X8 Crashing while rendering

[lata]

Hi David

The hotfix for Windows 7 CVSX8 allowed the program to launch, it did not change any version details.
Windows 7 - On a new install of X8 I would advise to run the hotfix to get the program running, then allow the program to automatically install Service Packs, you can choose Check for Updates, but SP3 would be provided within a few launches of X8.

Windows 10 -- CVSX8 does not need the hotfix and will launch ok, so again allow the program to install the SP3
The latest version being 18.6.0.6
To confuse things there are several service packs available but not required as the new SP3 includes all updates.
No problems if we allow the program to install SP's automatically.

Last month I upgraded to Windows 10, I did try a year ago with bad experiences. This time things seem to be working ok. I have re-installed x8 and can confirm the comment above.
I have been running X8 for testing but not really edited any projects nor tried to burn a DVD, but I do not have problems accessing the burner module, and no need to say I have not had any crashes.
I will run through the create iso today to see if I have any issues………

Inga’s first post indicates crashes when selecting the Disc option from Share.
Is that still the case or is the crashes at a different point, maybe when rendering in burner module.

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,
Thanks for the reply. I've been encouraging the students to use the forum, but they are reluctant - complicated they say, and then there's the willing tutor (me) to assist. Inga is the first to try it directly, and I'm now taking a more pro-active stance to try and alleviate the frustrations she's expressing privately.

As to the problem, a brief synopsis
- Inga is running win10 and has since Aug15. It was an in-place upgrade. Her X8 installation dates from April 15, seemed to be Ok until April 16, but there were family distractions in the 1st 3 months of this year (a wedding to organise) so maybe she did not use it to burn a disk in that time
- the crashing problem is recent (last 3 months) and seems to be progressive. Inga first noted it when she was working on a video of her daughter's hens night and wedding. When I first saw it, the crash would occur when the menu had been done and the disk burn was started. If the action choice was to create a disk image - also from the module step 3 - it seemed to work fine. Hence the workaround I mentioned previously. And then it began to crash when the DVD option was chosen and lastly when the disk icon was selected. When I persuaded Inga to use the forum I mentioned that one of the things that may be recommended was a re-install. So when you suggested that, she did it.
- after the re-install I verified in class that the updates were applied and also checked the disk selection functions when no clips were in the main timeline, and that was all OK and reported.
- subsequently she reported the burn a disk Ok but could only read it on 1 out of 3 players (also posted in this thread)
- within the last few days, the crashing has started again.
- I see her PC weekly at best (class - everyone gets something out diagnosis), sometimes a bit less often, to do an 'in place' check.

Inga thinks this is probably the result of something she did. But since she's been burning disks OK for some time I am not sure of that. The evidence seems to suggest something recent may be slowly corrupting the X8 burn module enough to instantly crash the program. The software was the 1st suspect, and thus my queries about hotfixes etc and other things re VS operating under win10 that frankly I haven't paid much attention to (beyond being aware they existed) as I don't run that OS platform.

When I next see her (31 Aug), I plan to:
- check the data on the disks she has burned (DVD or AVCHD)?
- check the functionality of the PC disk burner using windows explorer - to write and read/play some video clip files to a blank DVD. Software that does that function which is NOT VS. If that works OK, then the burner would be cleared and we are back to the X8 burn module in it's present state (as opposed to what it was say 6months ago).

Anything else you can suggest would be appreciated. [Edit update] For example, updated burner drivers for windows 10?

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

I think we have explored all the options to fix any Video Studio program issues.
Really running out of ideas..

Do you think the CD/DVD Rom drive is having problems running on Windows 10.

Maybe visit the laptop or disc drives manufacturers web site for info?

But first check the Device Manager for any errors, usually shows a yellow flag.

I found some details regarding the IDE/ATA/ controllers and ATA Channel 0 and 1
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-H ... d-p/453913

It could of course be a faulty disc drive,

I have to say I am now stepping out of my comfort zone.

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,

A faulty or not connecting DVD drive is what I'm aiming to prove (or disprove). Altho, as you say, a driver fault is another possibility, maybe even probability, and I'll check that.

Interesting reading on that link. Don't know if that will affect her - Inga runs toshiba (older machine, internal DVD drive) and dell (newer, external USB DVD drive) laptops. Nevertheless, a burn DVD from explorer on either one would certainly establish whether or not windows could see the DVD drive (my last post, plan, item 2).

None of my machines allow me to easily disconnect the DVD drive and establish just what VS would do if the burn module was invoked and 1) the DVD burner physically was not connected; or 2) windows could not identify the DVD burner as connected Occasionally I have had that happen when plugging in a usb memory stick and cycling it and/or the PC was needed to fix the issue (see the device in explorer), but it's never happened with any internal ATA or SATA Hdd drives. This seems to be one scenario which may cause VS to immediately crash, altho I would expect an error message In the burn module that said something like no drive connected if that was the case.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi

Whilst we are clutching at straws….
Nero installed InCd, that program did take control of our disc drives making them inaccessible to other programs, although I do not think that would be a cause to crash the program.
But check inga’s laptop to make sure InCd is not installed.

[Davidk]

Update from Inga - Nero InCd not installed.

[Cerafina]

Hi

I agree it is strange, it could be because of using an older project, maybe created before X8 SP3, very difficult to prove?
Shouldn't happen???

Rendering the project to a video file is the way i have always done, along with others on the forum.
It is the best way, overall takes the same amount of time, burning does not recode the video retaining quality.
creating an ISO saves creating those coasters, can burn multiple discs al same quality.

Just to inform - this has nothing to do with being an older project. I can regenerate the issue, if I start a completely new project - containing a 10 second video. IF I go from the project to "create dvd", then the sw crashes. If i start with a blank timeline, I can choose "create dvd" and then add the projects - and then no sw crash
/Cerafina

[lata]

Hi

I agree it is strange, it could be because of using an older project, maybe created before X8 SP3, very difficult to prove?
Shouldn't happen???

Rendering the project to a video file is the way i have always done, along with others on the forum.
It is the best way, overall takes the same amount of time, burning does not recode the video retaining quality.
creating an ISO saves creating those coasters, can burn multiple discs al same quality.

Just to inform - this has nothing to do with being an older project. I can regenerate the issue, if I start a completely new project - containing a 10 second video. IF I go from the project to "create dvd", then the sw crashes. If i start with a blank timeline, I can choose "create dvd" and then add the projects - and then no sw crash
/Cerafina

Does the program crash with any type of video used, or is it specific to a particular type?

The trouble is that we cannot replicate the crashes. So there must be something different in what we are doing or the files we are using.
Otherwise we have to consider that the pc may have issues, different operating systems, different programs installed, conflicts, codecs installed, viruses?
The list is endless, but clearly you and others do have issues and there must be a reason?

[Davidk]

After class today, this is an update on Inga's problems. There were 2: 1) X8 crashing whilst rendering/burning a disk; and 2) a test CD burned could be read on only 1 of 3 Pc's. Taking these in reverse order, and the explanation is detailed, with some corollary questions arising.

Base datum - affected Toshiba laptop runs windows 10.

The CD/DVD read issue.
This issue has 2 parts. 1 - that the burner was or was not functioning properly, and 2 - that the video files were burned correctly in a DVD format to the disk that was supposedly not playing on several PC's.

The 1st implication of this was that a malfunctioning CD/DVD burner could be impacting on X8 when creating a disk.
The test regime involved burning and reading/playing a video file (several in fact: .mod, .mp4) to a CD and a DVD - both initially blank - using 2 laptops (Inga's and mine) and either playing it on the other PC, adding another file to it and playing that back both the latter on Inga's Toshiba laptop. This action involved software that was NOT Corel video studio, to islolate any cause or effect. The tool used was in fact windows explorer, which:
- allows files to be copied to the DVD folder; and then
- by right clicking on the DVD folder folder allows a "burn to disk" action in the list presented.
When the blank disks were first initiated under explorer, an option of file format is presented: selected the default CD/DVD item, which allows more files to be added/burned as needed. What that allowed was the burning of a video file on a known good laptop, which was then readable/playable on the Toshiba. Further tests then burned an additional file from the Toshiba to the same DVD, which was then playable on the same PC.

This established that the Toshiba burner was functioning correctly. It could read and play disks burned on another PC, burn additional files to that disk and then play them back correctly.

Reading and playing the burned disks was done using the VLC program, which I installed on the laptop just for this purpose.
Corollary Q1: is there a way to configure windows media player to play a DVD? Opening media player, it says there's no disk on the player even when there is.

2nd item - Playing the burned CD/DVD.
The affected item would not play on the Toshiba laptop, nor the player of a home entertainment system. I suspected that this disk may have been created as an AVCHD disk, which would burn on a standard burner but not be playable on it. However, the windows explorer presentation of files on that disk was what I expected of a DVD - the usual Video_TS folder containing .vob .bup files etc. So VS appears to have burned the disk correctly. So why would it not play?

Much thought later suggested that the windows auto play configuration may have been changed. I took this shot of my win7 control panel auto play screen, and there are several DVD options, one of which is do nothing.

I've asked Inga to look and advise what she sees here.

X8 crashes whilst rendering/burning a disk.
This was the original fault, and when I first saw it, that's what it did - crashed when the Share, disk/DVD option was selected. Since then, X8 has been re-installed several times in an attempt to isolate just what was causing the problem. I found several items on the current installation.

1. Opening X8, nothing in timeline, and then opening the Share/disk icon/DVD burn module did not crash the program at any of these steps, even with X8 in its un-updated form.

2. In it's current installed form, the Help about indicated that the current installation had not been updated. Inga needed some convincing that VS did not automatically update, but needed a 'push' - select Help check for updates and install them when found. She believed when she saw my X8 installed updated version compared to the version on her PC. Microsoft has created an expectation with windows, esp win10, that everything updates automatically. She's going to do that VS update tonight (as are several other students in the class)

3. Inga has been in the habit of working on her project files - large ones - and then burning them to disk, one item on the disk, when she was ready. In short, the timeline had a project file in it when the burn module was opened, and in that state the selection tape had the vsp item showing. I suspect she did not really realise that it was the vsp, and not a rendered video file.

Last year, this method worked fine. Since April it hasn't. I have a suspicion that the MS updates that caused all the problems earlier this year may have been the cause, but this is beyond proof at this stage. Explaining the known issue of problems with the VS burn module of burning whilst rendering, and thus the "recommended" approach of creating a rendered file before attempting the create a disk, took a while. A major obstacle was that her past practice worked even though it apparently was a render whilst burn using a vsp in the burn module. I suspect that it may have worked because there was only one item in the module list.

Conclusions (so far) . . . in summary, a probable software corruption fixed by re-install, issues involving user knowledge of updates and disk burn workarounds
1. there was a crashing issue with X8 trying to burn a DVD - captured screenshot in 1st post. Probably caused by a software corruption somewhere, now overtaken by re-installs trying to diagnose it; doesn't happen now.
2. re-installs or even 1st installs need manually updating immediately: something that needs emphasis for even reasonably experienced users.
3. the CD/DVD burner in the laptop is working correctly. 2 corollary questions remain regarding
a. why windows would not play that DVD when an application player did.
b. how to configure windows media player to play a DVD from the program user interface.
4. The workaround (render the vsp before attempting to burn a disk) for the burn module issue of failing when rendering a vsp within the burn module needs wider broadcast. Fixing the issue so it did not cause so much pain would be better.

I think I've got it all . . . but I've thought that before too.
Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

A few comments… a lot going on here….
1 / The original error of crashing the program when trying to access the burner module seems to be fixed.
2 / you mention Inga using a timeline project or VSP to burn a disc, that is of course ok but as you know we do advise first creating a Mpeg2 compliant DVD video file. It is something I have always done, the only time I burnt a VSP was for testing purposes.
This is my guide from vs8 / vs9 days, 10years +
http://lata.me.uk/video_studio/guides/q ... e_mpeg.htm

Hopefully Inga will use the recommended process for her future work.

3 / The reference to “burning and reading / playing” several video .mod and mp4 files was a little confusing as some conversion to Mpeg2 has to be done to burn a disc, unless you have simply burnt a data disc, the raw files would probably be playable on a pc but not TV.
However you do mention using a DVD Folder containing the Video_TS folder.

4 / I am sure we have recommended using Video Studio to create an ISO file, play that using VLC Media Player, then use Windows not Video Studio to burn the disc. That would rule out any problems that VS has with the DVD Drive.

DVD Playback
On a computer we need a DVD / CD Disc Drive, if the pc is an older model it may only have a CD drive not DVD drive, that will cause playback problems.
The disc burnt on a pc should also play on that pc, exception -- burning a AVCHD disc only requires the DVD burner but playback needs Bluray disc drive.

Using re-writable discs DVD-RW or DVD+RW may not play on some DVD Players and TV DVD players.

CVSX Installations
Doing a clean install or new installation and running the program will prompt us to automatically install any service packs available.
Usually I get a prompt to download after the second launch of the program.

For CVSX8 there are several service packs available, Windows 7 users should only download the Hot Fix allowing the program to run. Then SP 3 will be offered as an update after a few program starts.
Do not install any other service packs, if in doubt Check for Updates and About for version number.

CVSX9 is similar in that it will automatically prompt us to install a service pack (Corel VideoStudio X9.5 Update)
New purchases of CVSX9 (since end July 2016) will be provided with SP9.5 included, to date there are no other Service Packs available.
At least that’s my experience.
This post refers:-
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58892

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,
Thanks for your help. I agree the original problem seems to be fixed, and unfortunately the diagnosis action (inc re-install) seems to have destroyed any evidence that there was as to cause.

Your item 2.
Inga's past success in burning a DVD from a project in the timeline was the main hurdle to get over in recommending she change to a "best practice". And I suspect that success was because she had only one item - the vsp - in the burn module clip list. When I first started using VS, I had failures in this space too, but with a clip list that included both vsp's video and video files. Experimentation led me to the recommended practice some time before I saw it mentioned in the forum.

Your item 3.
a) What I was trying to do here was establish the burn and read status of the burner, not whether the disk played in the 1st instance. Burning video clips and reading them back on the same burner, and between PC's did prove that the burner and the burner driver was OK, and with tolerance for playing 'other' disks. I tested both CD and DVD platters in this process.
b) as you know the files structures on playable DVD and AVCHD/Blu-ray disks are quite different. I was concerned that an AVCHD disk may have been mistakenly created in lieu of a DVD unit, and checked the file structure to verify that. The files on the disk were DVD files. I was mystified then why windows would not play a DVD in the drive, when a player app (VLC) happily opened the disk and played it. Long after class I realised what it might be (that windows autoplay setting) and emailed Inga about it. She tells me this morning that both her laptops are in the computer shop, and she's forwarded my email to the tech. I guess I'll know more about that next class/next week.

Your item 4 re updates
I've personally noted the message box about "service pack x is now available" appearing sometimes on VS start, but do observe that it can take some time to appear. In this case, Inga had re-installed X8, and when I saw it yesterday, the version was something like 18.0.0.185. No update message had appeared. So despite several X8 starts, that update process had not kicked in and she had forgotten the check for updates imperative. For comparison, a new user had installed X9 Pro a few weeks back, has been using it regularly to go by his questions in class, and he only did updates when I mentioned the need for it in class in the last week.

So I think Corel needs to spend some effort on making the update process obvious, faster and more intuitive, if it's not automatic.

Your item 4 re the burner itself.
Agreed that a CD-only burner would present issues for a DVD, but I have never seen a CD-only burner in any of the laptops people bring to class, and they can be quite old. Inga's Toshiba would have to be at least 5+years old, my HP is 4 years old and both have DVD burners in them. Whether the disk platter is a CD or DVD should not matter as DVD burners are backwards compatible and the only issues of note should be capacity and burn rate.

Corel action on burn time
One issue that arose in class discussion of this problem was the appearance of failure during burning a disk, specifically at the end of the burn. Everyone has noticed it, but it varies from machine to machine. Here there is the same sort of delay that occurs when a project is just rendered - when the process marker reaches 99% and stays there for an extended time. In the disk case, as a retired techie I know there are things like disk run out etc that need to be burned as well, which can take time. But the normal users think that extended time at the end of a disk burn means it's failed. If it's really extended, failed it probably is. And if it takes more than a few seconds, more often than not, their abort attempts at that stage do mean its failed. Corel may not be able to speed up file cleanup and the finalise disk process, but messages to advise whats' going on would help a users attitude to the program a lot.

Davidk