Composite mpg file very poor quality

[Longshanks]

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I do understand the links between quality, bit rate, file size etc. My point in relation to creation of video file was perhaps more esoteric in wondering why the prog would second guess that the video file created would be intended for DVD (DL or otherwise) with all the constraints therein??

I have now rendered another video file at 6000kbps which equates to 6.5gb file size. The quality is still quite poor, fuzzy around the edges etc.

I will try using 7500kbps but frustrating that it's so hot and miss, Russian Roulette etc.

Ie 8000kbps induces some internal reduction in compression reducing quality and only generating 6.8 gb file size.
6000kbps does similar process reducing bit rate and size to 6.5gb.

In both scenarios there was scope to render at higher rate and produce bigger?

[Longshanks]

Really confused now.

Chose 7500kbps as suggested. The net visual result is same , sort of ripply, faint wavy lines running through and some fuzziness around edges. However, the file size is 6.4Gb which is smaller than the file created when I selected 6000kbps earlier. What's all that about??

Thanks

[canuck]

Could you please post exactly what you are doing ste-by-step? Post the properties of the source files and the properties of the final mpg file. Also post the settings that you are using.

[Longshanks]

Process
1. Used Panasonic Camcorder to record footage.
2. Camcorder saves clips as MP4 if saving to hard drive rather than sd card (Guess this is commonplace)
3. Used Video to Video prog to convert multiple mp4 files to multiple mpeg 2 files. Use the default settings on Video to Video for this task.
4. Crank up VS12.
5. Load said mpeg 2 files.
6. Position said mpeg 2 files in timeline.
7. Edit these, enter transitions blah blah.
8. Hit share, create video file etc. At this point it is difficult to emulate exactly same properties as individual mpeg 2 (see below)
9. Create disk option, DVD, create chapters, add menu, music, picture etc.
10. Burn DVD. At this stage I get the message that “total size is larger than chosen project” I assume this appears when you’ve added extras to original video file. In any event I hit to continue and burns to DL in about 60 minutes.
Properties
Multiple mpeg 2
Attributes 24 bits 320*240
Data rate variable bit rate
Final consolidated mpeg 2
Attributes 24 bits 720*576
Data rate variable bit rate (max 7500kbps)
Settings
MP4
Just use Camcorder default (I also note that VS12 doesn’t recognise the mp4 files if you try and load them. Even if you select mpeg 4 in the files type you still get message saying that “file doesn’t contain video data”?)
Individual mpeg 2
I just used default in Video to Video prog as above. End result shown above.
Final consolidated mpeg 2
See point 8 in process above. With the project in timeline I select share/create video file/custom/options/general tab- standard frame size 720*576, display aspect ratio 16.9 then compression tab-PAL DVD, move quality indicator to 100%, video data rate variable and now tried 8000, 6000, 7500kbps. Please note the general tab
I NOW REALISE THAT I HAVE SLECTED VARIABLE AND NOT CONSTANT BUT HAVE USED THIS SETTING FOR EONS.

Thanks for reading this.

(Haven't included every single property just main ones?)

[canuck]

From your post:

Multiple mpeg 2
Attributes 24 bits 320*240

If this is the output from your mp4 to mpg conversion, then it is low quality video since high quality DVD video is 720x576 (for PAL). Your final conversion from the 320x240 to 720x576 will add even more low quality since a lot of extra pixels have to be inserted.

Obviously the default setting in your original conversion program is giving you the poor quality. Use the setting for high quality DVD mpg if it even has it. If not get a better conversion program as was suggested in an earlier post.
Also, adding menus, etc will increase the file size.

[Ken Berry]

I just used default in Video to Video prog as above. End result shown above.

If this is the 320 x 240 you quoted above, then that is the source of your problem right there. It is a very small frame size and poor quality to start with, regardless of what it might look like when you play it on your computer. The 720 x 576 on the other hand is the right frame size for DVD-compatible mpeg-2. I assume you live in a PAL country. But expanding low quality 320 x 240 up to 720 x 576 will NOT improve its quality -- quite the opposite. It will magnify every defect there and widen out what is on each frame. Surely your video converter has settings which will allow you to set it to produce 720 x 576 video from your mpeg-4 originals?

8. Hit share, create video file etc. At this point it is difficult to emulate exactly same properties as individual mpeg 2 (see below)
9. Create disk option, DVD, create chapters, add menu, music, picture etc.
10. Burn DVD. At this stage I get the message that “total size is larger than chosen project” I assume this appears when you’ve added extras to original video file.

Take one step back here. When you have taken Step 8 and produced a new video file, and then moved on to Step 9, and the burning module opens, do you already have something in the burning timeline? If so, then it is NOT your new video file but the project file. This will still require converting to an actual video file and will use the Properties set in the cogwheel Options icon in the bottom left of the burning screen. It also accounts for why you get the message that the total file is larger and why the arbitrary automatic change downwards in file size takes place.

What you have to do after step 8 is either (a) create a New Project (File > New Project). Don't bother about giving it a name. The objective is just to empty the timeline; OR (b) when you take Step 9, first delete whatever is in the burning timeline and then hit the Add Media button in the top left of the burning screen, navigate to where your new video file is stored and add that to the burning timeline instead. Make sure that in that Options cogwheel icon, the box next to "Do not convert compliant MPEG files" is ticked. This will ensure no further conversion will take place.

All this also assumes that in Step 8 you are creating the new file with a bitrate around 6000 to 6500 kbps so that the new file is less than 8.3 GB in size (less because you want to leave a little space for creation of a menu).

I also note that VS12 doesn’t recognise the mp4 files if you try and load them. Even if you select mpeg 4 in the files type you still get message saying that “file doesn’t contain video data”?

The simple reason for this is that mpeg-4 had not been invented when VS 12 came out, or was still being developed. So an old program like VS 12 simply was not programmed to recognise mp4 as a video format.

The bottom line is that if your video converter cannot be altered to produce a larger frame size, then you should change the video converter.

EDIT: I see that canuck has beaten me while I was typing my longer answer! Thankfully we have said exactly the same thing; though hopefully my extra bits will also be helpful.

[Longshanks]

Many thanks to both of you. Yes reside in Reino Unido.

Will look in details at your analysis and diagnosis tomorrow.

Just two immediate thought.

1. Even with the poor 320*240 it's odd that the multiple mpg 2 files do no display the visual imperfections shown on the final mpg.

2. Apropos Format Factory: Aside from all the dire warnings given by my Norton Utilities when attempting to download....I note that it only seems to let you output to mpg 1. That can't be right surely?

[Ken Berry]

I note that it only seems to let you output to mpg 1. That can't be right surely?

No. When you select the MPG option, there are a variety of choices, including in the DVD section -- see where my red arrow points in the attached photo. You'll note moreover that for the DVD Large option, it uses 6000 kbps as the default bitrate.

[Longshanks]

Ok I'll take another look manana.
Thanks

[asik1]

"1. Used Panasonic Camcorder to record footage."
Name this camcorder, as you might not using it correctly to begin with.

[canuck]

"1. Used Panasonic Camcorder to record footage."
Name this camcorder, as you might not using it correctly to begin with.

As posted in his first post it is a Panasonic SHDR 86 (Panasonic SDR 86" ??) which is very old and actually does not create HD mp4 video. That is where the low quality video originates I think

[asik1]

"1. Used Panasonic Camcorder to record footage."
Name this camcorder, as you might not using it correctly to begin with.

As posted in his first post it is a Panasonic SHDR 86 (Panasonic SDR 86" ??) which is very old and actually does not create HD mp4 video. That is where the low quality video originates I think

indeed, from here http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic- ... ard/specs/
I see that its Effective Video Resolution - 520 KP so, as crapy as 2$ webcam at the dollar store.
and on a 50" screen....

[Longshanks]

Oh dear I see my dear ole camcorder is being savaged now. All I know is that:

If I use the sd card then they come over as mpeg 2

If I use the internal memory then the files once transferred to my PC show up as MP4

Have been using camcorder warts n'all for about 8 years and never experienced this issue with the poor quality video file.

Amen

[Longshanks]

Albeit not HD mpg4. Still not the end of civilisation as we know it though.

[canuck]

1. Even with the poor 320*240 it's odd that the multiple mpg 2 files do no display the visual imperfections shown on the final mpg.

When you convert the 320x240 video to the final 720x576 mpg video to magnify any imperfections in the 320x240 video which you may not have noticed because of the small image.

What are the properties of the mp4 files you get from the camcorder?