VLC and Blu-ray disks

[Davidk]

All true - and I did prowl the BDMV folder of my (leap in the dark and hope it's OK) burnt disk, and established that VLC could play the individual files: I mentioned that in a post. But doing that doesn't "check" the presentation as a viewer with a player would see it.

Before I discovered VLC would play an iso image of a DVD, I wasted so many disks for dumb errors I missed in authoring - minor spelling things in titles, font sizes in menu, the wrong music in a menu and so on. At <50cents apiece that's passable abeit very irritating, but when a single disk costs $5+, and getting them is like squeezing blood from a stone that's gone walkabout, that sort of "winging it" approach is unacceptable if there is a means of doing QA on the whole package without burning a disk. Which is what I use VLC for on DVD's, specifically by opening the .iso file. This was my first venture into distributing HD video class projects by Bluray, and my main independent QA tool misfires.

I've looked over the suggestions in the thread for BD players, and all of them seem to have an issue playing a menu and a logo. Ick. Ken mentioned a payable player which did play menus etc - have to check that.

Davidk

PS Carefully comparing how VLC plays a DVD iso file compared what I saw when it tried to open the BD iso file, I think VLC is breaking (in the BD iso file) as it tries to open the logo. Which would be the first playable item on the disk, followed by the menu, and then each of the 4 clips indexed to the menu.

Opening the DVD file, there's a brief flash of a grey screen followed by the logo playing. Opening the BD file there's a brief flash of a grey screen, and the software stalls.

[lata]

Hi David

You could try Corel Win DVD (Trial) to see if that has been improved, as I mentioned I have the original / old trial that does play Bluray Folders including menus. I just cannot understand why Corel removed that option but they did.

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,
The fanfare for WinDVD Pro 11 looks good, and the trial auto detects a BD disk in the drive and plays it. But the trial doesn't play even a standard DVD iso image, and looking thru the help, files supported page, there's no mention of it there either: which I infer to mean iso image files are not supported in the paid version as well.

Playing a folder doesn't mean much in a QA sense - the disk is burnt by then and any errors detected are set in 'stone' at that point, and the whole purpose of playing an image file was to find and fix them before burning a disk.

Sigh.

Davidk

[Ken Berry]

Playing a folder doesn't mean much in a QA sense - the disk is burnt by then and any errors detected are set in 'stone' at that point, and the whole purpose of playing an image file was to find and fix them before burning a disk.

You seem to be missing the essential point. On the final page of the VS burning module you have three main options: (1) burn a BD disc; (2) "Burn" [i.e. create] a BD Folder; and (3) "Burn" [create] a BD ISO. Only option 1 results in an actual disc being burnt. Until I think VS X8, (2) was the only other option, with (3) being introduced at that stage. But as Trevor has tried to explain, an ISO file is really just a zipped version of a BD Folder. The folder is NOT a disc, but can be later burnt to an actual disc if you want, just as an ISO file can. And the purpose of the Folder is identical to what you use your ISO for i.e. first checking to see if everything has turned out OK before committing it to disc; and then being able to burn more discs at a later stage from the Folder (or ISO).

And as I have already said above, programs like Nero, Roxio, Ashampoo Burning Studio and freeware ImgBurn will burn a BD Folder to a disc, just as they will burn an ISO to disc.

[Davidk]

Hi ken,

I don't know that I am missing a point, and maybe that's because I've not been clear. The options in the burn module stage 3 are the same for both DVD and BD disks. So
1. I use the burn module to create a disk image in .iso form - for 2 reasons: a) to permit QA checking of the disk (actually the image of it, but the reality is that they are the same in practical terms) using a separate player; and b) when checked OK to provide a single checked source that I use to burn the actual disks from, using the VS tools option (burn from iso).

Folders to me are just container names for a collection of files relating to the same topic. And there are clearly folders of files on a disk. However, in my lexicon, a folder is not a burned/playable disk. So whether its for a DVD or a BD disk, folders are just not in my action sheet.

2. As a result, I either use the burn a disk option if I'm only going to create a single disk; or more commonly use the create disk image option, see point 1 above.

And I've never had an issue with creating an iso image or burning a disk from it using VS. However, I have noted quirks in how VS does things in the burn module. (eg, changing fonts and sizes in the menu texts 2nd stage occasionally goes funny and to rectify it means start over). So QA checking the created image using an independent (read not Corel, for preference) player to make sure the disk is as it is supposed to be, is what I mainly use a player for. And up to now, VLC has been that item. If I have to make changes, I can and have gone back and done that, and then re-authored the whole thing. But at this level that's all just replaceable bits, not a use-once and throw-away disk.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

A DVD Image (Iso) contains the same files as a DVD Folder, exactly the same files including the menu structure. Same goes for AVCHD or Bluray.

When I worked with DVD I always created the ISO as I could then burn that to disc without problems knowing the quality would be the same.

Now I work with HD, AVCHD or Bluray I found older versions Video Studio could not create Bluray ISO’s, I reverted to Creating the Folder option, again to play to check quality, then I used ImgBurn to burn the disc from the Folder.

I have been looking for a free media player that will play either HD ISO or Folders, seems easier to find players that support Folders rather than ISO’s at least that’s my finding. Because of that I create Folders, besides having easy access to the actual movie files located in the Stream folder is a benefit when testing. And indeed your students may find viewing the folder content / structure interesting.

Using Windows Explorer right click any ISO for Extract options

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for the response. It seems we use a player for the same reasons, only you've been there first.

Whilst I've used 6 of the last 9 versions of VS, I've only used DVD's in the burn module: 1) because DVD's were so cheap, 2) because the video sizes normally allowed that, altho in one case the production got to" disk 1 of 2" methods, and 3) the cameras only generated DVD-quality imagery. I've stayed away from AVCHD because of the player issue (need a BD player to read an AVCHD disk, even tho AVCHD files can be burned onto a 'normal' DVD disk having regard to data size limitations). Now however, the cameras are generating HD files normally (AVCHD or MP4), the class students all have them, and the visual difference is striking when editing a mix of files in one project - eg, .mod versus .mts. That spurred me to get a new HD camcorder.

So with camera upgrades came the need to present them differently as HD on disks and thus my march thru AVCHD and menus early in this thread cycle. The problem with players still exists but greatly diminished: household entertainment systems increasingly have BD players commonly fitted. But as outlined, the availability of BD disks had become a dominant criteria.

I followed up on Ken's commentary about folders: I burned the BD disk I have been working on, with menu and logo, to folders. And afterward, in the target drive, there was a BDMV folder with all the classic appearances of a windows explorer folder. For comparison, a screenshot of the actual BD disk in the drive looks like this in explorer:

and apart from the BDMV folder there, that certificate folder on it a subfolder but otherwise it is empty.

And as an experiment I used VLC update to 2.2.4 (latest, configured to show logos and menus and suppress the on-screen display (OSD) of path/filename) to open the BDMV folder that VS created on the target drive. I was expecting it to show me just the 1st video clip, but instead it did everything I had previously expected from a DVD .iso file: logo (once), then menu and with menu selection of individual clips, as prepared in the VS burn module. So, with a different approach and some humble pie, my QA tool works for the things I am looking for on BD disks too.

As to burning an actual disk once the folder image is confirmed OK, the extra time to create an iso image of the BD disk is not a great imposition: on X9 at least, it's worked well for me this time, and it then became a common source for burning multiple disks.

As to using a separate tool to burn from folders - I haven't heard of ImgBurn before - will look it up.

Thanks again,

Davidk

[JaySigel]

VLC will not play a 20 GB BD iso I just now created (I don't have my external BD-writer or discs with me). However, Cyberlink PowerDVD 15 (and they're now pushing version 16) loads and plays the BD-ISO as well as BD discs directly and quickly, with menus and everything. Remember, DVDs and BDs may look alike, but you can't play a BD in DVD player! It will say no disc.

[pepegota]

If you want a player that plays menus and is free, try Splash by Mirillis. You can upgrade for $20.
I do not know of its ISO capabilities as I have little use for ISO.

[lata]

If you want a player that plays menus and is free, try Splash by Mirillis. You can upgrade for $20.
I do not know of its ISO capabilities as I have little use for ISO.

Hi

The reason for playing Bluray Iso or Bluray Folders is to be able to check the quality of the video with menus before committing to disc.
That way we do not make any coasters.

At least thats my reason for having software that will do that.

[Davidk]

VLC as a check on the file before burning to disk is a QA measure: lots of little things like consistent audio levels, spelling errors etc, slip thru and make a good coaster when found, usually 1st play after burning. And - altho the default is to present the file path/name, and not play intro/clips, before menus - VLC settings can be made to revrse these effects: it does play an intro/menu, and the file name can be removed.

playing intro/menu
Tools --> preferences --> show settings: all
Input Codecs --> access modules --> DVD with menus
untick option "start directly in menu"
save and exit.

Removing the file name, which in the VLC argot, is an on-screen display (OSD)
Tools --> preferences --> select all
Video --> Subtitles/OSD
untick item "on screen display"
save and exit

Open VLC and play a file to confirm. Sometimes new versions seem to reverse these items and discreet toggling might be needed to get them right.

Davidk

[pepegota]

I check it out with Splash first on the computer and then on a RE disc, no need for ISO.

[canuck]

I check it out with Splash first on the computer and then on a RE disc, no need for ISO.

What is Splash? Never heard of it

[pepegota]

Splash is a Blu-Ray /DVD player that plays menus and is free or for $20 you can upgrade.
I make my movie. Then I play it in Flash to see how it looks. Then I burn (Imgburn) to a RW disc and check it
on the TV, if good then I burn the final product. Try it : https://mirillis.com/en/products/splash.html
It does the job without PowerDVD overhead.

[wally]

I’m doing similar workflow. Before I burn BD I check ISO first.
However, I mount the created ISO (in Windows 10) as a separate drive.
Just right click on ISO and select Mount option.
Then in VLC I select to play Blue-Ray (with Disk Menu option selected – is not selected by default).
After that BD plays with all menus and controls available.
If everything is OK, I’ll burn ISO into BD disk.
Mind you the ISO is on SSD so the performance is OK.