VLC and Blu-ray disks

[Davidk]

This is a result of the thread re (not having) an introductory logo for burning AVCHD disks here
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59548

And I have several questions about bluray as a result. But first some transition information:
My class members all have cameras or camcorders using AVCHD or MP4 formats, and the last project required files in that format. And so would the project completion disk everyone gets at the end of project. They report having bluray burners on their PC's even tho they don't have them on the entertainment system. So one option for a movie distribution disk was to supply a bluray disk and recommend use of the VLC player software to play them on PC . . .

Experimentally, I created the project logo, menu (for the included clips of course etc) for Bluray and share/rendered it to an .iso file. That worked fine. I normally use VLC (version 2.2.1) to display the disk image and check for any obvious errors before committing to a burn, and from posts I have read others on the forum do something similar.

In this case, VLC would not open the .iso file. So with some trepidation, using one of my limited (count on fingers of 1 hand) supply of BD disks, I used X9 to burn a disk from the iso image. Completed Ok. Once again, VLC would not open the disk. But it would open and display individual .m2ts files in the \BDMV\STREAM folder, one by one manually. So not opening the disk looks more like a read disk format error than an inability to play the native files.

Next, I took that BD disk to my entertainment system and ran it on the Bluray player attached. And it displayed the menu and the clips without apparent error.

So now the questions:
1. Quite a few forum users run VLC. Has anyone had any difficulty with VLC opening and playing a bluray 1) a .iso file image and 2) the full burnt disk?
NB I've had a question on the VLAN forum about VLC not being able open a blu-ray .iso image file, but there's been no response yet.

2. If those users have no problems with VLC and bluray .iso images or the burnt disk, then
a. what VLC version is being run?
b. is there any specific configuration required to open a bluray disk or image?

3. As part of this activity I noticed that the rendered to disk data usage is considerably larger than the individual clip (rendered MP4) files - nearly 2x in the case of Bluray. Is there a common explanation for why the HD formats expand the usage size on disk like this?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Davidk

[asik1]

David, it would be better if you upload a ~200MB test iso you have problems with so we all try it and report.

[Davidk]

Ahh . . a minor item I overlooked.
The bluray .iso image created by VS X9 is 6.4Gb large. The BD disk that was burned from that image (played Ok on the bluray player) was in the same drive that burned it when VLC refused to recognise it.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

I have no good news….
I have had problems finding any software that will play a AVCHD or Bluray ISO or Folder.
Just to clarify --- I mean playing the files to include the menu structure.
I tended to create the Avchd/Bluray Folder option rather than the ISO.

Some software will play the video content but not the menu, that includes free and purchased software.

OK Ken Berry may use a media player that can do this, but I do not think it is available any more.??
I cannot remember the name but I am sure Ken will reply and say what he used?

Corel WinDVD originally did play Bluray Folders but that was the trial version, when they released the service packs it removed the capability of playing the Folders, and any new purchases do not play Bluray Folders.
I was in contact with Corel Support 16/03/2014, I doubt anything has changed since then.
You may find details on the WinDVD Forum.

I have not done a search for a while so there may be newer software that will do the trick,
I found this stating “Specially designed to be compatible with blu-ray files and folders”

https://www.vso-software.fr/products/vm ... player.php

I will be giving that a try?

Given a bit of time I will do some investigations and if I find owt will let you know

[asik1]

As you wont give us a test iso, I might suggest you should try this player

I use it as portable.
(why it looks underlined blue ?)

Post edited by lata

Set the script like this

Light Alloy (Link should look like this)

[lata]

Its as quick to create your own ISO or Folder.

using a short video will reduce the size and time to create.

Then try to play the file to include playing the menu structure.

[lata]

Hi Asik

Good try with the Light Alloy but the description says....

"supports multimedia keyboards and has full support for DVD/Blu-ray (except for BD menus) "

[asik1]

Hi Asik

Good try with the Light Alloy but the description says....

"supports multimedia keyboards and has full support for DVD/Blu-ray (except for BD menus) "

Sorry mate, as I never even hold a bluray disk in my hands I never bothered if it will play or not.
( I can't even find my X9 bluray installation file ...)

[lata]

Hi Asik

In the older days when I burnt a DVD I would first create an ISO file, I could play that using VCL Media Player to check quality, the player also plays the menu structure so its just like playing a disc.
Then burn the iso to disc knowing the quality will be the same.

When I started using AVCHD and finally Bluray I can create either ISO or Folder but there are few Media Players that will play the menu structure.
The players will play from the BDMV folder and we can navigate the titles choosing which to play, just like playing a video file, but does not play the disc menu and that’s the problem.
Burn a BD disc and that will play the menu but not from a BDMV folder.

I have the original trial of Corel WinDVD and that plays the menus but Corel changed all that as did other Media Player suppliers.
So if anyone has found a media player that supports / plays the menu then I would be interested, more so if its free.

[Ken Berry]

OK Ken Berry may use a media player that can do this, but I do not think it is available any more.??
I cannot remember the name but I am sure Ken will reply and say what he used?

It was DVDFab Media Player Pro. There is a free version: http://www.dvdfab.cn/media-player.htm Unfortunately, that version does not play BD menus. For that you have to buy the Pro version, and that costs US$65.

[Davidk]

Hi All,
With one exception, I have unravelled this perplexing problem. I mentioned in a prior post a suspicion of configurational issues: it was that, plus a helping of industrial usage, user habit and as an afterword, a serving of conflicting usage for preference setup.

Firstly, playing a Bluray disk.
item 1 - industrial usage - every 5inch optical disk is manufactured with a marker which describes what sort of disk it is. That's intended to allow the player/software to identify the disk type and configure automatically for it. And that's how it is seen by users - start the software, plug in the disk and the program tells you what sort it is and the capacity available; change the disk and the software updates type and capacity automatically. As an example, the Burnaware Free software to burn a range of disks (CD,DVD,BD etc) disks with various sorts of data. Some - like VS - make it stand-out clear what sort of media options are available and require manual selection of the type for use (see the share/disc media options).

item 2 - Play DVD by VLC.
My long habit of using VLC has been to insert the (DVD) disk, start the software and open disk. The open media panel that opens shows DVD selected, go straight to play: and it works. Used so often it became a habit of going straight to play.

item 3 - Play BD by VLC
So when I opened a bluray disk (BD) using VLC I followed habit and was confounded by it not working. Hence these posts. But it turns out that VLC does NOT auto detect the disk type - it is software defaulted to DVD. And the open media panel shows that, even when a BD disk is in the drive.

To get VLC to open a BD disk, the disk type in the open media panel must be manually selected. And that option has no stand out features - it's just another radio button in small print. See

Selecting the Bluray button and then Play, it opens and plays the disk, altho it's not as smooth (jerky between sections eg menu parts) as a straight BD video player is. But at least it plays. So, mea culpa - habit died at least for VLC.

item 3 - confusing configuration practice by VLC
But the played BD disk did not play the logo or menu. So (having set these options up for a standard DVD) I went over the VLC preferences for Bluray to confirm the relevant items I use for DVD - and found contradictory methods. To play DVD logo/menu items, preferences needed to be set up - and were - with check boxes unticked, as follows

but to play the same items on BD, preferences needed to be changed so that the same items were ticked, as follows

Confusing to say the least. But having experimented and found the right ones for each disk type, those now work.
Which just leaves the play iso image issue.

Secondly, playing a disk image (a .iso file) of a bluray disk.
This is the exception I mentioned.
Wikipedia describes what an ISO standard disk image is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_image
and is broadly, a binary sector-by-sector image of the disk within a single binary file. The ISO standard includes bluray in that definition.
But while VLC plays iso images of DVD disks fine, it simply will NOT play an .iso image of a bluray disk.

Frustration at several levels here - not really willing to risk a burn error on expensive and hard-to-get BD disks without a check (play .iso file) on the simple things in a rendered file, but VLC won't allow that. So I'll complain again to VideolAN, and check the alternatives that have been outlined in the posts.

Thanks to all,

Davidk

[Ken Berry]

I was pretty sure I had played BD ISOs successfully in the past on VLC. Will need to check that again. But it will certainly play Blu-Ray folders which is what I tend to use for both BD and DVDs in any case instead of ISOs. And they are easy to burn to an actual disc as well.

[Davidk]

From my perspective, playing the image file is a quality check on the disk image. A tool which does that is preferred and one which doesn't isn't useful at all. Given the description of an iso disk image (a binary file containing a sector-by-sector image of the actual disk), how a player can play the image of one disk (DVD) and not play the image of another (BD) seems to be illogical.

Maybe the file size of the iso image is an unanticipated problem - DVD's have a max capacity, and ergo file size, of 4.7gb, whereas BD disks can be at least 25gb. The image file which broke VLC 2.2.1 was only 6.5gb. But in the age of large HD files on disk, this failure seriously limits the usefulness of the VLC program. Players that only play the clips and not the whole thing (logos,menus etc) really are not a tool needed to do a quality check on a disk image.

I logged some feedback with VideoLAN on this but have no great hopes for any improvement.

Davidk

[Ken Berry]

From my perspective, playing the image file is a quality check on the disk image.

I'm not sure you understood my point, or else I did not make my point clearly enough. Playing the DVD or BD Folder, made instead of an ISO, achieves exactly the same purpose -- checking the quality of what will become an actual disc. And programs like Nero, Ashampoo Burning Studio, Roxio and ImgBurn will burn a DVD or BD Folder as easily as they will burn an ISO once you are satisfied with the quality. A BD Folder is to all intents and purposes identical to a BD ISO except for its .iso format. It is totally and exactly the same as a final BD will be; just like an ISO.

And don't forget, it was only with X9, and perhaps X8, that you even got the option to create a BD ISO. Before that, it was a BD Folder only...

[lata]

Effectively the ISO is a zipped BDMV folder and as such can be unzipped to reveal the folder and all contents. It’s the same beast in a different wrapper.

Right click an iso and choose “extract or unzip to here”