Audio/Video sync that lags by various amounts

[1010101]

I plan on using VideoStudio to put video files on blu-ray but when I load the video files the audio/video is not synchronized. I searched the web and this forum and the posts I found were related to audio/video synchronization problems that are different from the one I found. Although it seems audio/video synchronization problems are common, it seems that different people have different problems with audio/video. Most of the problems I found in these threads were how to fix it when the audio and video are off by the same amount of time during the entire video. When I load videos in VideoStudio, audio and video are off by different amounts in different parts of the video. The difference also fluctuates, so it does not work to simply change the speed the audio runs. I've tried split audio then speed/time lapse on the audio.

This FAQ thread http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?p=55788#55788 linked to three audio/video sync threads: the first one is how to edit video files without losing quality instead of fixing sync issues. The second suggests working with AVI files only or using conversion software if that is not possible. The El Gato program that I am using only creates MP4 files and the conversion software in that thread is expensive. I have tried to use the free program Avidemux to convert MP4 to AVI and I describe that below. The third is about a bug that causes audio/video sync problems for videos that have been edited in VideoStudio and burned to a DVD. This is not the problem I have (at least I haven't had this problem yet).

The files I want to transfer are in MP4 format. This thread http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?t=12118 says to work with AVI files so I converted an MP4 to AVI using Avidemux. When I loaded the MP4 file, the video was shorter than it should have been (5hr 29min instead of 5hr 52min) with the audio the correct length. The audio/video was off by as much as 20 minutes in some parts of the video. The AVI file had the video the correct length but the audio was 14 seconds too short. The audio/video were off by at most 17 seconds. With both files, the audio and video seemed to be synchronized at the beginning, but the futher into the video it gets, the bigger the difference. However, the ratio of the difference between audio/video and length of time since the beginning of the video is not constant.

I have loaded the video files in various programs like Windows Movie Maker, MPC-HC, Avidemux, VLC media player, and Windows Media Player. The audio/video was off for the MP4 in MPC-HC and was synchronized in Windows Movie Maker, Windows Media Player, and VLC media player. The AVI was off in Windows Media Player, MPC-HC, and VLC. In Windows Media Player it thinks the AVI is 2200 hours and displays a black screen at any point after 6 hours. MPC-HC thinks the video is 174 hours and displays the last frame after 6 hours.

I don't remember everything I've tried but I've had these various programs convert the MP4 to different fromats, I've split the audio and video in VideoStudio and tried things like split time lapse, and I've tried having another program save the audio in a separate file and then load it into VideoStudio and mute the video file. The solution that seemed to come closest is having Avidemux convert to an AVI file, because that time the audio and video was only off by up to 17 seconds. Avidemux has a lot of different settings and I wonder if different settings would produce a file that would have synchronized audio and video in VideoStudio. I think I used a video format of H264 (ff/nvidia), audio format of AAC (lav), and an output format of AVI Muxer, and configured the muxing format to AVI.

The video formats for Avidemux are: (FF)HuffYUV, DV (ffmpeg), FLV1(flash), H264 (ff/nvidia), HEVC (x265), Mjpeg encoder, Mpeg2 (ff), Mpeg4 ASP (ff), Mpeg4 ASP (xvid4), Mpeg4 ASP (x264), PNG encoder, YV12 encoder, null. The audio formats are: AAC (Faac), AAC (lav), AC3 (Aften), AC3 (lav), MP2 (twolame), MP2 (lav), MP3 (lame), PCM, Vorbis. The output formats are AVI Muxer, Dummy Muxer, FLV Muxer, MP4 Muxer, MP4v2 Muxer, Mkv Muxer, Mpeg TS Muxer (ff), Mpeg-PS Muxer (ff), Video Only. There are also configure buttons which vary depending on which option was selected. When H264 (ff/nvidia) is selected as a video output, the options are quality preset, bitrate, and max bitrate. With the audio AAC options, the options are simply bitrate, with 10 numeric options ranging from 56 to 384. The configuration options for the output format when it is set to AVI Muxer are to set the Muxing format to AUTO, Avi, and OPENDML.

The MP4 files came from a VCR attached to the computer through a USB port using the El Gato video capture device (version 1.15.2 (119)). I am using Avidemux 2.6.10. I am using Corel VideoStudio Ultimate X8 18.5.0.25 64-bit. I just checked for updates in VideoStudio through the help menu and it said there are no new updates. The video formats do not seem to be consistent with either PAL or NTSC (the frame rate is 27.873 instead of 25 or 29.97) but since I am in the United States I assume NTSC would be more relavent.

I am using Windows 8.1 64-bit; 2TB hard drive; 16GB memory; Gigabyte 2011 4x16 XFRX/SLI 4D4 M32 GL R ATX motherboard; Intel Core i7-5820K 3.30GHz 6-Core processor; LG Blu-ray Writer 16x SATA Black drive; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 4GB DDR5 graphics card. I don't know what my sound card is but in the Device Manager of the control panel it lists NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible) (WDM) and Realtek High Definition Audio.

When I clicked on the properties of the original MP4 file in VideoStudio I got the following:
File format: MPEG-4 File
File size: 6,009,453 KB (5.73 GB)
Duration: 19788.881 seconds
Video type: H.264 High Profile Video
Total frames: 588,739
Attributes: 24 bits, 640 x 480
Frame rate: 29.751 frames/sec
Data rate: 474 Kpbs
Audio Type: MPEG AAC Audio
Total samples: 1,013,865,417 samples
Attributes: 48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Bit rate: 216 Kbps

When I clicked on the properties of the AVI file in VideoStudio I got the following (this is the AVI file created by Avidemux):
File format: Microsoft AVI files -- Open DML
File size: 11,644,183 KB
Frame rate: 27.873 frames/sec
Duration: 21122.269 seconds
Data rate: 225.59 kbps
Video compression: Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder
Attributes: 24 bits, 640 x 480
Total frames: 588,741
Audio compressoin: AAC Audio
Attributes: 48.000 kHz, 0 bits, Stereo
Total samples: 4294967295 samples

I got the following from the properties of the original MP4 in the MPC-HC:
General
Format : MPEG-4
Codec ID : M4V
File size : 5.73 GiB
Duration : 5h 52mn
Overall bit rate : 2 331 Kbps
Recorded date : 2015-11-01
Encoded date : UTC 2015-11-01 10:10:59
Tagged date : UTC 2015-11-01 10:10:59
Cover : Yes

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 5h 52mn
Bit rate : 2 101 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 27.873 fps
Original frame rate : 29.970 fps
Minimum frame rate : 2.312 fps
Maximum frame rate : 29 970.000 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.245
Stream size : 5.17 GiB (90%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-11-01 10:10:59
Tagged date : UTC 2015-11-01 10:10:59
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics : BT.601
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 5h 52mn
Source duration : 5h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 216 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 557 MiB (9%)
Source stream size : 557 MiB (9%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-11-01 10:10:59
Tagged date : UTC 2015-11-01 10:10:59
mdhd_Duration : 21122196

I got the following from the AVI file in MPC-HC:
General
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 11.1 GiB
Duration : 5h 52mn
Overall bit rate : 4 516 Kbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : H264
Duration : 5h 52mn
Bit rate : 4 284 Kbps
Width : 640 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 27.873 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.500
Stream size : 10.5 GiB (95%)
Writing library : x264 core 146 r2538 121396c
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=2 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=30 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=14.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : FF
Duration : 5h 51mn
Source duration : 10h 8mn
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 557 MiB (5%)
Alignment : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration : 21 ms (0.60 video frame)

[lata]

Hi

You say
“The MP4 files came from a VCR attached to the computer through a USB port using the El Gato video capture device (version 1.15.2 (119))”

Well you seem to be having your fair share of problems but I would be asking why the capture device is creating an out of sync video.
When you view their web site the Elgato does read as a high quality capture device.

You are talking about out of sync, half a second is bad, but you are referring to 17 seconds, that’s ridiculous.
No conversion software is gonna correct that, at least I would not think so.

You have to fix the capture device, are you connecting using HDMI?

Have you talked to Elgato support for their opinion on 17 seconds OOS.

[1010101]

You are talking about out of sync, half a second is bad, but you are referring to 17 seconds, that’s ridiculous.
No conversion software is gonna correct that, at least I would not think so.

Actually, the MP4 file that El Gato creates is synchronized in Windows Media Player but is off by as much as 20 minutes in VideoStudio. When I had Avidemux convert the MP4 to an AVI and loaded it in VideoStudio, it was only off by at most 17 seconds. I was wondering if software could convert to make it synchronized because the fact that it is synchronized in Windows Media Player means that the file has the information necessary for a video player to play the video and audio in sync, but perhaps some of the data is in a format that VideoStudio does not understand. Avidemux made the audio/video problem a lot better (maximum of 20 minutes down to maximum 17 seconds)

You have to fix the capture device, are you connecting using HDMI?

The El Gato capture device connects to the VCR using an RCA connector and to the computer through a USB port.

Have you talked to Elgato support for their opinion on 17 seconds OOS.

No, I have not contacted El Gato support. I thought that since the audio/video is in sync in some players (like Windows Media Player) that the problem was not with El Gato. Now that you mention it I could e-mail them.

[1010101]

I got a reply from El Gato. They said, "Generally, if the video is playing fine in one or more programs, the issue will not be the source (Elgato Video Capture HD or the MP4 file), but the program that is trying to play it (Corel VideoStudio)." However, I did try a different setting in El Gato (Preserve source format) and now it seems the audio and video are synchronized (at least the part I watched so far), but the last few minutes of the video are cut off in every program I played it in, which means it is probably a problem with El Gato. I have to go to bed now so can't look at this fully right now, but I wanted to mention that I might have found a solution.

[asik1]

What settings you have for your capture device? can you capture to WMV?
Why you use Variable frame rate? VS doesn't like that.
Don't use VBR also , use CBR where possible.
Is it a USB device?

[lata]

Hi

When having sync’ issues some other USB capture devices recommend connecting the audio direct to the pc.
Have you tried connecting the audio from VCR direct to your PC Line – In
And only connect the Video through Elgato

At least you seem to be moving in the right direction.

[1010101]

What settings you have for your capture device? can you capture to WMV?
Why you use Variable frame rate? VS doesn't like that.
Don't use VBR also , use CBR where possible.
Is it a USB device?

The El Gato device does not have a lot of options for settings. The only general settings seem to be "high resolution" and "preserve source format". The other settings are things like brightness, contrast, etc. As far as I can tell, I can only capture to MP4. I don't know how to affect whether or not the file El Gato creates as a variable frame rate. I checked the properties for a newer MP4 file (one created when El Gato had the "preserve source format" option checked) in MPC-HC and it still said there was a variable frame rate, but it also said the frame rate was 29.97 (consistent with NTSC) instead of 27.873. The El Gato device connects to the computer with a USB port.

[lata]

Hi

Is this your device
https://www.elgato.com/en/video/video-capture
The web page describes capture as high quality, not high resolution, It does seem to capture to Mpeg4, but at 640 x 480 is not High Definition.

Connections from VCR use RCA or S-Video
Have you tried both options

As mentioned earlier I would also try connecting the audio direct to your pc bypassing the device

Your captured video files should be in sync, you should not need to convert then just to rectify audio sync issues.

Other Capture devices
Do you own a DV Camcorder that supports Passthrough aka Throughput
If so you can use that as a Analogue / Digital converter
Connecting the VCR to camera "AV In", then connect the camera Dv-out terminal to pc.

[Ken Berry]

I had been wondering the same thing, Trevor, and had also gone to the El Gato site and saw that device. However, I suspect it is not that one. The problem is that none of the devices on that website have the version 1.15.2 (119) mentioned by 1010101... and there is no Search function that I can find. Using Google to search for "El Gato version 1.15.2 (119)" produces no useful result. I am wondering indeed if that is the version of the driver or even the software which came with the device...?

But from what he says, I suspect it is one of the gaming devices on that website which appear to have only HDMI and USB ports, not the array of RCA cables on the one you show.

[1010101]

Hi

Is this your device
https://www.elgato.com/en/video/video-capture

Yes, that is the device.

I had been wondering the same thing, Trevor, and had also gone to the El Gato site and saw that device. However, I suspect it is not that one. The problem is that none of the devices on that website have the version 1.15.2 (119) mentioned by 1010101... and there is no Search function that I can find. Using Google to search for "El Gato version 1.15.2 (119)" produces no useful result. I am wondering indeed if that is the version of the driver or even the software which came with the device...?

But from what he says, I suspect it is one of the gaming devices on that website which appear to have only HDMI and USB ports, not the array of RCA cables on the one you show.

Yes, I think "1.15.2 (119)" is the version of the software used with the El Gato device, not the device itself. I got this from clicking the about icon (the letter "i" in a circle) on the software.