35mm digital scan markings

[fndooley]

Okay Corel Userboard Pros... you have never let me down. I have a ton of old 35mm negative scans that were recently digitized so that I could go into my PaintShopProX9 and try to make something out of them. I sat on them for awhile and now as I start shifting through I am seeing a 'marking" that runs through some of them. On some, I can actually use PaintShopPro to mask them or crop them out - but I don't know what it is or where it came from. Was hoping someone here could advise before I invest in having them scanned again. I do not see anything physically on the negatives (but my eyes are not what they use to be) and if I print out the digitized image the markings are very prevalent. Thanks in advance.

[JoeB]

There could be a variety of reasons for those vertical marks, and others might have other advice to add. They are most apparent in the sky and mountain part of the image, and I also notice that - near the right side - the sky saturation is somewhat stronger than the areas on either side.

Reasons, as mentioned, are varied. The first thing to ask is whether you had these negatives professionally digitized or did you scan them yourself?

In any event, the age of the negatives and how carefully they were stored could be one factor. They don't look like scratches to me but more a disfiguration, as if there were small creases or bends in the negatives which could happen if they weren't always stored flattened properly and which might not be visible to the eye without magnification.

Also, when scanned, perhaps the negatives were not pressed completely flat against the scanner bed.

Also, the storage medium could be an issue. Negatives are usually delivered with photos in a small, translucent envelope. If the envelope develops those little folds or bends that could result in them making impressions on the negatives themselves over time.

Another storage consideration is if the negatives were kept stored in a dark environment. If not, then light could have affected various parts of the negatives in different ways than other parts. This could be more apparent if, particularly, either of the first or third situations I mentioned above were present but also the possibility that the small folds were caused by not pressing the negatives flat against the scanner platen.

Those are just a few ideas. Other may have more professional info for you.

[fndooley]

Hey Joe, thanks for the quick reply. I should have given more information, but let me answer your thoughts here. Might help somebody else that want's to weigh in. I looked at this particular neg on a lighttable with a loop. I thought like you that it had to be some type of indentation in the neg itself. I was also concerned since this pic was taken, oh, probably 30 years ago, that it could have been something the neg dragged across in my old 35mm film camera. I was unable to detect any type of negative damage or distortion using an 8x loupe. The negs were stored in a three ring binder in protective negative 8.5x11 archival pages. The binder was in a bankers box and probably has not seen the light of day for 30 years. I did not scan them. I paid a ton to a professional lab to scan them and looking at them now, there is a ton of them with these markings. I think it was during scanning. I am going to take the negs to another place and have them scanned there as well to see if it shows up both places.

[JoeB]

Hey Joe, thanks for the quick reply. I should have given more information, but let me answer your thoughts here. Might help somebody else that want's to weigh in. I looked at this particular neg on a lighttable with a loop. I thought like you that it had to be some type of indentation in the neg itself. I was also concerned since this pic was taken, oh, probably 30 years ago, that it could have been something the neg dragged across in my old 35mm film camera. I was unable to detect any type of negative damage or distortion using an 8x loupe. The negs were stored in a three ring binder in protective negative 8.5x11 archival pages. The binder was in a bankers box and probably has not seen the light of day for 30 years. I did not scan them. I paid a ton to a professional lab to scan them and looking at them now, there is a ton of them with these markings. I think it was during scanning. I am going to take the negs to another place and have them scanned there as well to see if it shows up both places.

With all of that info, and knowing that you had the scans done at a "professional" lab, I agree with your decision to have another lab look at them. And given that the poor results appear on a whole bunch of the negs then I agree it was likely the labs issue, particularly as you state the negs were in archival sleeves in the dark. My suggestion would be to take the results of those scans to another lab and explain the issue, including how so many turned out the same. Then have them only scan a couple - so you don't spend big bucks! If you have a large order in the offing then most professional businesses confident in their abilities to produce what you need will be prepared to do the first samples for free to show you what they can accomplish. Then see if they can produce better results. If they do, I only hope you can get a refund from the first lab.

EDIT: Also ask the new lab to check the negs with what might be a more professional loupe or hardware than you have with perhaps more sensitive software and magnification, particularly if their results end up with the same issues. Just a thought.

Keep us posted!

[photodrawken]

Please keep us informed about this. I've done a hell of a lot of film photography in my life, and I can't recall seeing anything quite like that.

Did you ask the original scanning company what they think those streaks are?

Those streaks don't really look like physical abuse, so I'm not surprised you can't see any physical damage to the negatives. I'm leaning toward some kind of light leakage -- either in the film canister, or in the camera, or during the development process.

[fndooley]

Thanks Ken. I have not gone back to the original scan company yet. Reason being, this was a $958 scan job. So in my mind and for my budget - big bucks. Want to have my ducks in a row before walking back in the door. Spent too much money to just let it slide. I had thought about your in camera or development theory, and given that these negs are 30+ years old, it may have been ever so slight back then that it went unnoticed, but over time - well you never know. And I would think that I could still pick it up on the negs. Next step it to take this exact same pic that you guys are looking at to another lab for scanning. If it comes back with the same streaks - then it has to be something that was done in the camera or in development. If not - then I have different conversation to have to have with the lab that this did this scanning.

[MarkZ]

Next step it to take this exact same pic that you guys are looking at to another lab for scanning. If it comes back with the same streaks - then it has to be something that was done in the camera or in development. If not - then I have different conversation to have to have with the lab that this did this scanning.

Exactly, that is what I would do. I have never had film scanned professionally but have scanned hundreds of negatives and slides well over forty years old myself. I have not encountered streaks such as in you example. I've seen lots of scratches and dust and, at times, ghosts produced by the scanner. My guess is that the streaks are from the scanner and I hope you can get a free rescan if your testing shows this is not part of the film.

[TimW]

Those lines look suspiciously like clear vinyl neg sleeve production lines or ripples. fndooley, did you remove the negatives from their protective pages before sending them to the lab for scanning ?

[fndooley]

no I did not. I took them in a three ring binder to the lab, all still neatly stored within the protective pages. you think they scanned them without removing them?

[df]

Another scanning service will likely give you much better results (or contact the original scanning service and ask if they can fix this). This is caused when something (dirt or some of the negative itself) encroaches on the calibration area of the scanner. Basically this is scanner operator error. Either the scanner needs to be cleaned or someone is setting up the batch incorrectly. Surprising considering how much you paid to get these scanned.

If you look at a number of scans side by side, or one over the other, you should see a number of these show up with the same errors.

[fndooley]

you are right Dan, it did show up repeatedly, but in no apparent pattern. I am having another scan done of the exact same neg strip by a different lab, then I will have what I need to go back and revisit the lab that did all the work. it was so expensive because it was hundreds of negs.

[TimW]

fndooley, I think Dan is on target too, but I still think those straight lines are most likely caused by the irregularities in the clear plastic page protector. Here's hoping you can get your money back or at least a proper scan for what you paid.

[brucet]

I recently purchased a 45 year collection of a high quality magazine on two CD's. 325 magazines.The magazine is know for it's high quality images. Many of the images in the E versions have a very similar pattern of vertical 'stripes'. My guess is that it's a version of Moire. If the scanning setup is not spot on then these artifacts will appear. It's a while since I did much scanning but if my brain serves me correctly it has something to do with the dpi settings.

My vote is for some lazy person has simply done a quick and nasty job when they scanned them.

good luck.

[fndooley]

well, I have all the ammo I need now and headed into the lab tomorrow. will let everyone know. thanks for all the input!