Moving from LightRoom

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NicoleB
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Moving from LightRoom

Post by NicoleB »

Forgive me if this has been asked before, but the search features for the forum are down and web searching is not helping.

I'm considering moving from Lightroom to AfterShot Pro in search of a photo management and RAW editing program that is more friendly to working on multiple computers with the same catalog and images. I'm playing with the trial, and it's different, but seems to do what I need for RAW processing, and the boxcar files should make working on multiple computers fine.

What I can't do, however, is abandon 5 years worth of meticulous hierarchical keywording and edits.

I assume I could export everything currently in Lightroom as a TIFF (doubling my required storage space), as abandoning the original RAW files isn't an option. TIFF exports from Lightroom are significantly inferior to the DNG files and I'd have to refer back to Lightroom to fetch the original editted files when I need them, but at least I could see them in ASP. So... painful, but possible.

But I can find no way to even manually enter hierarchical keywords. Nor can I find a way to import them from Lightroom. Importing as a TIFF imports just the single keywords.

Am I missing something?
  • Is there plugin support for importing from Lightroom, or a plugin for Lightroom to export to ASP, or some strange workaround?
  • Does ASP support hierarchical keywording in the first place?
jknights
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Re: Moving from LightRoom

Post by jknights »

NicoleB wrote:Forgive me if this has been asked before, but the search features for the forum are down and web searching is not helping.

I'm considering moving from Lightroom to AfterShot Pro in search of a photo management and RAW editing program that is more friendly to working on multiple computers with the same catalog and images. I'm playing with the trial, and it's different, but seems to do what I need for RAW processing, and the boxcar files should make working on multiple computers fine.

What I can't do, however, is abandon 5 years worth of meticulous hierarchical keywording and edits.
I use Lightroom as my DAM but I am a long term user of Bibble/Aftershot Pro.

I rename and keyword and index in ASP and as long as you use the /XMP/Use Stanadrd XMP files feature then there is no issue with moving between LR and ASP for keywords and ratings.

I havent used the ASP Catalogs as I didnt like them initially and saw no major reason to change. The small standard xmp files produced by ASP are used for allowing rapid transitioning of keywords and ratings between DAMs but you lose your edits, almost always as the way each software does it is different. ASP produces a filname.RAWtype.xmp file for its edit changes.
I assume I could export everything currently in Lightroom as a TIFF (doubling my required storage space), as abandoning the original RAW files isn't an option. TIFF exports from Lightroom are significantly inferior to the DNG files and I'd have to refer back to Lightroom to fetch the original editted files when I need them, but at least I could see them in ASP. So... painful, but possible.
DNG files are the devils spawn. They are a myth sold by Adobe to tempt people with a something for nothing.
RAW files are the way to go always.
Sorry but people will argue that DNG are great. If the chosen way forward is DNG+RAW then these are bigger than the original RAW so that is a space waste and it you take a 'converted to DNG' route and toss the the RAW file then IMHO you are close to an idiot.

If you need to match you files then you need to keep the old LR instance as a method of reproducing this output but in reality you should be able to reinterpret them in ASP with no issues but it is a lot of extra work.
In your case I would be tempted to export small JPGs from LR and then keep these to use as reference. For high value/lots of work images I might take the TIFF route but like you say typically a TIFF is very large e.g. a 30MB RAW goes to a 120-250MB TIFF after working.

But I can find no way to even manually enter hierarchical keywords. Nor can I find a way to import them from Lightroom. Importing as a TIFF imports just the single keywords.

Am I missing something?
  • Is there plugin support for importing from Lightroom, or a plugin for Lightroom to export to ASP, or some strange workaround?
  • Does ASP support hierarchical keywording in the first place?
I do not think it provides hierarchical support but it does allow import of them to a flattened structure - I think. I havent done this as a test.

Good luck in what you decide but there are plenty of us who frequent the board who can give advice from many (12+) years of experience.
Still learning after all these years!
NicoleB
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Re: Moving from LightRoom

Post by NicoleB »

DNG files are the devils spawn. They are a myth sold by Adobe to tempt people with a something for nothing.
RAW files are the way to go always.
Sorry but people will argue that DNG are great. If the chosen way forward is DNG+RAW then these are bigger than the original RAW so that is a space waste and it you take a 'converted to DNG' route and toss the the RAW file then IMHO you are close to an idiot.
My camera shoots native DNG *as* it's RAW file, or PEF if I prefer. I use DNG because Pentax PEF support is virtually non-existent in the software world until years after the camera has been released.
I do not think it provides hierarchical support but it does allow import of them to a flattened structure - I think. I havent done this as a test.
This is a non-starter for me, then; I need hierarchical keywords. Botanical nomenclature does not lend itself well to a flattened alphabetized list!

Guess I'll check back for ASP version 3 and see how it looks then.


P.S. Thanks for the info!
jknights
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Re: Moving from LightRoom

Post by jknights »

NicoleB wrote:
My camera shoots native DNG *as* it's RAW file, or PEF if I prefer. I use DNG because Pentax PEF support is virtually non-existent in the software world until years after the camera has been released.


I do not think it provides hierarchical support but it does allow import of them to a flattened structure - I think. I havent done this as a test.
This is a non-starter for me, then; I need hierarchical keywords. Botanical nomenclature does not lend itself well to a flattened alphabetized list!

Guess I'll check back for ASP version 3 and see how it looks then.


P.S. Thanks for the info!
Pentax DNG is proper DNG so that is OK.
The Adobe stuff is as I said!

Shame.
I think that you need to download a test install of ASP and try importing one image with keywords into it to test the hierarchical keywords. I understand your needs for taxonomy.
Still learning after all these years!
ferdinand-paris
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Re: Moving from LightRoom

Post by ferdinand-paris »

NicoleB wrote:But I can find no way to even manually enter hierarchical keywords. Nor can I find a way to import them from Lightroom. Importing as a TIFF imports just the single keywords.
Am I missing something?
What you're missing is that Lightroom stores its hierarchical keywords in a non-standard XMP field - XMP:HierarchicalSubject. The normal keywords are stored in XMP:Subject, and for the so-called standard file formats, also in IPTC:Keywords. Lightroom writes the flat keywords into the normal fields when it writes the hierarchical ones to the non-standard field.

I don't know of that much software that will read the XMP:HierarchicalSubject, partly because last I looked, it wasn't part of the official XMP standard. Why not? Perhaps you could ask Adobe.

Jonathan said that he uses Lighroom as his DAM. Windows users have the opportunity to use a real DAM that is fully Lightroom compliant - IMatch 5. Imatch not only fully compatible with Lightroom keywords, but contains much more functionality to manage them than does Lightroom. It's also fully compatible with ASP. Although ASP still won't be able to read your hierarchical keywords, at least you can manage them in a piece of software based on open standards that doesn't float in the cloud.
jknights
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Re: Moving from LightRoom

Post by jknights »

I work on Mac and have also been using PhaseOne Media Pro for my cataloguing as I aim to drop all my Adobe products as soon as possible.
MediaPro does provide hierarchical keywording.

I also use PhaseOne CaptureOne Pro 8.3.2 but I dont find the interface as easy as ASP but then I have only been using it a couple of years since I started using the Fuji X cameras.
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ferdinand-paris
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Re: Moving from LightRoom

Post by ferdinand-paris »

jknights wrote:MediaPro does provide hierarchical keywording.
Is it compatible with Adobe hierarchical keywords? Yes, I know you want to get rid of Adobe, but like it or not they set the standard, even when it's an undocumented standard like this particular one.

Also, is MediaPro still actively developed? I thought Phase One bought it, or perhaps they sold it and bought it back, but I recall reading some question about its development. You'd think that Phase One would want you to use a C1 catalog.
jknights
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Re: Moving from LightRoom

Post by jknights »

ferdinand-paris wrote:
Jonathan said that he uses Lighroom as his DAM. Windows users have the opportunity to use a real DAM that is fully Lightroom compliant - IMatch 5. Imatch not only fully compatible with Lightroom keywords, but contains much more functionality to manage them than does Lightroom. It's also fully compatible with ASP. Although ASP still won't be able to read your hierarchical keywords, at least you can manage them in a piece of software based on open standards that doesn't float in the cloud.
I can certainly agree with that.

iMatch3 and now iMatch5 are in my opinion the 'best' DAM products. LR is a pale weedy thing compared to it for DAM use.
If only I could get Mario to port it to Mac it would be wonderful.
Still learning after all these years!
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