Best work flow for DV NTSC video to HD web format?

[PeterG]

Hi,

I've purchased VS X9 (Ultimate) and I'm about to start converting numerous DV NTSC videos for sharing on the web. I've captured from my Sony Digital 8 tapes using ScenalyzerLive. All the captures are saved as avi files. The videos are 720x480, Frame Rate 29.75, interlaced.

I have setup VS Project Properties as: MPEG-4, 1280 x 720, 29.97fps, LFF, H.264 5,000 kbps.

For the clip, I have selected Distort Clip in the Attributes. I then set the Video Track to "Original Size". I've done this so that I don't get upscaling. This leaves a black border all around the video, which is what I expected.

I then want to share as MPEG-4, using 1280 x 720, H.264, frame-based (progressive). This allows me to share the video online.

However, I want to make sure I have the best settings for both the VS Project Settings, and the final render (share) settings. I'm thinking I should go for a higher kbps in the projects since I will also view the videos on our large LCD tv. But I don't want to overkill that setting. Also, with rendering the final file in MPEG-4, does it benefit to go high on the kbps? And should I render at 29.97fps, 30fps, or higher(if it would give a better looking video).

Thanks,

Peter

[asik1]

Welcome peter,
I don't know ScenalyzerLive but did you transfer your DV with a firewire or transcode them thru USB device?
Are those DV's shot as 4:3 or wide screen?
your answers could affect the correct workflow.

[PeterG]

Welcome peter,
I don't know ScenalyzerLive but did you transfer your DV with a firewire or transcode them thru USB device?
Are those DV's shot as 4:3 or wide screen?
your answers could affect the correct workflow.

Thanks asik1 . . .

The videos were captured via firewire and are 4:3.

To clarify, I am keeping the original 4:3 format and placing the video in the project where the properties are 1280 x 720. Basically, using that as a container so that I can render out at 1280 x 720 in HD format that I will post online via YouTube, Vimeo, etc.

Here is a screen shot of what I am setting up.



I should clarify, that the question is more directed at what would be the best project and render settings specific to FPS and KBPS.

Project setting:

• MPEG-4
  1280 x 720
  29.97fps
  Lower Field First
  H.264
  5,000 kbps

Should I keep the FPS at 29.97? I assume that I should keep the Lower Frame First since the original clip is interlaced. I know that increasing the kbps higher than 5,000 may give me better quality, but what would be the ideal kbps without overkill?

Share setting:

• MPEG-4
  1280 x 720
  29.97fps
  Frame-Based
  H.264
  5,000 kbps

I want to render out as 1280 x 720 and my understanding is that H.264 is best profile to use. Using frame-based for viewing on PC. Should I keep the FPS at 29.97? And, as with the question regarding kbps in the project setting, what would be the ideal kbps for preparing the video for sharing on the web?

Thanks again

Peter

[Ken Berry]

Of course you should keep the FPS at its original rate! What would happen if you changed it to something else? If you changed it to (PAL) 25 fps, five frames per second would be thrown away and the result would be slightly jerky. If you increased it to 60 full fps (or more accurately 59.94), those extra frames would be simply copies made of existing ones. So again the end result would look rather strange.

Just a minor query: what set the Project Properties to Lower Field First, but the end properties to Frame Based? Nothing wrong with that, I guess. But if you set the Project Properties to Frame Based from the start, you would then be able to go to Share and use Same As Project Settings to produce your final mpeg-4 with the properties you wanted.

I too used to shoot all my old digital video in DV 4:3 then 16:9, and like you converted my older analog video to DV using firewire. The result was admittedly better it would have been if that conversion had been to mpeg-2. I made these into DVDs (which of course involved an mpeg-2 conversion anyway). And the result was pretty good on old-style TVs. But not so wonderful on my 46" Samsung which upscales DVDs somewhat. So don't expect too much from your own viewing of these clips on your HDTV, even using a HD format like mpeg-4/H.264. As the old saying goes, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear...

In that regard I am also wondering where you got the 5000 kbps bitrate. Nothing wrong with it, and I recall back in my DV-to-DVD conversions, it used to be said that you should not expect much improvement in terms of final quality by using a bitrate higher than 6000 kbps -- though I in any case used to use the full 8000 kbps because my projects were relatively short and still fitted on a single layer DVD using that rate.

Have you actually done any experiments with any of the possible variations and watched the final on your HDTV? Using a higher bitrate nominally increases quality (though with old SD DV footage this may be minimal), it also increases the size of the final video. But given that you don't intend to burn the video to a disc this should not matter as far as displaying on a HDTV is concerned. How it may affect web display, I simply don't know as I don't share any of my video on the web. However AFAIK things like YouTube can handle higher bitrates than 5000 kbps. But hopefully someone with more experience in posting to the web will step in here with their own views.

[PeterG]

Hi Ken,

Appreciate the response.

Of course you should keep the FPS at its original rate! . . .

For some reason, I was thinking that the higher frame rate may be more beneficial in deinterlacing.

Just a minor query: what set the Project Properties to Lower Field First, but the end properties to Frame Based? . . .

Believing that setting to Lower Field First was required to deinterlace the source video.

. . . So don't expect too much from your own viewing of these clips on your HDTV, even using a HD format like mpeg-4/H.264. As the old saying goes, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear...

Not expecting too much, that is why I am trying to keep the original size of the video within the 1280 x 720 frame. Hoping to find a good work flow to reduce quality degradation as much as possible.

. . . In that regard I am also wondering where you got the 5000 kbps bitrate.

From Vimeo, regarding best kbps for preparing SD sourced videos.

Have you actually done any experiments with any of the possible variations and watched the final on your HDTV? . . .

Not at this stage. Will do so later after I find the right process for sharing on the web. 90% of the time the videos, which are often very short, will be viewed online.

I will do some experimenting with setting the project to the same settings I require for the output. And will try higher than 5,000 to eek out more quality rendering.

Thanks!

Peter

[asik1]

Peter, you should try 2 things. Original size and Fit to height. than watch the video on your TV for any artifacts.
Bare in mind that outdoor sunny shots will always look much better than indoor candle light ones.

** If you like to avoid the black frame, consider placing your video as overlay and a background on the video track.

[PeterG]

Peter, you should try 2 things. Original size and Fit to height. than watch the video on your TV for any artifacts.
Bare in mind that outdoor sunny shots will always look much better than indoor candle light ones.

** If you like to avoid the black frame, consider placing your video as overlay and a background on the video track.

Hi asik1,

Original size is the only way this will work. Upsizing to fit height simply loses quality. Tried that with various other video editing tools, but no success. I'm fine with keeping the original size. And fine with the black background as well. Just trying to find the right output for balanced sharing online, and watching on my HD tv.

Thanks,

Peter