Share the project to create a video file and then check to see if it plays in Windows Media Player.

Give more details about the video file: (get Mediainfo if you don't have this program) bitrate, the type of codec inside. Does the video file play in Windows Media Player? If you can cut the video file into a short portion and share it, someone in this forum can try to reproduce your problem and help further.

[Ken Berry]

Since you can insert the avi into the timeline, the simplest way of getting its Properties is simply to right click on it in the timeline. As Al has already said we really need to know exactly which codec was used to make the clip. As you may be aware .avi is merely a wrapper format which can be used to cover a very wide variety of video types from uncompressed to highly compressed. Where did the clip come from?

You might also want to experiment by turning off hardware acceleration if you have it enabled (Preferences > Performance). While I suspect this won't change things, we only recently discovered that at least one format returns the same error message when hardware acceleration is enabled, but works just fine when it it turned off.

[ScoDog]

First, thanks for the replies.

The file came from a Super 8 Film transfer company (it's the result of a telecine transfer from Super 8 to AVI format; I wanted as minimal compression as possible; the file does contain the "pull-down" or extra duplicate frames to change the frame rate from 18 fps to 30 fps). The file is playable in at least three players I tried (Windows Media Player, Movies & TV (it came with Windows 10), and ffmpeg/ffplay via a Cmd prompt window). As noted previously, even VS will play it (when I select it as a Clip rather than as a Project in the playback window ... very strange).

Per VS properties, the clip is: File Format "Microsoft AVI files"; Frame Rate "30.000 frames/sec"; Data rate "1835.10 kbps"; Video Compression "MJPEG Compressor"; Attributes "24 bits, 1920 x 1080"; Audio Compression is "blank" (it does not contain audio).

I used the Share tab in VS to output a small (~ 20 frames) portion of the clip in an AVI format using the default properties when I selected the AVI button for export. The exported clip has all the same successes and failures as the original clip (i.e., it plays in the players noted above, plays in VS as a Clip but crashes when played as a Project). Per the Properties inquiry within VS (when I brought the exported clip back into VS), the exported clip is: File Format "Microsoft AVI files -- OpenDML"; Frame Rate "29.970 frames/sec"; Data rate "3699.42 kbps"; Video Compression "DV Video Encoder -- type 2"; Attributes "24 bits, 720 x 480, 4:3"; Audio Compression is "PCM, 48 kHz, 16 bit, Stereo".

I will upload the 4.4 MB file exported from VS for your experimentation (named "OutputFromVS.avi").

One other piece of info: If I transcode the original file (e.g., using Handbrake) to .MP4, it plays everywhere OK (even in VS as a Clip or Project), even if I use the "lossless" quality option in Handbrake during the transcode (since I am trying to maintain absolutely no degradation / no lossy compression until the final VS output to Blu-Ray). However, in that endeavor to maintain perfection, I took it one step further and attempted to use ffmpeg and Xmedia Recode to simply change the video container format for the embedded video stream (change from an AVI container to an MP4 container, without any transcoding). As a result, all of the players are totally unable to recognize / play back the file with the MP4 container format. So ... that does not seem to be an option for me. Best working option thus far is to do a minimally lossy transcode from the AVI to MP4 with Handbrake (I can see subtle differences in certain scenes).

Hope you can play with the uploaded file and figure this one out for me!!

P.S. I originally exported a 4.4 MB clip when I wrote the above. Since the website has a 2 MB size limit, I went through the process again (exporting just a smaller 1.3 MB clip from the original file). When I brought that smaller clip into VS, it now plays as a project!!! So then I brought in the original large clip and it too seems to play OK as a project!! I cannot believe it seems to work OK now. I did not alter any settings. Problem for now seems to be solved (3am in the morning) without knowing why. I will still upload the 1.3 MB clip so you can quickly try it and see if it is at all funky to you in VS. I will also update later when I have a chance to really see if the original file / clip is consistently OK.

P.S.S. Cannot upload the file. The website says "The extension avi is not allowed." How do I upload a small avi file ?

[lata]

Hi

First I would suspect the lack of audio stream may be the issue.

When you rendered the small sample I suspect that the audio stream was added, even though there is no volume as such.

When the guys suggested uploading a sample you should use Google Drive , DropBox or One Drive, they will allow a larger file upload.
The forum as you have found has a small file size limit.

For your small Avi try zipping the file, you should then be able to attach to your post.
Although you have rendered / converted the file to DV Avi not Mjpeg.avi? so the small sample is not as original.

Ok something to try.

when you add your original to the timelines you ae prompted to match the project properties, this you should do.
Then from Settings – Project properties check if an audio stream has been added, if no edit the project properties to add audio.
Now Share – Same as project properties.
Render that to a new video file, containing an audio stream, does that play ok?

[ScoDog]

I have experimented some more and have stumbled across a significant finding (see attached file "Problem with Crashing due to AVI 1920x1080.docx" for more details and screenshots). In summary, if the Project Properties indicate 1920x1080, the problem occurs (i.e., it plays as a Clip but not as a Project). If the Project Properties indicate 720x480, the problem does NOT occur. This contradicts reason since the clip is actually a 1920x1080 format (based on what the film transfer company told me, and based on what the video players and Windows tell me about the file).

I recognize there may be other parts in the VS properties list that are really the driving factor, and so that is why I provided screenshots of all properties during each step I took before/after in the attached .docx file. For example, when the Project Properties showed 1920x1080 it would indicate no audio, whereas the properties with 720x480 would indicate audio, so maybe the presence or lack of audio is the driving factor.

It was requested that I try editing the Project Properties to add audio, but I do not see a way to do that. When the Project Properties is at 1920x1080, it says "No Audio", and when I select Edit in that box, the General tab says the Data Track is Video Only (does not allow any other selection) and the AVI tab shows the Audio Format of PCM but it is grayed out with no apparent way to edit it.

It was requested that I try to Share (export from VS) a smaller clip using the Same As Project Properties. When I do this, even though I have placed an audio file in the timeline, the output Share window indicates the output file format will be No Audio. Sure enough, when I then try to import the file I have exported, it is shown as a 1920x1080 file with No Audio, and the same old problems (crashes when playback as a Project in 1920x1080 mode) occur with that imported clip as well.

And I am sorry I am naive; I do not understand how to use a Cloud to send you a large file (4 MB) with video in it. This seems like a promising next step since as I stated above, the exported file (small clip) still has the same problem as the large original clip. Can you help tell me how to get you this 4MB file?

Lastly, any other thoughts with the new information I have provided (e.g., do you still think it is audio rather than resolution problem)? If still needed, is there any further instruction on how to do what you previously requested (Edit to add audio to the Project Properties? Find a way to add actual audio to the exported (Share) file even though the output format is Same As Project Properties (i.e., No Audio)? Upload the video file clip)?

Thanks again!

[ScoDog]

Here's an additional thought: I notice that the codec of the original AVI clip is MJPEG. Perhaps VS does not fully supported this codec? I assumed since the file was AVI (which is supported by VS), and it does play back in Clip mode, then the codec would also be supported. Has anybody else used VS successfully on MJPEG codec files? If this codec is the problem, is there a plugin or update for this codec? If no plugin or support for it, then what format should I alter it to (either using an external program or via VS's export / share process) so that it is compatible but has zero loss (or the minimum loss) so I can continue my editing ?

[ScoDog]

One more comment then I'll be quiet for awhile. If the MJPEG is the issue, and there are not any fixes as I asked about in my previous post, then how does this sound for a workaround: Keep the Project Properties in the MPEG-4 format (1920 x 1080, H.264 High Profile etc.) so that the error does not occur anymore. My understanding is that VS does not actually alter the source file, so my original quality will be untouched during all my editing sessions. Then, when I "Share" the final project to Blu-Ray, VS will convert the original MJPEG data (which I have cut, re-arranged, etc. during editing) to the Blu-Ray. In other words, there never is any intermediate step in which VS converts the MJPEG to MPEG-4 and then converts the MPEG-4 to Blu-Ray. Is that a correct understanding?

I will caveat with a possible exception to my own thoughts: I believe that if I ever do a special edit function like transitions, slo-motion, etc., does VS immediately render and store those portions of video in the intermediate format defined by the Project Properties (so those portions alone would be subject to one conversion during the render/editing session for that special effect, and then again during the final Share session)?

In essence, I guess I am asking what effect does the Project Properties have on my editing sessions and final product?

Thanks again.

[asik1]

I just uploaded a 25 sec MJPEG AVI I shot this morning with my Chinese 12$ crapcam
http://www.filedropper.com/mjpeg
Here the file plays well in X9 without any apparent culprits.
Test it on your systems.

Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 45.8 MiB
Duration : 25s 2ms
Overall bit rate : 15.4 Mbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : JPEG
Codec ID : MJPG
Duration : 25s 1ms
Bit rate : 15.2 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 28.959 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.568
Stream size : 45.2 MiB (99%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 25s 2ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 8 000 Hz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 391 KiB (1%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 1923 ms (55.69 video frames)

[Ken Berry]

To start with I have to say I have no real idea what your problem is. But I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with the original video's MJPEG format. That stands for Motion JPEG and it is an old an high quality codec used for a long time, including in Video Studio. In fact it used to be used by a number of digital cameras and as far as I am aware, might still be used. Moreover, VideoStudio comes equipped to use it.

That being said, I suspect what you have proposed as a workaround is probably a good idea -- with one comment. You say you will use mpeg-4 Project Properties, which is fine. But to save one step you could set the Project Properties of AVC/H.264 instead of direct to mpeg-4. AVC/H.264 is of course mpeg-4 but it is produced using the H.264 codec (which again is native to VS). Moreover, AVCHD is one of the two main Blu-Ray formats whereas general mpeg-4 may not use the H-264 codec.

As for your final question about the importance of Project Properties, sometimes there is not that much importance in them, as you have found. But equally if, for instance, you set your Project Properties to AVC/H.264 as I suggested, then when you have finished your editing you can go to Share > Same As Project Settings and this will produce a new video of your project which is fully Blu-Ray compatible and can then be burned direct to a BD disc without further rendering.

[lata]

Hi ScoDog

First mjpeg is fully supported by Video Studio and has been an option for as long as I can remember.
Can you zip your VSP project file and attach to your post, we can then view the properties.

Changing the Project Properties to set audio I would have thought possible by clicking the Edit option, if not then the New option should allow you to set the properties.
I only mention changing the Project properties as they contain all your video files properties, you are then simply adding audio.

Ok

1 / Go to Settings Project Properties – should show your video files properties in the right hand panel.
2 / New – Give the profile a name
3 / View General tab – should be similar to your video files properties.
4 / View Avi tab – should show as Mjpeg and audio as PCM
5 / Ok to that and Ok to close next two windows

6 / Go to Share – Same as Project Properties
The Properties panel should show the settings as using mjpeg with PCM audio.

If yes try rendering the video file.

[ScoDog]

So the good news is that the file “MJPEG.AVI” file that was provided and described by asik1 in his 3/26/17 post on this thread (here is the link again for convenience: http://www.filedropper.com/mjpeg) also causes the error to occur. I have isolated the problem to this point: when I allow VS to change the Project Settings to match my original AVI clip (codec = MJPEG, etc.), I am unable to play any video clip or source file when Project (instead of Clip) is selected in the playback window. While this might make sense if I was trying to play a non-MJEG file, it does not make sense if I am simply trying to play my MJPEG file nor the MJPEG file provided by asik1.

With that revelation, I have simply zipped up a VS project in this state (see attached file "MJPEG Crashes VS in Project Playback (keep settings).zip"). This project has no audio nor video, but the Project Settings have been set to match my original AVI file that causes the error. I would request that you please do the following sequence with this zip file after unzipping it:

1. Double-click the file “MJPEG Crashes VS in Project Playback (keep settings).VSP” to launch this file in VS. This will launch a project that does not contain any video or audio in the timeline, but the Project Properties will be in a state that should cause the error.

2. Select the Edit tab.

3. Select the Settings – Project Properties to verify the Project Properties are still as follows (but do not make any changes to them): Project Format = DV/AVI; Properties = Microsoft AVI files, 24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 30 fps, Frame-based, MJPEG Compressor, No Audio.

4. Import the file “MJPEG.AVI” file that was provided and described by asik1 in his post to this thread on 3/26/17 (here is the link: http://www.filedropper.com/mjpeg). You can also try your own MJPEG file as well; I suspect you will get the same results.

5. Insert the MJPEG.AVI file on the main Video Track. Do NOT allow VS to change the Project Properties to match the clip. In my testing, VS did not even ask me the question (I assume VS believes the Project Properties already match the clip?).

6. In the Playback window, select Clip and then the Play button. This will play the clip OK.

7. In the Playback window, select Project and then the Play button. This will cause VS to immediately pop-up an error window and tell you to close the program due to the error.

In response to lata, I performed his steps to change the properties to have audio. Here are my comments: In his Step 4, yes I do see "PCM" listed as audio, but it is grayed out with no ability to alter it. Furthermore, when I press OK to exit the custom property window, the Project Properties still say "No Audio". In Step 6, when I Share same as Project Properties, it still says "No Audio". You can try this yourself with my attached zipped up VS project.

Thanks again for all your help through this. Can't wait to see if you are able to duplicate my error using the zipped project. If you can duplicate the problem but cannot figure out why it is occurring, I am wondering if anybody can provide a blank project back to me with very similar Project Properties (MJPEG etc. as listed above in Item 3 above) that won't cause the error to occur so I can use it as a template.

[lata]

Hi

First I do not have a problem using Asik’s sample, other than the frame rate is 28.959 which is unusual, but no crashes.
Also Show Messages does not activate, not surprising given the frame rate as 28fps

I have attached a VSP using Mjpeg settings.
Open the project and add your video file, if you are asked to change project properties choose NO.

Things just do not make sense, I think you should try re-installing the program?

Mjpeg VSP link to asik file.zip

open using X10

(1.05 KiB) Downloaded 174 times

[canuck]

Using either Lata's VSP or scodog's VSP and asik's file, VS X10 crashes with the error message tha scodog posted.

That is: no problem with the clip mode but the project mode crashes.

[ScoDog]

Lata, can you clarify if when you "had no problem using Asik's sample", were you using the VS project file I sent in previously with my project settings maintained? Also, can you please explain your comment "Also Show Messages does not activate, not surprising given the frame rate as 28fps"?

I did just try using Lata's VS project file (in "Mjpeg VSP link to asik file.zip"), and I was successful in being able to play my original file and Asik's file example (both are MJPEGs). So that was pretty cool, ... until then I saw Canuck post that, in contrast, he duplicated my original problem while using Lata's VS project file. While I am happy somebody was finally able to see the same issue as me, it is confusing that he saw it with the project file provided by Lata even though I had success with that particular project file (I am assuming that, like me, Canuck did not alter any Project Properties when he opened Lata's project file).

So other than Lata answering my above questions for me, is there anything else I can do to help anybody solve this mystery (since I now have several workarounds I can use without necessarily having to get to the root cause of why this is occurring)? If not, then I think I will forward my project file to Corel Tech Support and see what they think of it.