Opening multi-page pdf

[JoeB]

Nein! Ve haff vays.... as long as you are still with shaw.ca...

Yep.

[JoeB]

Thanks Ken for sending me the 2 page form mentioned in your previous post to experiment with. I have done so and I'll start with my conclusion, then I'll set out what I did.

MY CONCLUSION: It's that PSP has optimized its PDF reading ability to match the Adobe Acrobat standards. And while Adobe Acrobat can quite easily open multi-page PDF documents created by or edited in other PDF programs, PSP has issues with properly opening multi-page documents that, at the very least, have been EDITED in at least some other programs (I don't know the limits on this if there are any). I don't know if PSP has an issue with opening multi-page documents originally created in SOME other programs but that have not been subsequently edited in programs other than Adobe Acrobat.

BUT (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT), the kicker is that PSP's inability MIGHT have something to do with fonts chosen to fill in/edit forms (see my points numbers 6 and 7 below)

Here's what I did with the 2 page form that Ken sent me (he sent both the unedited document and a copy of the same document which he had edited by filling in a few boxes of the form).

1) I confirmed that PSP X7 and X8 will open Ken's original, non-edited document with both pages.

2) Neither X8 or X7 will open both pages of Ken's edited document, just the first page (which, by the way, does not contain any editing because it is the second page of the form that has spaces to fill in information).

3) Next, I opened Ken's unedited 2-page document in Acrobat DC and filled in the same boxes that he had filled in (with my own info) and saved it. Both X7 and X8 opened my edited document with both pages.

4) Next, I opened Ken's edited 2 page document in Acrobat DC and, without editing, just saved it. X7 and X8 would only open the first page, not the second, edited page.

5) Next, I again opened Ken's edited 2 page document in Acrobat DC and this time edited it by adding a bit more info to it while keeping his original info. Again, neither X7 or X8 would open anything except the first page.

6) And second last, I opened Ken's edited 2 page document in Acrobat DC and deleted all of the info he had put into the form's boxes and saved it. Both pages opened in X7 and X8.

7) Finally, I opened the form saved as in Point 6 in Acrobat DC and filled in some of the boxes and saved it. Again, both pages opened in both X7 and X8.

SO, while it may be that editing with other PDF programs than Acrobat break PSP's ability to read them as multi-page, it might also simply be the fonts chosen in those other programs or some other settings that would make them more compatible with Acrobat's standards and PSP's ability to read them.

AND, whether some of the above would apply in any way if the first page of the document is also edited - thereby preventing that first page from opening which it at least seems to do for people) is something I don't know and will have to leave to others to experiment with using a non-Acrobat PDF editor. It doesn't cause issues for me because when I edit either page with Acrobat they all open multi-page with PSP.

And I should add that, despite previous posts saying that opening the edited documents in PSP (when only page 1 opened) caused further issues in opening multi-page documents period, I didn't experience any of that. I can still open pdf's that won't open multipage because of editing issues and then open the unedited (or any other) multi-page document with no problem in both X7 and X8.

That's my take, but all comments are appreciated!

[hartpaul]

Thank you for that very logical step by step explanation Joe. Beautiful to see the steps you applied.

[Ken Berry]

Thanks for all that work and interesting results. It does seem that using a non-Acrobat program is if not the only reason, then at least a major factor in causing the problem.

I note that you did not experience what happened with my earlier form, namely where the edited form initially opened in X8 but with the edits missing.

I'm also not sure about your comments on fonts. Nitro initially offered me Arial but I changed it to another chosen from the same list that appears in my Windows fonts folder and which are used by other programs including PSP.

[MarkZ]

This discussion has been centered on PDF forms and opening them whether the form has been filled in or not.

I tried (once again - this had come up months ago) opening multi-page PDF docs from a variety of sources. Scanned docs seem to open correctly, all the pages. This makes sense since they are virtually a form of picture.

I have a number of docs that I've created. I have combined pages from a variety of sources such as scanned pages, MS Excel, Word and PowerPoint using Corel's PDF Fusion to bring them into one multi-page PDF document. The various versions of MS products can create the PDF docs directly. The results of trying to open these documents using PSP is hit and miss. For example, for a nine page doc which includes three scanned pages, three pages may open from various sources. In other documents only the first page may open. Opening a manual from a vendor may open only one page.

I suspect a multi-page PDF containing only pictures will open all the pictures (perhaps up to some limit) - I'm not going to create this to try. But the bottom line seems to be that opening other documents is erratic at best.

[JoeB]

I note that you did not experience what happened with my earlier form, namely where the edited form initially opened in X8 but with the edits missing.

You are correct, I did not experience that issue either.

I'm also not sure about your comments on fonts. Nitro initially offered me Arial but I changed it to another chosen from the same list that appears in my Windows fonts folder and which are used by other programs including PSP.

I agree that it is unlikely that it is simply an issue with the chosen font. It is more likely that simply editing by adding text, whatever the font, with some non-Acrobat programs changes some of the coding that identifies the edited page as connected to the previous page, breaking the connection. Perhaps when I deleted your text the identifying code again changes to its original, because the page then has all of the attributes of the original restored.

In any event, the workaround that seems best at the moment is to always use one of the Acrobat versions for editing PDF's that you might want to open in PSP.

That said, I still have to experiment with the 52 page form I opened in PSP that was created by Scrivener, save it with Scrivener, and see if that works properly in PSP. If it does it may simply be that Scrivener's PDF export sticks closely to Adobe's standards. I don't know that editing with Spandex's tutorial will be of any help because I don't have any way of knowing what program was used to originally create that document.

[JoeB]

This discussion has been centered on PDF forms and opening them whether the form has been filled in or not.

I tried (once again - this had come up months ago) opening multi-page PDF docs from a variety of sources. Scanned docs seem to open correctly, all the pages. This makes sense since they are virtually a form of picture.

I have a number of docs that I've created. I have combined pages from a variety of sources such as scanned pages, MS Excel, Word and PowerPoint using Corel's PDF Fusion to bring them into one multi-page PDF document. The various versions of MS products can create the PDF docs directly. The results of trying to open these documents using PSP is hit and miss. For example, for a nine page doc which includes three scanned pages, three pages may open from various sources. In other documents only the first page may open. Opening a manual from a vendor may open only one page.

I suspect a multi-page PDF containing only pictures will open all the pictures (perhaps up to some limit) - I'm not going to create this to try. But the bottom line seems to be that opening other documents is erratic at best.

Your results don't surprise me if, as I only suspect, PSP's ability to properly open PDF multi-page documents relies quite strictly on Adobe PDF coding standards that might not be reflected by all other programs when they compile or export a PDF. Just my opinion based on the limited testing I have done so far.

[JoeB]

Thank you for that very logical step by step explanation Joe. Beautiful to see the steps you applied.

Thanks @hartpaul. The devil, as they say, is in the details. And there are likely yet some details I haven't tested for that others might wish to take a whack at.

[MarkZ]

I couldn't resist one more check. I selected six small jpgs and created one PDF document with them using Fusion. All six opened in PSP.

Did the same with Word 2010 - only the first image opened. Both files worked correctly with Adobe Reader.

I imagine Microsoft products, Word, Powerpoint and others, may be frequently used to create PDFs with embeded images and it appears likely none of these can be opened in PSP.

Bottom line, PSP is not compatible with PDF documents that are recognized by Adobe and this is a bug that should be fixed if Corel claims that PSP handles PDF docs.

[JoeB]

Bottom line, PSP is not compatible with PDF documents that are recognized by Adobe...

I think it is more accurate to say that PSP is not compatible with EVERY document that is recognized by Adobe. It will recognize at least some documents that are recognized by Adobe that are created in at least some other programs. I just created a 6 page document in the writing application Scrivener and compiled it as a PDF document (Scrivener will compile in a large variety of formats, from ebooks to Word, HTML, postscript, PDF or plain text)). PSP opened all 6 pages.

I also used another writing program (WriteItNow 5) and exported a 29 page document to PDF format. PSP also opened all 29 pages. So I can only presume at this point part of the issue, at least, might have to do with how well programs export to PDF and adhere to Adobe PDF standards when they compile the documents. Adobe readers might be more lenient in reading docs not quite up to standard. I can recall that various web browsers had various amounts of leniency when trying to open web pages that weren't written strictly to HTML standards at a particular time.

I'll try with Word and embedded images later.

[JoeB]

I imagine Microsoft products, Word, Powerpoint and others, may be frequently used to create PDFs with embeded images and it appears likely none of these can be opened in PSP.

As promised in my last post, I now found time to try creating a PDF with Microsoft Word 2013. My document was 9 pages with images inserted in 3 different pages.

There are 3 ways create PDF from Word 2013:

1) Export>Create Adobe PDF. I didn't use this option because what it appears to do (given the prompts I received) is require that the file be first saved and then it is sent to my Adobe Acrobat program for creation as PDF, and we already know that multi-page PDF's created in Acrobat open in PSP.

2) Export>Create PDF/XPS Document. This option provides a note saying that it preserves layout, formatting, fonts and images but that content can't be easily changed.

3) Save As..., and select PDF as the format from the Save As... dropdown.

I created PDF's with options 2 and 3, with slightly different file names.

In both cases PSP opened all nine pages with the images and formatting intact.

So I cannot explain why @MarkZ is having issues opening multi-page PDF documents created in Word 2010 unless that version of Word isn't as proficient as Word 2013 in creating PDF documents.

[hartpaul]

I just tested a pdf made using PDFCreator from Sourceforge and it opened 3 pages in PSP X7.

PDFCreator is a context choice on the Print Menu and I use it at times to save a website / news page as a PDF.
So you can add that as another PDF program that can open PDFs. However I did not have a pdf that had fields that had been filled in. PDF creator seems to be a simple pdf creation program.

[JoeB]

I just tested a pdf made using PDFCreator from Sourceforge and it opened 3 pages in PSP X7.

PDFCreator is a context choice on the Print Menu and I use it at times to save a website / news page as a PDF.
So you can add that as another PDF program that can open PDFs. However I did not have a pdf that had fields that had been filled in. PDF creator seems to be a simple pdf creation program.

First, thanks for your input!

Well, if it was only edited PDF docs with forms that had the issue (like the one's I originally tested from Ken) then that would be one thing. But with @MarkZ and perhaps others having issues with other types of created PDF docs, and those created in Word by Mark (where I didn't have issues with PSP opening them), it would seem that it's not just form PDF docs having the issue. And it would also seem that not everyone has the same issues opening multi-page PDF docs created with programs other than Acrobat that some other people have.

So my other tentative conclusion is that it's not just a PSP issue. It is at least partly an issue with how other programs implement PDF creation, conversion/compiling, and perhaps some system specific issues. As the title of a movie says, it's complicated.

[Simone Corel UK]

Just to inform you, it's not a bug but a limitation of the 64bit version. Please open multi-pages PDFs in the 32bit version of PSP.

[JoeB]

Just to inform you, it's not a bug but a limitation of the 64bit version. Please open multi-pages PDFs in the 32bit version of PSP.

Thanks! That explains it. I use the 32-bit versions so as to be able to use all my legacy and 32-bit plugins. \