PSP color management

[Alex Brazeau]

Hi all, thanks to each of you for your comments in this active discussion so far. I was not personally aware of this color management issue, so I've flagged it directly with our development team so they can take a deeper look into what's happening here. All the detailed comments and screenshots you guys have provided should undoubtedly be helpful to the team as they work to get to the bottom of this. Has anyone been in touch with support or opened a case related to this issue so I can pass those details on as well? Would be great if we could have all your system details logged and associated with this issue, too.

The photo team does visit these forums regularly to keep an eye on many of the latest threads. I'm glad you've raised this as a concern and I'm working with our team to ensure we hold a more visible presence here on the forums. I can understand where you're coming from and I, along with other members of the photo team, will certainly make a more concerted effort to hold a more visible presence here on the forum to engage in more frequent conversations with you. I assure you all the feedback posted from the community--your opinions and your suggestions--are extremely valuable to everyone on our team.

Again, I appreciate everyone's comments and thank you for providing such detailed info. If there are any other details related to this that I can pass along to the dev team, please feel free to add them below or send me a PM.

Thanks,
Alex

[JoeB]

Thanks for your comments, Alex. I don't imagine this is something that will receive a quick fix because it's likely not a simple issue. But hopefully a part of the dev team can make it a priority issue to look into. On average (ever since I started using PSP in the Jasc days) the best anyone could do with color management was to simply disable it. While that works for the needs of many, for those with more professional needs a good color management system is kind of vital, which is one reason many of those people have to work with other software rather than PSP.

By the way, I'm sure most of us understand that it is not the intention - nor should it be - of Corel personnel who will monitor these forums to provide help of the "How do I do....whatever" sort. That's the purview of us users, given this is a user group. But when it comes to technical issues that need resolving, we hope that there will be more interaction with Corel than has been the case for many years.

Thanks again for chiming in!

[brucet]

Thanks for the post Alex. The fact that you guys do read what is being commented on is reassuring. Good for you. I also don't expect Corel to come in with a fix for every post. That's the purpose of the 'community'. But when an issue such as Color Management or the SP1 issue with x8, technical gremlins, arises then it's nice to know that Corel is aware that there is/maybe a 'problem'. Simple acknowledgement is all I ask. A fix would also be nice

Again thanks for addressing the matter.

regards

[GMack]

Thanks Alex.

I haven't filed a support ticket since I was past the 30-day period, and then they want $$$ to complain about a bug. (If that's how it works? Not the easiest to find warrantied support there either.).

I got into piezo B&W printing with one printer and discovered I had no shadow detail in PSP X8. I went back to PS CS6 and all these calibration tools by X-rite (Name it. I got it.). Jon Cone (InkjetMall & Piezography ink supplier) had me look at that chart of his in the above link and to my surprise I could only see down to maybe #17 or so. That gave way to the Eizo CG-248 monitor where I could see down to #1 in PS (The Eizo rep. recommended PS for viewing for shadow detail in that test image as well.) during a demo show where Eizo had one of these new 4K monitors against the Apple Retinas/Thunderbolts and their older CG-247 series. I bought the sale's guy demo CG-248 since I knew it could show #1 when plugged into their Apple Mac Pro "Trashcan."

At home, something went askew with Windows 10 and that test chart only went to #11 in CS6, and much worse in PSP X8. (?!!??) Turned out the Nvida 980 card has to be tweaked a bit in a couple of places for the HDMI output from Nvidia's default factory settings. Then I got PS CS6 to show #1 after tweaking the Nvidia cards output, but PSP X8 does not go that low, maybe #11 at best when side-by-side against PS CS6 that now shows #1. Sort of obvious when you see the two software's blacks stacked on the same screen.

Eizo's Color Navigator 6 software also gets upset when PSP X8 launches and it throws up a "Gamma has changed" warning when the X8 logo launches - and that got my attention! Didn't find a gamma setting in PSP X8 other than maybe trying the X8 "Color Monitor Calibration" tool (Never used it since I have cal. gear for that.). I could see the whites on the screen dim a bit too and turn a little orangish for some reason when PSP X8 launched too after that warning. Likely why the PSP X8 black is a bit of a dark gray and not a real true black as in PS CS6 too. Might be why PSP X8 doesn't present a true black for whatever reason that keeps a user from seeing the #1 too if the best it can show on screen is a dark gray/black.

Anyhoo, have fun sorting it out!

Mack

[LeviFiction]

Just for reference if you suspect a bug you can fill out a bug report by going to this form - http://corel.force.com/support/reportabug

No money required.

[brucet]

For what it's worth since I reset everything to sRGB I have had no changes/issues. Now the question is - why does moving away from sRGB induce color issues with PSP?

And is sRGB 'good enough' for most users? If so, and if Corel is after that market, then all well and good. But if Color Management is to be a part of PSP then it had better work.
I have now switched to Photoline as my primary editor. I have PSPx7 set up as an external editor from within Photoline. Best of both world!!! (As a matter of interest, within Photoline you can change Color Management and instantly see the results. Maybe Corel should have a hard look at what Photoline is doing). PSP and sRGB are 'ok' for me. Simply because I rely on other software to adjust colors. Photoline for editing and QImage for printing. It's just a bigger tool box. More tools.

regards

[GMack]

Bruce, since you are set back in sRGB, how well can you see into the shadows with that numbered target I linked above? Still at #11 or did it drop down a bit more?

I got some Nvidia update I applied in the last couple of days and I was back up to #17 on the notebook and Eizo both. Something went askew!

Forgot I also needed to get into the Nvidia Control panel and set the HDMI output from RGB (Nvidia's default) back to YCbCr444. Then I could see the #1 again on the external Eizo in CS6, but still PSP X8 does not give me a good black even though that target is sRGB, maybe best I can see is #4 since I re-calibrated the Eizo last night too. Still a bit different for whatever reason. You can only change that RGB to YCbCr444 with an external monitor being fed out of the HDMI port, fwiw. Without doing that, maybe #11-17 is the best with only RGB active and not YCbCr444.

Why Corel does not produce a good black and/or suffers loss of shadow detail compared to CS6 is beyond me when placed side-by-side on the same monitor. If you're printing for shadow detail, you won't see it in PSP X8.

---

Also, my Color Management screen has again changed by itself. Now it reads
Image, graphic, or text generated by: i1 Display Pro D65.icm

Everything below that is unchecked or grayed out. Used to say "Match" in two right boxes, but now both are light gray since Enable Color Management has switched itself off (Unchecked). Why that window seems to have a mind of its own is another matter. Weird, but I suspect that if the printers are off or switched on, it might be changing then? Qimage Ultimate affecting it since that's what I use as the 6 printers software? Dunno.

Added too, the drop-down boxes for the various printers are too small and I can't read all of the text for the printer's name and associated paper profiles that disappear on the right of the drop-downs either (<- Bug).


Mack

[brucet]

GMack with sRGB I'm seeing a 5 and a hint of 4.

My issue has never really been the colour itself, although I know it's not right, but the constant changing that PSP does. (I always corrected final colour in QImage). However it's annoying to work on a project only to have PSP change the colours. Now I've swapped to Photoline. Use Photolines color management. Then for my go to tools in PSP I switch to PSP, use those tools and switch back to Photoline. With SRGB in PSP I get no color change swapping from Photoline to PSP and back. And that's what I want. Consistency.

I've tested the above on all 3 of my computers. With no color management and sRGB in PSP nothing changes. Great.

regards

[GMack]

Interesting stuff.

I'm wondering if the gamma change the Color Navigator 6 software reports and throws up a warning box when I launch PSP X8 has something to due with the slope of the gamma curve or if it's straight line? To me, the Photoshop appears linear in the numbers from its black, but the PSP X8 doesn't seem to follow the same curve (Or straight linear line?) but may have some "toe" built into the curve's black where it stays in the black (or gray in X8 since it appears a bit gray/black and not the CS6 black) and then begins to build in the lighter number's tones?

Don't know why it changes color on starting from whatever the calibrated and assigned profile was either. I would think it would stay in whatever device and software was used and set as default to calibrate the monitor, but it doesn't. Wants to take over the entire system and remain there until re-booted which is maddening! CS6 can change On-the-Fly once within and saving a image, but X8 does so initially by itself on starting with no image.

I also tried the PSP X8 Monitor Calibration Tool and it wasn't much different visibly in the calibration made with the X-rite i1 Display Pro unit. I see the X8 tool's profile it made added in the Color Management window, but I stayed with the default I made with the X-rite i1 Display Pro D65.icm. Yet it still changes stuff on its own when launched? It should stay put on the system's default unless called upon to change the color profile later as with Photoshop, Color Navigator, and other editor's and color calibrators; and not initially with no image called in where it might read that image's embedded profile.


Add:
I just rebooted Windows 10. Checked its color profile in Windows 10 and Color Management being is set to "i1 Display Pro D65.icm (default")." All good so far.

But, when I launched PSP X8, the screen changed color! When I went into PSP X8's Color Management window, it shows "i1 Display Pro D65.icm" there, but it isn't. It has changed someplace when launched, but the X8 Color Management window still shows the default "i1 Display Pro D65.icm" which it isn't.

Very weird stuff going on with X8.


Mack

[jdXp]

I first noted the yellow shade over white and reading through this thread also discovered the blue issue.

After putting my thinking cap on and taking my time I think I found a rather simple solution:

File > Color Management > Color Management change Monitor Profile to sRGB Color Space Profile.icm

NB: instead of a Monitor name if PSP does not recognize the manufacturer it may say "none" which also seems to "cure" the jaundiced color issue.

[ehume]

Something to note. I have PSPx7 installed on 3 computers. (Yes sorry Corel but 3. An old workhorse laptop that is my internet computer. A new laptop that is used for all editing. And one old desktop devoted just to printing). On all 3 computers I have PSPx7 with identical settings. Same work space some color management etc. Everything. Now on my editing laptop as PSPx7 starts my computer desktop changes colour. ie PSP is changing my systems color settings as it starts up. I can't reverse this change without turning off the computer and doing a reboot. This doesn't happen with either of my older computers. Every other program is then changed because PSP has changed my laptops color management.
If I don't start up PSP on my new laptop I can swap at will between computers and programs without any color issues. It's only when PSP starts that I get the miss match of colours. EVEN WITH Color Management TURNED OFF.

So what is PSP doing that is changing the color management on my new laptop?

regards

Once upon a time my widows' backgrounds all turned Yellow when I turned of PSP 2018. Changing colorspace produced a bizarre green world on my screen. This was just like your experience.

Like your experience, one day it stopped converting my backgrounds to yellow. I all this time I had not touched my installation, except for at the start, when I discovered that uninstalling and reinstalling PSP 2018 (= x 10) made no difference. I all this time Windows had had numerous updates.

After working with Corel employees to no avail, we decided that it was something to do with how PSP interacted with Windows on my machine. They could not reproduce the problem.

I only tell you this to say you are not alone.